I think there are other methods described by Dr. Dave at the link I posted above.
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Getting the cue on the line of aim
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pj
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I'm not an instructor.
When you're in stance, stroking the cue straight back and forward, you can see the line it's pointing in from the movement in front of you, and can feel your overall proprioception.
(If you weren't swinging straight, it would be less clear.)
The precision of that test depends on your stance. A low snooker stance with four points of contact on the cue (both hands, chin, and chest) would give more information than an upright stance.
Is the test millimeter-perfect? Probably not, until you've developed your skills to a very high level. But that's the nature of the game, the art in the science.
I'm no teacher, so not sure if what I'm going to say will make sense to you or anybody else for that matter.
I shoot right handed. There is a spot, that I can move my hand back and forth at any speed, and it never moves off that straight line.
I call it maximum right away from my body, It is like a glass pane, I cannot move my hand more right. The only way an error in my stroke can be introduced is if I pull my hand towards my body, physically it is impossible for my hand to move more right away from my body.
The steering part can only happen if my vision isn't in alignment with this maximum right or my shooting hand is not in the maximum right position. Either way it looks to me like you said, your vision is not aligned with the cue, and you are not on that maximum right.
WobblyStroke
Well-known member
Yes it is difficult, but trying those techniques I outlined before to preset angle relationships and then having a feel of going straight down with no twists of sideways moves will make it much much easier.
No matter how you end up tackling this issue you are having, it will come down to you having moves built into your preshot routine that will act as set points or anchors as Fran called them. Once you have them, you will learn how they feel, and once you have that down you will know to just get up and start over if the shot doesn't feel right.
WobblyStroke
Well-known member
Interesting. I have not come across anyone using 'maximum right' as a preset or guide before but this falls right in line with the idea of using anchors or presets...maximums are wonderful for this bc ur max wont change so consistency is assured.
Another maximum I really like is max elbow thrust backwards when upright. If I have some slack in my arm or play a couple loose shots I will use this max out in my preshot routine to make sure my arm body relationship is absolutely dead solid and consistent shot to shot the rest of the session. Once the elbow thrust is done you keep that relationship to the body as you get down on your shot. This is along the same lines as the finished stroke preset I outlined as #2 in a post above.
I really liked your explanation in Technique #2 of the other post.
I setup in similar way, my cue goes past CB, then comes the elbow max (pointing up) as I land in the position. This way I'm assured of going through the CB in one motion without slowing down. If my elbow drop comes on power shots, it will happen after contact with CB.
The situation gets more complicated on shots where I cannot do this due to the position of CB. In those situation, most of the time I will slide my grip hand backwards, if I don't do this then on power shots my elbow will drop prior to contact. I can still make the shot most of the time, but now I would be most likely steering. Thinking about it now, I'm not sure why I slide my hand backwards as I think the cue could be held more backwards from the start, perhaps a subconscious decision that goes 50-50 in favor of one or the other.
Haha, weird.
I like the preset aspect of this. Do you shoot side arm?
No, regular arm.
So you stand off to the side and swing across your chest?
Nobody sees perfectly, including professional players. They have adapted visually. My issue with the so-called vision center nonsense is that your physically dominant eye does not change. It's physical. It has to do with the structure of the nerves that extend from both eyes to the brain. Your physically dominant eye will always pull in the information first because that's how it's wired. If the information it pulls in first isn't helpful to you, then find a way to adapt because it's not going to change. No so-called vision center approach will change your dominant eye.
Your best bet ---- and what professional players do --- is to understand what the dominant eye gives you and then learn to adapt and adjust, but ignoring it will do you no good.
"Nobody sees perfectly, including professional players".
this is very interesting information,i didn't know that,so i guess everyone has some optical illusions in pool.
now about the dominant eye, i have a question, when i put the cue center of my chin with the head square to the shot, the cue looks angled (the cue looks like it's coming from the right side of my face and going towards the left from my point of view). even if i put the cue slightly towards my left eye with my head square, the cue still looks a bit angled from right to left.
so does this mean that my right eye pulls in more information since the cue looks like it is coming from the right side of my face when cueing under center chin and therefore is my dominant eye? does this have anything to do with your comment about eye dominance?or only an eye doctor can tell you which is your dominant eye?
Yes, it could be related to eye dominance. It depends on how strong the dominance is. Usually you can test it yourself by doing typical eye dominance tests, where you focus on an object at a distance in a circle, then you close one eye and see if the object moved, then you close the other eye. The object should appear to move when the dominant eye is closed. That means that the dominant eye is controlling your vision. Of course, an ophthalmologist would be able to tell you more.
In some cases, the object moves only slightly, which could indicate that the dominant eye is only slightly dominant. In my case, the object jumps completely out of the circle when I look at it with my recessive eye only which indicates a strong dominant eye.
Regardless of where you place your cue, if you have a strong dominant eye, it will feed your brain what it sees before the recessive eye does. If you shoot without thinking, your cue will naturally pull towards your dominant eye. Fighting it won't do you much good other than tire your eyes and wear you down.
I think Earl Strickland plays pretty great with a severely dominant eye. He made all the necessary aiming adjustments, probably a combination of unconscious and conscious, and is proficient at aiming -- and most importantly, he's not fighting it, as you can see in his stance that he has his cue clearly under his dominant eye.
SSDiver2112
Escott Cues
This video helped me a lot. I vision center is more important than dominant eye. I had found my dominant eye (left), but was still a bit off. This shows you don't want to put your cue under that eye, you want it under the vision center.
i am not an instructor
but you would need someone to tell you or set up a mirror if your nose and cue are pointed in the same direction
since you may "think " you have your chin over the cue and you are square but you are not and your brain is correct in telling you you are going right to left
It's all theory concocted by Dave. The vision center nonsense is not factual. It's just his opinion and nothing more. You should always take that into consideration when viewing or recommending something. As for a pysically dominant eye--- that's factual. You are not in a position to say that it's not as important as Dave's opinion.
BlueRaider
Registered
I spent years going down a rabbit hole of trying to chase perfect visual alignment because I was convinced that was causing misses on long straight-in shots. Ultimately my inconsistency turned out to be imprecise tip placement on the cue ball at address (which meant it was also off-center at impact) and inconsistent grip pressure during my stroke, which further threw my tip out of alignment.
What's funny is that once I improved those flaws, suddenly straight-in shots started looking a lot straighter, too, even though I didn't change my head position. Mental feedback in pool is an interesting thing.
What's funny is that once I improved those flaws, suddenly straight-in shots started looking a lot straighter, too, even though I didn't change my head position. Mental feedback in pool is an interesting thing.
No offense, but isn't this just your opinion? Dave (a recently retired Colorado State professor of engineering) is at least as expert in his field as you are in yours, and I believe he's spent much more time and concentration on this question.
And, as Dave points out, it's the main influence on vision center.
I think "vision center" just means the head position where straight looks straight. Don't you think head position is important?
pj
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SSDiver2112
Escott Cues
First to all I apologize for forgetting to preface with: I am not an instructor
Try debating the issue. Just because my opinion differs from yours does not make yours fact and mine fiction.
Yes, for seasoned players, many have learned to subconsciously adjust for the offset and it just happens. For those that are still learning, they are not able to shoot without thinking so they need to actually aim correctly. There are many different factors affecting a player's ability to aim and shoot accurately. Each factor is weighted differently for each individual. Apply the base fundamentals first and tweak to your personal benefit.
A physically dominant eye is factual. A physically less dominant eye is factual. I think vision is a 3-dimentional blend. I base my opinion on the fact that if your dominant eye was the only factor then there would be no change when you close the other eye. One has dominance not exclusiveness. So it is logical that your vision center would be closer to the dominant eye but not directly under it.
I am left eye dominant. Placing the cue under that eye helped me shoot much straighter, but I wasn't accurately on the line most of the time. Only when I adjusted my position to what I found to be my vision center did my aim and ability to shoot a straight shot get more consistent.
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WobblyStroke
Well-known member
Not as weird as you might think. I often see touring pros sliding their back arm around once already down. Hell, some even use a slip stroke on big stroke shots which is a deliberate slip of the grip back along a motionless cue. Then the grip hand attaches, the cue moves a bit as the back arm is loaded and the final stroke is delivered with effortless power not easily attained by original grip position. But slip stroke aside, a little adjusting and sliding around of the grip hand is actually more common than most would suspect; certainly more so than I expected before looking into it a bit.