Gold Crown Modification and 12 Point Leveling questions

EIP

New member
I just bought a Gold Crown a couple weeks ago, and I've been scouring this website ever since. Some of my questions have been answered, but some not exactly. The owner said this table had Brunswick cushions and Simonis 660 cloth installed 7 years ago. It actually has K66 Master Speed cushions.

1. I understand K55 is the proper cushion. I’d like to avoid permanently modifying the rails if I can. Is there really a significant difference in how the table responds with K66 cushions if they are installed at “optimum” hight? Is there anyone in Arizona that can do the rail modification properly if I need it done?

2. My table was delivered, but not assembled. It has pins that keep the slate ends aligned with each other. I assume the slates need even support under each slate to avoid stressing the pins. Its only 6mm thick there. I don’t imagine there would be any visible feedback if one side had less support then the other during leveling due to the pins. Additionally the slate may actually be sandstone from what I’ve read, which is even more brittle. The person that moved my table said he uses a "12 point system". How can a 12 point system be used on slate that is pinned as one? Is this not like gluing the seams, then doing a 4 point leveling? Sure wish I could get my pool table working.

Respectfully EP
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Beautiful table with some great pics as well.
It has the figure 8 plate under the rails like the early GC1 however the timber throughout is stained timber, and the GC1 were painted.
Maybe someone has stained it throughout the years.
Also that is Slate, not Brunstone, as it has a gray color where as Brunstone has a brown colour.
Maybe someone can comment.
More pic's please.
Cheers
 
Unless the subrails were heavily modified, the K66 profile is not correct for a Gold Crown and you will most likely be able to tell why once you start hitting balls on it. Who did you buy the table from, who did the work and where are you located? If it were me, I would hire a competent mechanic to install K55 cushions which is the correct profile for the table. It is important to note, modern K55 rubber is slightly different than the K55 profile the table originally came with. The bevel on the subrail needs to be slightly modified to ensure proper nose height and to retain a 50" x 100" playing field. And to gazman's point, Gold Crown I's were originally painted (aprons and pedestals). Pedestals and ball box were painted white and the aprons were available in blue, gold, tangerine or white. It also appears your table is missing the plastic skirts that attach to the aprons. They hide the corner drop pockets on drop pocket tables and the ball return tracks on ball return tables. These were white molded plastic from the factory.

For reference, here is my fully restored Gold Crown I in blue. I did the cosmetic restoration and my mechanic modified the subrails, tightened the pockets (4.125" corners, 4.875" sides) and installed Diamond Black K55 cushions. The table plays better than it looks.

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Thank you for your reply. Its good to know this is actually slate. I was worried that it was the Brunstone. I suspect it has been stained. There is some stain sampling under one of the aprons. Also white primer or paint on the top of the leg assemblies and stretcher. I don't think they use white primer before a clear stain. The aprons have signs of Tangerine color as well. This originally owner may have refinished it to suite his decor,
 
You need to check the rail height to work out if the rails and cushion rubbers have been set up properly.
The correct rail height for the 2 1/4" balls is 36mm from the playing surface to the nose of the cushion with the rails bolted and torqued down.
Hope it helps.
Either way it's a great looking table and I'm quite jealous. lol.
 
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Unless the subrails were heavily modified, the K66 profile is not correct for a Gold Crown and you will most likely be able to tell why once you start hitting balls on it. Who did you buy the table from, who did the work and where are you located? If it were me, I would hire a competent mechanic to install K55 cushions which is the correct profile for the table. It is important to note, modern K55 rubber is slightly different than the K55 profile the table originally came with. The bevel on the subrail needs to be slightly modified to ensure proper nose height and to retain a 50" x 100" playing field. And to gazman's point, Gold Crown I's were originally painted (aprons and pedestals). Pedestals and ball box were painted white and the aprons were available in blue, gold, tangerine or white. It also appears your table is missing the plastic skirts that attach to the aprons. They hide the corner drop pockets on drop pocket tables and the ball return tracks on ball return tables. These were white molded plastic from the factory.

For reference, here is my fully restored Gold Crown I in blue. I did the cosmetic restoration and my mechanic modified the subrails, tightened the pockets (4.125" corners, 4.875" sides) and installed Diamond Black K55 cushions. The table plays better than it looks.

49725546583_f658784cff_b.jpg
That table is stunningly beautiful. Thank you for the great information. It will take me some time to digest all the details, but I can say that the table came with the original balls, cue sticks (bad shape), sales note, plastic skirts that look new - but yellowed, crome bridge and rack hangers, and a lot of really cool Brunswick flyers, and books. I'm not sure if I can use the mans name that I purchased it from, but he I believe was a professional player at some point, and he purchased the table from the estate of Thomas Burros who is credited with developing the 911 telephone system. The guy I bought it from said he could not get in touch with the man that set it up and did the cushions and cloth. He may have past away because 7 years ago he was in his late 60's. Apparently the owner was going to sell it to him, because he said he would buy it if ever the time came. The owner said he was going to send me some more details and photos of Mr. Thomas Burros for my table's archive. His father in law bought the house after he bought the table. Yes, I've been admiring your table, and back story from a far as I've been studying up on this website...Lol I live in Payson, Az. I bout the table from the owner north of Prescott, Az. I feel lucky to have found this Forum, because I have many questions.
 
You need to check the rail height to work out if the rails and cushion rubbers have been set up properly.
The correct rail height for the 2 1/4" balls is 36mm from the playing surface to the nose of the cushion with the rails bolted and torqued down.
Hope it help.
Either way it's a great looking table and I'm quite jealous. lol.
I appreciate that information. It will surely help at least give me a rough idea if i press the rail down and measure it.
 
That table is stunningly beautiful. Thank you for the great information. It will take me some time to digest all the details, but I can say that the table came with the original balls, cue sticks (bad shape), sales note, plastic skirts that look new - but yellowed, crome bridge and rack hangers, and a lot of really cool Brunswick flyers, and books. I'm not sure if I can use the mans name that I purchased it from, but he I believe was a professional player at some point, and he purchased the table from the estate of Thomas Burros who is credited with developing the 911 telephone system. The guy I bought it from said he could not get in touch with the man that set it up and did the cushions and cloth. He may have past away because 7 years ago he was in his late 60's. Apparently the owner was going to sell it to him, because he said he would buy it if ever the time came. The owner said he was going to send me some more details and photos of Mr. Thomas Burros for my table's archive. His father in law bought the house after he bought the table. Yes, I've been admiring your table, and back story from a far as I've been studying up on this website...Lol I live in Payson, Az. I bout the table from the owner north of Prescott, Az. I feel lucky to have found this Forum, because I have many questions.
Thanks!

Interesting back story on your table.

The skirts yellow over time. If they are perfect and just yellowed there is a process toy restorers use with hydrogen peroxide and UV light that removes the discoloration from plastic. Mine had some cracks here and there so I decided to use a high bond primer and paint (spray) them with the same paint I used on the pedestals after I did some repair work. Any pics of the cues? Are they Titlists?

At any rate, I'd hire a qualified mechanic adept at rail work to do the work on your table and strongly suggest using this site to not only ask your questions but to also find a mechanic in your area. I would not trust an installer to touch the rails let alone setup the table.

Best of luck. I look forward to your progress along the way.
 
Thank you for your reply. Its good to know this is actually slate. I was worried that it was the Brunstone. I suspect it has been stained. There is some stain sampling under one of the aprons. Also white primer or paint on the top of the leg assemblies and stretcher. I don't think they use white primer before a clear stain. The aprons have signs of Tangerine color as well. This originally owner may have refinished it to suite his decor,
Nice find. My GCI (my profile pic) has Brunstone and it doesn't worry me in the least.
 
Thanks!

Interesting back story on your table.

The skirts yellow over time. If they are perfect and just yellowed there is a process toy restorers use with hydrogen peroxide and UV light that removes the discoloration from plastic. Mine had some cracks here and there so I decided to use a high bond primer and paint (spray) them with the same paint I used on the pedestals after I did some repair work. Any pics of the cues? Are they Titlists?

At any rate, I'd hire a qualified mechanic adept at rail work to do the work on your table and strongly suggest using this site to not only ask your questions but to also find a mechanic in your area. I would not trust an installer to touch the rails let alone setup the table.

Best of luck. I look forward to your progress along the way.
If I use the skirts I will try that method. May need to do a little research

I'm leaning toward the rail modification. I'm sure a table that plays beautifully is more fun

I believe the cues are just common bar cues of the era. The owner said they're junk. they're straight, and I like them. One I believe is Brazilian rose wood, and the other figured walnut. He also gave me several common mahogany cues.
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You need to check the rail height to work out if the rails and cushion rubbers have been set up properly.
The correct rail height for the 2 1/4" balls is 36mm from the playing surface to the nose of the cushion with the rails bolted and torqued down.
Hope it helps.
Either way it's a great looking table and I'm quite jealous. lol.
I know this thread is dead, but I think I forgot to say thank you for the warm welcome you all gave me. I’m at a road block with my Gold Crown 1 at this time.

Apparently my K-66 cushions where precisely installed at 38 millimeters high, all the way across every rail (i.e. from “apex” where the bumper contacts the ball to playing surface). Although this is not 36 millimeters as you said is the correct hight, I believe the work was done by a “professional”. In fact, the person I bought the table from just said the man who did the work was doing this for decades. I assume all cushions require some compromise or balance between reducing the ball “hop” and having an acceptable amount of “stall” during rebound, but my knowledge is zero. I understand modern K-55 cushions on an unmodified bevel reduces the playing field, and a K-66 can be installed at the wrong levels. I just wonder if a K-66 cushion installed with experience at the “optimal” level is still a significant reduction in performance compared to an original Monarch High Speed cushion? Is it the geometry that is limiting or is it simply less “beefy”. Different brands of cushion can make a big difference from what I read. As many have said, I just want my Gold Crown to play like an original Gold Crown. Unfortunately, I am a perfectionist.

I have not been able to locate the discussion on the pros and cons of altering the bevel. No matter what key words I try in the search engine I can’t find it. I just seam to go down a rabbit hole every time.

I have located and I am about to buy a set of rails for a Gold Crown 3 locally for $250. My intention is to ship, modify, and install those rails rather then permanently modify my original Gold Crown 1 rails. I just don’t know if the mounting holes will line up on my slate. I assume corner castings are a problem. This too is information I can not find no matter how hard I try.

I asked an old table-guy why on earth would they stop making the Monarch High Speed cushion (K-55 with correct bevel) when there are thousands of Gold Crown tables out there, and why no company filled the void for cushions with the correct bevel? He look at me like I was crazy and replied, “ they did, it’s the K-66.”

At this point, the only consolation to this delay is that I’ve decided to carefully sand the legs and stretcher back to bare wood, and restore them closer to stock white, but using a translucent white nitrocellulose lacquer.

Thank you again for your help.

There is no antiroll edge on this table. It is "Brunstone" flat.
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Starrett micrometer reads precisely 38 millimeters across each rail.
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Exactly two inches to apex, although it doesn't look like it in this picture
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Margin of space on the bevel surface just under the cushion - two millimeters. I can feel this margin through the cloth on every rail. Rails have not been modified, and these cushions replaced the originals according to the owner. They are Master Speed K-66 cushions.
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I don't know if the feet have an anodized finish or not, but I must address these marks. I found a pipe fitting that reduces the thread shaft so that I can chuck the foot in a drill press and lightly sand this with maybe 600 grit. I don't know what anodizing involves.

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You can buy a brand new engine for a 1963 Jaguar XKE, but you can’t buy a stinking piece of rubber for a Gold Crown - The “Gold Standard” that embodied the rebirth of billiards world wide.

Thanks!

Interesting back story on your table.

The skirts yellow over time. If they are perfect and just yellowed there is a process toy restorers use with hydrogen peroxide and UV light that removes the discoloration from plastic. Mine had some cracks here and there so I decided to use a high bond primer and paint (spray) them with the same paint I used on the pedestals after I did some repair work. Any pics of the cues? Are they Titlists?

At any rate, I'd hire a qualified mechanic adept at rail work to do the work on your table and strongly suggest using this site to not only ask your questions but to also find a mechanic in your area. I would not trust an installer to touch the rails let alone setup the table.

Best of luck. I look forward to your progress along the way.
Update: As far as I can tell there is no one in my area here in Payson, Arizona accept a semiretired table-guy that doesn't know what I'm "going on" about. I assume I'll need to build a crate and mail my rails to someone who is willing to help. I'm estimating at least $200 shipping. As far as labor, cushions and cloth not clear - that is if I can find someone I can trust. I may need to stick my neck out and let one of the old guys here do the setup. The old guy that moved my table, and almost dropped the slate, said he's maintained, and setup countless Gold Crowns, and he'd give me a deal on the cloth. He flies his own plane regularly to one of his businesses in California, and seams to know what he's talking about when it comes to leveling. Although, I don't know anything about leveling and may never know, because I can not open KingCobra's installation instructions. I don't trust anyone in the valley of Phoenix, Arizona - the nearest big city. Thank you again.
As long as you remember to slide the slates apart instead of lifting them they should not be a problem unless there are other issues with them.
Do you have a better picture of your table? I believe your table has the closest finish that I've seen to my table, and I'm about to refinish the base a semi white color. Additionally, I'm thinking that your cloth is a blue green color?, which I think looks great.
 
The cushion height should be ok. I would not modify the rails before you see how they are playing.
If you have a computer, the slate leveling file can be opened in Firefox or Chrome. You can also use an online viewer such as:
 
I have located and I am about to buy a set of rails for a Gold Crown 3 locally for $250. My intention is to ship, modify, and install those rails rather then permanently modify my original Gold Crown 1 rails. I just don’t know if the mounting holes will line up on my slate. I assume corner castings are a problem. This too is information I can not find no matter how hard I try.






Update: As far as I can tell there is no one in my area here in Payson, Arizona accept a semiretired table-guy that doesn't know what I'm "going on" about. I assume I'll need to build a crate and mail my rails to someone who is willing to help. I'm estimating at least $200 shipping. As far as labor, cushions and cloth not clear - that is if I can find someone I can trust. I may need to stick my neck out and let one of the old guys here do the setup. The old guy that moved my table, and almost dropped the slate, said he's maintained, and setup countless Gold Crowns, and he'd give me a deal on the cloth. He flies his own plane regularly to one of his businesses in California, and seams to know what he's talking about when it comes to leveling. Although, I don't know anything about leveling and may never know, because I can not open KingCobra's installation instructions. I don't trust anyone in the valley of Phoenix, Arizona - the nearest big city. Thank you again.

It looks to me that it already has been stripped, sanded and restained. All GC1's & 2's are painted. Its not in "original" condition, so I would just throw that idea out the window. <----- IMO not trying to be harsh or rude.

If you want it to play "perfect": get the rail modification done.
Jack Zimmerman
‪(812) 756-2899‬ Is who I use for ALL sub rail rebuilds. He is an excellent wood worker and mechanic. Gentleman to deal with and you can trust him 100%, no doubts. He will complete the job on time and ships when he says he is going to.

OR

Brunswick Superspeeds will "fit" they wont be perfect(changes the tables playing surface by 1/4" in each direction), but, installed correctly you will still get 4 long table rails back and forth and will still bank nicely. Many on here will argue to the death that this is "incorrect" but none of them can provide quantifiable information on why. Every tables diamond system is a lil different, so adjustment is required from table to table no matter what.

I have zero issues with the ball hopping or biting under the rail. I have also had a bunch of sets redone with new subrails and they play a bit better ( can get more than 4.5 table lengths), but, it does not mean doing it the other way makes the table play terrible. Now, the wrong guy installing them, can definitely cause hopping or biting.

AND

Gold Crown 3 rails will not work with your aprons. FInd another set of GC1 rails?? I am not sure why you wont get yours modified, it will not hurt the value of the table.


As for the "anodization" stuff. Its expensive. I have all the metal powdercoated.

Good luck to you on your project. If you have more questions, fire away and I am sure you will get answers on here.

Keep us all posted on your progress and of course OUTCOME! :)

TFT
 
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