Gob of inside.

S

straightline

CPG CBL
Silver Member
Long time ago in a brain fart far away...
One of the things that gave me problems was being thin and too close to balls on the bottom rail. If the ball was makable, I reasoned that inside ingrish might increase the contact speed thereby facilitating the shot without losing the cueball.

Are this am kreck?
 
Uh...do you pack your lunch or do you walk to work?

Just kidding. But I don't understand what you're saying or asking.

Inside spin helps pocket the ball if you hit rail first. And it can slow/brake the cb to keep it on that end of the table. I think that's what you're talking about...??
 
Sorry, turned Chinese temporarily. People here are so literal lol. That was the back story on wondering if inside english increases impact speed on thin cuts. (?)
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Yes, side spin can trade forward speed for sideways speed - if you hit rail first.

pj
chgo
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Yes but I mean directly. As stated, I would often end up thin along the rails and "reasoned" that inside (lots) would help object ball speed without having to turn the ball loose.
Of course more thorough assessment starts me wondering if speed of displacement is the only factor in energy transfer - cut angle notwithstanding.
 
straightline said:
Yes but I mean directly. As stated, I would often end up thin along the rails and "reasoned" that inside (lots) would help object ball speed without having to turn the ball loose.
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straightline said:
Come to think of it, would outside have the reverse effect?
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At the point of contact the spinning CB's surface moves at a right angle to the OB's direction, so I don't think spin can have a direct effect on OB speed.

pj
chgo
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
At the point of contact the spinning CB's surface moves at a right angle to the OB's direction, so I don't think spin can have a direct effect on OB speed.

pj
chgo
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That's as well put as anything I can think of. Still, something about those situations seems to work. Possibilities include the subsequent killing of the ball on the cushion or even just higher stroke speed.
 
straightline said:
That's as well put as anything I can think of. Still, something about those situations seems to work. Possibilities include the subsequent killing of the ball on the cushion or even just higher stroke speed
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I suppose you get a tiny speed boost from the spin-induced throw (you have to overcut slightly with inside). If the shot's long enough swerve might give you a slightly better cut angle. I don't think those add up to much...

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I suppose you get a tiny speed boost from the spin-induced throw (you have to overcut slightly with inside). If the shot's long enough swerve might give you a slightly better cut angle. I don't think those add up to much...

pj
chgo
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So however subtle, there might be a difference? That's what results tell me. Just can't figure it.
 
I just woke up at 10pm from an accidental nap, so don't be too harsh if I'm wrong... I think the inside might make it feel that way... I think it reduces some CIT or cling or something. You also might have been playing with deflection by using a lot of inside, making the ball seem to "swerve" a bit and make cuts thinner than they appeared while aiming. The inside will also "take" on the rail and make the cue ball come back "straighter" than with a natural hit, less likely to scratch if you come back "straight" instead of natural angling around risking scratches. You may have just hit it harder/faster than you would without the spin since you didn't fear a scratch as much.

On a bar box I can make the thinnest of cuts. If the OB is within 1/4" of the cushion (middle diamond) and the CB is straight in line with it, I'll aim almost center ball and punch stroke the piss out of the CB with maximum inside. The deflection makes the shot, almost like a half masse type effect. It's entirely dependent on knowing your cue and what speed to use, but if you can master it, it makes a good proposition shot. This is one of the shots that I found impossible to do with a LD cue. It doesn't work as well with tighter pockets, but it still works decently, just lower chance with tighter pockets. Basically you're playing the shaft deflection to make the cueball swerve out and hit the OB super thin. You can also play with top/middle/bottom on this for different effects.
 
boogieman said:
I just woke up at 10pm from an accidental nap, so don't be too harsh if I'm wrong... I think the inside might make it feel that way... I think it reduces some CIT or cling or something. You also might have been playing with deflection by using a lot of inside, making the ball seem to "swerve" a bit and make cuts thinner than they appeared while aiming. The inside will also "take" on the rail and make the cue ball come back "straighter" than with a natural hit, less likely to scratch if you come back "straight" instead of natural angling around risking scratches. You may have just hit it harder/faster than you would without the spin since you didn't fear a scratch as much.

On a bar box I can make the thinnest of cuts. If the OB is within 1/4" of the cushion (middle diamond) and the CB is straight in line with it, I'll aim almost center ball and punch stroke the piss out of the CB with maximum inside. The deflection makes the shot, almost like a half masse type effect. It's entirely dependent on knowing your cue and what speed to use, but if you can master it, it makes a good proposition shot. This is one of the shots that I found impossible to do with a LD cue. It doesn't work as well with tighter pockets, but it still works decently, just lower chance with tighter pockets. Basically you're playing the shaft deflection to make the cueball swerve out and hit the OB super thin. You can also play with top/middle/bottom on this for different effects.
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Exactly but the specific intention was to hold the cue ball without missing. Granted, at inside of a foot, the max inside can fine the hit better than only aiming for a thin bunt. This is just part of the mystery. lol...
 
straightline said:
Exactly but the specific intention was to hold the cue ball without missing. Granted, at inside of a foot, the max inside can fine the hit better than only aiming for a thin bunt. This is just part of the mystery. lol...
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Let's say you're cutting the OB to the left, meaning you're using left spin (for inside) on the CB. The OB will take on a minute amount of right hand english (gearing). This minute amount of right will widen the angle off a rail, so if the OB glances off the end rail with right spin(on the OB) the rebound angle widens if you should accidentally brush the short rail on the way to the pocket. No idea if it's mathematically correct but the reverse (of running english) off a rail at a shallow angle kind of glances off the rail at a shallow angle rather than biting and tightening the angle. This could also lead to more pocketed balls or a feeling of more speed works. With all things equal using inside on the CB feels like it minimizes errors related to pocketing.

A simple experiment, try pocketing the ball (cutting to the left) with high inside (10-11 on the clock face) then try it with high outside (1-2 on the clock face). Also try it at 8 and 4 on the clock. The difference is pretty crazy in relation to what the OB will do if it brushes the end rail. You can make the shot with all these spins if you make adjustments, and may often have to do so to get shape in game. That said, I personally find the inside shots are much easier to pocket the ball, no idea if it's scientific of just how I like to shoot. My personal favorite is 7 to 9 o'clock. Close to the rail, the draw stays on and becomes follow after the rebound. Playing with this stuff is what makes pool so fun, there's more than one way to skin a cat!
 
My experience is on those shots spin can increase the travel distance of the cue ball by a little depending on angle.
If the inside bites against the rail instead of flowing naturally with it should decrease it some.


straightline said:
Long time ago in a brain fart far away...
One of the things that gave me problems was being thin and too close to balls on the bottom rail. If the ball was makable, I reasoned that inside ingrish might increase the contact speed thereby facilitating the shot without losing the cueball.

Are this am kreck?
Click to expand...
straightline said:
Sorry, turned Chinese temporarily. People here are so literal lol. That was the back story on wondering if inside english increases impact speed on thin cuts. (?)
Click to expand...
 
I believe what's happening is this:

Let's say you hit one of these shots with a speed of 3 on a scale to 10, and you use a ton of inside spin. If the cb hits the ob first, the ob speed will be about proportional to the overlap/fractional hit. So at a cb speed of 3 on a 1/8 ball hit, the cb retains about 7/8 of it's speed, while the ob only takes on about 1/8 of the cb's speed. So the ob speed will be about 0.4 and the cb will leave at about a speed of 2.6. Rough estimates.

If the cb strikes the cushion first, at a speed of 3 with a ton of inside spin, the spin allows the cb to pick up more speed off the cushion, and it also strikes the ob more full. So the cb speed might increase from 3 to 4 or 5 because of the spin off the cushion. The extra speed, combined with the fuller hit on the ob, transfers more speed to the ob. So the ob speed could be 2 or 3 or 4 instead of just 0.4, and the cb leaves the impact at a much slower speed, all depending on how much speed the cb picks up from the spin and how full the hit is when it strikes the ob.
 
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BC21 said:
I believe what's happening is this:

Let's say you hit one of these shots with a speed of 3 on a scale to 10, and you use a ton of inside spin. If the cb hits the ob first, the ob speed will be about proportional to the overlap/fractional hit. So at a cb speed of 3 on a 1/8 ball hit, the cb retains about 7/8 of it's speed, while the ob only takes on about 1/8 of the cb's speed. So the ob speed will be about 0.4 and the cb will leave at about a speed of 2.6. Rough estimates.

If the cb strikes the cushion first, at a speed of 3 with a ton of inside spin, the spin allows the cb to pick up more speed off the cushion, and it also strikes the ob more full. So the cb speed might increase from 3 to 4 or 5 because of the spin off the cushion. The extra speed, combined with the fuller hit on the ob, transfers more speed to the ob. So the ob speed could be 2 or 3 or 4 instead of just 0.4, and the cb leaves the impact at a much slower speed, all depending on how much speed the cb picks up from the spin and how full the hit is when it strikes the ob.
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336Robin said:
My experience is on those shots spin can increase the travel distance of the cue ball by a little depending on angle.
If the inside bites against the rail instead of flowing naturally with it should decrease it some.
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Yes the ball does travel forward and toward the adjacent rail. This can use up a lot of speed/travel in many situations but the mystery is does this add speed to the object ball. The object balls are off the rail so there is no rail assisted propulsion.

PJ says not because the spin is tangent to the object ball and therefore imparts no added impact. I want to agree but consider the angular momentum of the impact. Won't inside grab the ball, slightly prolonging the transfer of energy?
 
straightline said:
Yes the ball does travel forward and toward the adjacent rail. This can use up a lot of speed/travel in many situations but the mystery is does this add speed to the object ball. The object balls are off the rail so there is no rail assisted propulsion.

PJ says not because the spin is tangent to the object ball and therefore imparts no added impact. I want to agree but consider the angular momentum of the impact. Won't inside grab the ball, slightly prolonging the transfer of energy?
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Ah....thought you were talking about thin rail shots. I would say cb spin has very little effect, if any, on ob speed when striking ob first.
 
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