Go for 3 fouls?

1

1hit1der

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
http://CueTable.com/P/?@1HbHq1JEis1...econd_consecutive_foul&I_get_ball_in_hand&ZZ@

Had this situation last night in an 8-ball league match. I still have 5 balls on the table and my opponent is down to the 8. He just fouled the second time with the attempted kick diagramed on the second page, giving me ball in hand. I really wanted to play safe and go for the win on 3 fouls, perhaps spurred on by the recent discussion of Larry Nevel doing it. Anyways, my teammate talked me out of it. I just wanted to see what you guys would do and if you were going to play safe, where would it be? I'll tell you what happened later.
 
1hit1der said:
http://CueTable.com/P/?@1HbHq1JEis1...econd_consecutive_foul&I_get_ball_in_hand&ZZ@

Had this situation last night in an 8-ball league match. I still have 5 balls on the table and my opponent is down to the 8. He just fouled the second time with the attempted kick diagramed on the second page, giving me ball in hand. I really wanted to play safe and go for the win on 3 fouls, perhaps spurred on by the recent discussion of Larry Nevel doing it. Anyways, my teammate talked me out of it. I just wanted to see what you guys would do and if you were going to play safe, where would it be? I'll tell you what happened later.
Click to expand...

What was your team mate's rationale for not going for the 3 foul win?

I don't like the 3 foul rule in 8 ball and most places I think don't have it. However, if I was in the situation you described, and the rules permitted it, I would go for the three foul win.
 
I think his biggest point against it was that if my opponent gets lucky and hits the 8, I still have to deal with the 11 ball near the rail. But taking ball in hand, I can line it up straight down the table. Beyond the fact that the runout looks quite simple: 11 up table with follow; 14 side soft; 12 corner; 10 side with follow; 15 side; 8 corner. My biggest problem was that I was playing pretty crappy already, even though I got to the hill for this match, so I knew the run-out wouldn't be as easy as it looked.
 
I agree with your Teammate. First of all, the 3-Foul Rule is BS. Always has been , always will be. Leagues are finally doing away with the rule altogether.
But that's another thread. :)

In your situation, running out is the best play. You have BIH, 5-balls, nothing froze or on the rail. You could start with any of your balls and get out, but the 11 is the best opener.

By changing your thinking to aggressive, but measured play, you will ultimately become a better player. Defense is good, table management/strategy is always paramount, but when faced with your situation it's time to just win by running out. It also puts more pressure on your opponents.

Maybe you aren't comfortable running out from here, and there's nothing wrong with that. But I would still recommend trying to run out, and if you should miss/lose, work on that shot or sequence during practice.

-von
 
1hit1der said:
http://CueTable.com/P/?@1HbHq1JEis1...econd_consecutive_foul&I_get_ball_in_hand&ZZ@

Had this situation last night in an 8-ball league match. I still have 5 balls on the table and my opponent is down to the 8. He just fouled the second time with the attempted kick diagramed on the second page, giving me ball in hand. I really wanted to play safe and go for the win on 3 fouls, perhaps spurred on by the recent discussion of Larry Nevel doing it. Anyways, my teammate talked me out of it. I just wanted to see what you guys would do and if you were going to play safe, where would it be? I'll tell you what happened later.
Click to expand...
Actually the shot you diagrammed would be a foul. Since the eleven is froze, you would have to drive it or the cue ball to another rail.

Tracy
 
1hit1der said:
http://CueTable.com/P/?@1HbHq1JEis1...econd_consecutive_foul&I_get_ball_in_hand&ZZ@

Had this situation last night in an 8-ball league match. I still have 5 balls on the table and my opponent is down to the 8. He just fouled the second time with the attempted kick diagramed on the second page, giving me ball in hand. I really wanted to play safe and go for the win on 3 fouls, perhaps spurred on by the recent discussion of Larry Nevel doing it. Anyways, my teammate talked me out of it. I just wanted to see what you guys would do and if you were going to play safe, where would it be? I'll tell you what happened later.
Click to expand...

If it is how you set it up it looks like a tough safe to exicute, seems like there is a chance for a scratch in the side, or a screw up and sell out, but unless the 11 was an easier shot the run wasn't a lock either. I might have moved the 11 and left him on the bottom rail, there is no cross side bank there, and cutting it up the rail is not an easy option. He'd have no safe with the ball hanging in the side.

Jim<--Would have run out
 
Dead Money said:
I'd say break his spirit and throw in a bit of humiliation and three foul him:)
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That's what I wanted to hear! :) I'd be proud to have you as a teammate.

Anyways, I tried to run, made the 11 and 14 (probably should've called safe on the 14 to force an end rail kick), but missed the 12 leaving a tough cut on the 8. He missed, and then I ran 12, 10, 15, 8 for the victory.

But yeah, I definitely need to get my confidence up for running out a layout like this. It shouldn't have been that tough.
 
risky shooting past the side pocket

VonRhett said:
In your situation, running out is the best play. You have BIH, 5-balls, nothing froze or on the rail. -von
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It certainly appears the 11 is frozen to the rail, and shooting along the rail past the side pocket is always risky. Miss it, and you've sold out.

If you had ball in hand, move the cueball downtable about even with the side pocket. Softly hit the 11 about half-ball (aim for the edge of the 11), just a touch more full, and the cueball will hit the rail and come out even with the eleven. If your opponent does get a hit, you'll have a shot at the 11, 10 or 14. Try practicing that safe, it's easy once you get a little experience with it.

The game is about strategy, and in your case, 3-fouls is part of the strategy. Now, if you made the 11 & 14 and didn't get out, then you have some other skills to work on too, but good job finishing up when you got back.
 
Yes, but he wasn't shooting with the 11 on the rail. When he put him on 2-fouls, he moved the 11 well off the rail. Look on the 2nd page of the diagram to see the ball layout after the 2nd foul. With the 11 an inch or 2 off the rail, it's a very different board.
-von


DougT said:
It certainly appears the 11 is frozen to the rail, and shooting along the rail past the side pocket is always risky. Miss it, and you've sold out.
Click to expand...
 
Well ain't I just one blind dude! Yep, that is a very different board.
Thanks for pointing it out.
 
Last edited:
Two-way shot

Why not go for both? With the 11 sitting where it is in page 2, you can use your ball in hand with your opponent on two fouls to play the 15 off the 11 in the side, stopping the CB dead. This would move the 11 out a bit so it passes the 8, giving you a lot more options in your run-out. If you make the shot, run out. With no problems in the rack, you're just supposed to run these out. If you don't sink the 15, he's left totaly hooked behind the 10, meaning he has to kick to make the hit, and with the 8 frozen, he's quite likely to pick up his 3rd foul. Even if he makes a good hit, 8 times out of 10 he sells out an easy runout for you. And even if you get yourself into trouble in the runout, as long as you have the 10 sitting there, you can always play safe off the 14.

-Andrew
 
1hit1der said:
That's what I wanted to hear! :) I'd be proud to have you as a teammate.

Anyways, I tried to run, made the 11 and 14 (probably should've called safe on the 14 to force an end rail kick), but missed the 12 leaving a tough cut on the 8. He missed, and then I ran 12, 10, 15, 8 for the victory.

But yeah, I definitely need to get my confidence up for running out a layout like this. It shouldn't have been that tough.
Click to expand...


Thanks:D Nice win:)
 
I have to agree with your teammate on this one. With your opponent on two-fouls and the 11-ball in an uncomfortable place, you have play a strong safety. I DO NOT like the idea of a two-way shot in this situation. The way I see it, you either try to run or try to safe. Don't do both because neither will be as good.

If it were me, I'd take my BIH, feather the 12-ball, leaving the cue-ball nudged between the 12-ball and rail. It's an easy shot that you will nail 99 out of 100 times. He'll have to kick the long way to make contact.
 
Run out ...

That's too easy a run out to be trying a 3 foul. We don't play 3 foul in 8 ball around here anyway.

11 in the corner (follow), 14 in the side, 15 in the other side (key is getting the right angle on this ball), 12 in the corner, 10 in the side, 8 ball in the corner.

If you end up with bad angle on the 15, then you can always go with 12, and get shape for 10 or 15 after that.
 
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