Good Things Vs Bad Things.

[jasper]

GOOD THINGS:
#1 - The IPT actually started up even though many said it wouldn't.

#2 - $6,375,000 prize money won so far.

#3 - Great events that cost the IPT over $700,000 to produce.

#4 - Live television coverage on Eurosport.

#5 - Prime time on VERSUS, by all accounts,very successful.

#6 - Incredible website with live coverage of IPT tournaments and archived events, player profiles / stats etc. (just imagine what it cost to create and maintain this website.)

#7 - The IPT has given us all something to discuss on AZB !

BAD THING:
#1 - Players not paid their winnings from the World Open yet.

Hmmm......Although the players have not been paid yet, the good still outweighs the bad.
The IPT says that the players will be paid soon and that the Chicago Tournament is on schedule.
I for one chose to believe them based on all the good things they have done so far and the fact that things still seem to be moving full steam ahead with the TC qualifiers in full swing. Tickets for Chicago are on sale on their website. Their website is constantly being updated.
I know that flights and rooms are being booked for players that won the TC qualifers so far.

None of us know what the holdup is with the payments.
Maybe there REALLY is a good reason for the delay. Hopefully the players will get all of the details for the delay when they get paid. They are the ones that should be concerned as to the details (NOT US)
All I am suggesting is that based on what I have just outlined, we should give the IPT the benifit of the doubt.
Lets wait and see if the players get paid before we start saying the IPT is finished.
Remember, a delay in payment is totally different than a non payment.

Of course, if the players never get paid, then all of those good things that the IPT has done will be for nothing....................
All the time, energy, money, planning, scheduling tournaments, finding sponsors, negotiating tv coverge, etc.
I find it very hard to believe that with everything that has been done to create the IPT that it could be dead 2nd big tournament in.

I for one see great things coming.
Just my take on things.

 

[Timberly]

Remember, a delay in payment is totally different than a non payment.

Of course, if the players never get paid, then all of those good things that the IPT has done will be for nothing....................

What is your timeline? How much time has to go by before something goes from a "delay" to non payment? Believe me, I'm as hopeful as anyone that the players get their checks. I'm just curious as to where you draw the line...how long before delay turns into non payment? Thanks

 

[jasper]

What is your timeline? How much time has to go by before something goes from a "delay" to non payment? Believe me, I'm as hopeful as anyone that the players get their checks. I'm just curious as to where you draw the line...how long before delay turns into non payment? Thanks

Thats a good question.
Many people in this forum would have said that since the players didn't get their checks on Sunday (the last day of the tournament) that would be considered non-payment. Not me.
I think non-payment would be if the IPT says "SORRY NO MONEY FOR YOU"
or "WE HAVE NO MONEY TO PAY YOU" or "WE DON'T WANT TO PAY YOU"
So far this is NOT the case. The IPT has maintained all along that they have every intention to pay the full prize fund for the World Open Tournament.
How long does one wait on promises to pay before it clearly becomes a non-payment ??
I don't know, but, if I were a player on the IPT I would probably consider it a non-payment if not paid by the start of the Chicago tournament.

 

[jasper]

If any one wants to add to my good and bad list, please do.
I'd love to see what I may have missed.

 

[jay helfert]

GOOD THINGS:
#1 - The IPT actually started up even though many said it wouldn't.

#2 - $6,375,000 prize money won so far.

#3 - Great events that cost the IPT over $700,000 to produce.

#4 - Live television coverage on Eurosport.

#5 - Prime time on VERSUS, by all accounts,very successful.

#6 - Incredible website with live coverage of IPT tournaments and archived events, player profiles / stats etc. (just imagine what it cost to create and maintain this website.)

#7 - The IPT has given us all something to discuss on AZB !

BAD THING:
#1 - Players not paid their winnings from the World Open yet.

Hmmm......Although the players have not been paid yet, the good still outweighs the bad.
The IPT says that the players will be paid soon and that the Chicago Tournament is on schedule.
I for one chose to believe them based on all the good things they have done so far and the fact that things still seem to be moving full steam ahead with the TC qualifiers in full swing. Tickets for Chicago are on sale on their website. Their website is constantly being updated.
I know that flights and rooms are being booked for players that won the TC qualifers so far.

None of us know what the holdup is with the payments.
Maybe there REALLY is a good reason for the delay. Hopefully the players will get all of the details for the delay when they get paid. They are the ones that should be concerned as to the details (NOT US)
All I am suggesting is that based on what I have just outlined, we should give the IPT the benifit of the doubt.
Lets wait and see if the players get paid before we start saying the IPT is finished.
Remember, a delay in payment is totally different than a non payment.

Of course, if the players never get paid, then all of those good things that the IPT has done will be for nothing....................
All the time, energy, money, planning, scheduling tournaments, finding sponsors, negotiating tv coverge, etc.
I find it very hard to believe that with everything that has been done to create the IPT that it could be dead 2nd big tournament in.

I for one see great things coming.
Just my take on things.

#2. The prize money is off by a small margin....$3,000,000. Or maybe you count I.O.U.'s. Mighty generous of you Deno, excuse me Jasper. It just sounds like something Deno would say. And I'm referring to all of the above malarkey.

 

[BlackDragon]

add to list of bad thingz : kt is invisible and elvis has left the building.

 

[jasper]

#2. The prize money is off by a small margin....$3,000,000. Or maybe you count I.O.U.'s. Mighty generous of you Deno, excuse me Jasper. It just sounds like something Deno would say. And I'm referring to all of the above malarkey.

I don't think any of what I said was malarkey at all.
It's all fact.
Even the $6,375,000 WON so far. $3,375,000 of which has already been PAID out is factual.
It's not my intention to create "malarkey" out of nothing.
I just think it's unfair not to give the IPT a chance to do what they say are going to do after all that they have invested.
They say the players will be paid soon, they say the Chicago tournament is on schedule, they say the 2007 season is being scheduled, they say tour card players will receive $100,000 minimun next year.
So I guess it all comes down to this.....either you believe them that this WILL happen, or you believe that they have good intentions and will try to make this happen but fail to do so, or you believe that they are outright in your face liers and have no intention and /or means to make this happen.
Everyone will choose for themselves which scenario to believe.
I believe that the IPT will do what they say. They WILL make it happen.
I don't consider myself a fool. I base my opinion on the facts as I see them.
I see that they know how to get things done. They have put on some great tournaments. They have a great staff working hard to make things happen. Hey, they managed to get pool on prime time T.V.
The only negative thing so far is the delay in prize money. I understand why some of the players would be upset waiting for their money, I would be too, but if it is paid soon and a good reason for the delay is forthcoming, there will be no reason to think that the IPT will crash and burn.
If my opinion malarkey, I am truly sorry.
Thanks for the compliment when you said I sound like Deno.
He's a straight shooter with integrity and I certainly don't mind being compaired to him.
Again, just the way I see it.

 

[nineballpaul]

Vegas not completely paid out.

You are assunimng everyone in Vegas got paid. Not true. Sponsors have not bveen paid their 10%. Ten percent was taken from all players in Vegas who were sponsored by someone under the rules set forth by the IPT. They still owe me $1,000 (for Sam Monday ). I don't know whats going on with the IPT but there is a lot in question. That's all I have to say.

 

[Dr. Dissent]

I don't think any of what I said was malarkey at all.
It's all fact.
Even the $6,375,000 WON so far. $3,375,000 of which has already been PAID out is factual.
It's not my intention to create "malarkey" out of nothing.
I just think it's unfair not to give the IPT a chance to do what they say are going to do after all that they have invested.
They say the players will be paid soon, they say the Chicago tournament is on schedule, they say the 2007 season is being scheduled, they say tour card players will receive $100,000 minimun next year.
So I guess it all comes down to this.....either you believe them that this WILL happen, or you believe that they have good intentions and will try to make this happen but fail to do so, or you believe that they are outright in your face liers and have no intention and /or means to make this happen.
Everyone will choose for themselves which scenario to believe.
I believe that the IPT will do what they say. They WILL make it happen.
I don't consider myself a fool. I base my opinion on the facts as I see them.
I see that they know how to get things done. They have put on some great tournaments. They have a great staff working hard to make things happen. Hey, they managed to get pool on prime time T.V.
The only negative thing so far is the delay in prize money. I understand why some of the players would be upset waiting for their money, I would be too, but if it is paid soon and a good reason for the delay is forthcoming, there will be no reason to think that the IPT will crash and burn.
If my opinion malarkey, I am truly sorry.
Thanks for the compliment when you said I sound like Deno.
He's a straight shooter with integrity and I certainly don't mind being compaired to him.
Again, just the way I see it.

Yeah, they really know how to get things done. More than 30 days without payment. 3 million dollars up in the air. That's a lot of money but hey, they have done so many good things that we should really all forget about the money......

Have you read Deno's remarks on page 38, 5th paragraph, Inside Pool Magazine - October 2006?

Deno says: ...we start our matches on time. That sounds like a small thing but most tournaments are run sort of willy-nilly. We also pay our players on time. Many players tell me that they are still owed money from promoters. That will never happen here. We jus't don't operate that way. Every aspect of our tournaments will run perfectly because I will not accept anything less. I want perfection, and my talented staff does as well.

He also says: "Treat the players with respect. Be clear about what's expected of them, and in return they will respect you and they will abide by your decisions." Has Deno and KT shown any respect to the players?

So where is all the perfection and the respect Deno touted so much with that article?

Should we really believe the IPT will pay the debt?

 

[ribdoner]

JASPER

Interesting spinich---hope it just makes me ill and doesn't kill.

BTW....if your not an IPT employee you should be.

 

[jasper]

JASPER

Interesting spinich---hope it just makes me ill and doesn't kill.

BTW....if your not an IPT employee you should be.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

 

[jasper]

Yeah, they really know how to get things done. More than 30 days without payment. 3 million dollars up in the air. That's a lot of money but hey, they have done so many good things that we should really all forget about the money......

Have you read Deno's remarks on page 38, 5th paragraph, Inside Pool Magazine - October 2006?

Deno says: ...we start our matches on time. That sounds like a small thing but most tournaments are run sort of willy-nilly. We also pay our players on time. Many players tell me that they are still owed money from promoters. That will never happen here. We jus't don't operate that way. Every aspect of our tournaments will run perfectly because I will not accept anything less. I want perfection, and my talented staff does as well.

He also says: "Treat the players with respect. Be clear about what's expected of them, and in return they will respect you and they will abide by your decisions." Has Deno and KT shown any respect to the players?

So where is all the perfection and the respect Deno touted so much with that article?

Should we really believe the IPT will pay the debt?

Instead of trashing my opinion, why don't you share your opinion of what you think you know will happen.
Do you think the players will ever be paid ??
Do you think that the Chicago tournament happen ??
Do you think that the 2007 season will happen ??
I think I know what your answers will be, but lets here it from you.
Then we will see who's right.
I say yes to all three........and you ??????????

 

[jay helfert]

Instead of trashing my opinion, why don't you share your opinion of what you think you know will happen.
Do you think the players will ever be paid ??
Do you think that the Chicago tournament happen ??
Do you think that the 2007 season will happen ??
I think I know what your answers will be, but lets here it from you.
Then we will see who's right.
I say yes to all three........and you ??????????

I think the tournament ended on September 10, 2006. I think today is October 13, 2006. I think no one got paid yet.

If you see anything wrong here, please let me know Jaspers.

 

[Jimk]

Instead of trashing my opinion, why don't you share your opinion of what you think you know will happen.
Do you think the players will ever be paid ??
Do you think that the Chicago tournament happen ??
Do you think that the 2007 season will happen ??
I think I know what your answers will be, but lets here it from you.
Then we will see who's right.
I say yes to all three........and you ??????????

If I had to bet, I would bet the players won't get paid and there will be no Chicago tournament. I think most everyone is hoping the IPT will make it. Your optimism is admirable.

 

[memikey]

GOOD THINGS.....

.....#4 - Live television coverage on Eurosport.

Well we certainly got a fanfared ANNOUNCEMENT that "all rounds of all IPT events will be shown live on Eurosport" and we certainly got live coverage of The NA Open.........which gives your above N0 4 a veneer of accuracy.What we got then was intended live coverage of The World Open being dropped by Eurosport like a hot potato.It didn't happen.I get no impression that those facts are what you are actually trying to convey from the above phrase.Perhaps you assume nobody will question it but if anyone does you will of course say...."Well we did get live coverage on Eurosport".......therein lies the beauty of spin.....that's more Kevin Trudeau'ish than Kevin Trudeau,you definitely may have a future with them

Remember now......they said "live coverage of all rounds of all IPT events".....How much live coverage of the forthcoming Chicago event is currently scheduled by Eurosport and how much live coverage do you think will happen?

Loudly fanfared announcements of something going to happen followed by it not happening and then a few weeks later some retrospective stabs at pretending it did happen or will happen.......does any of that ring any bells?

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

If the Chicago tournament does take place, they should have a large movie style fresh popcorn machine there. Some of us are becoming ADDICTED to popcorn.

Doug
( I fell asleep while eating popcorn last night and woke up with a colonel in my bed )







( I meant kernel )

 

[jjinfla]

If the Chicago tournament does take place, they should have a large movie style fresh popcorn machine there. Some of us are becoming ADDICTED to popcorn.

Doug
( I fell asleep while eating popcorn last night and woke up with a colonel in my bed )
( I meant kernel )

Nick Varner?

 

[Timberly]

They say the players will be paid soon, they say the Chicago tournament is on schedule, they say the 2007 season is being scheduled, they say tour card players will receive $100,000 minimun next year.

They said the players would get paid after each round & they didn’t.
They said the players would get paid on the last day of the tourney & they didn’t
They said numerous times the checks were in the mail & they weren’t.
Actions speak louder than words

So I guess it all comes down to this.....either you believe them that this WILL happen, or you believe that they have good intentions and will try to make this happen but fail to do so, or you believe that they are outright in your face liers and have no intention and /or means to make this happen.

They outright, in your face lied to the players that were able to reach them about the checks…. Every time.

I believe that the IPT will do what they say. They WILL make it happen.

Hope they don’t let you down like they have the others that have believed in them up until this point.

I don't consider myself a fool. I base my opinion on the facts as I see them.

I too base my opinions on facts as best as I can (what little facts we get from the IPT). I’m just curious…. Do you wear glasses? I personally don’t need glasses, I’m blessed with good eye sight and as I see it, the IPT has lied numerous times and the players have yet to be paid… that’s the facts as I see them.

I see that they know how to get things done. They have put on some great tournaments.

Yes, three tournaments.. In the 1st one, less than half of the card holders were allowed to play but told they had to be there for the whole week or lose their card.

The 2nd tournament… not too bad except for the shady draw, inconsistent rules, discrepancies from the ref’s, finding out they wouldn’t be paid after every round as they were told at the 1st one but at the end of the tournament, and Mark Trainer.

The 3rd one…. This is where their ineptness really came to light. They should’ve used World standardized rules but they just had to show everyone up and be “better”. LOL, enter players crawling all over the table. (something else I wish I could share but simply cannot at this time), and last but certainly not least, this is the one where they told the players on the last day that they wouldn’t get paid that day because the staff made a mistake and didn’t check sat del so fedex didn’t get the checks there.

Hey, they managed to get pool on prime time.

On a station that’s viewed less than ESPN on ESPN’s worst day.

The only negative thing so far is the delay in prize money.

So you don’t think all the lies from the players being told they’ll be paid after every round to the staff didn’t check sat del, to they’re making sure the IRS paperwork is done, and that they’re in the mail tomorrow are bad things? You don’t think lying to people and then being completely silent for a month is bad?

He's a straight shooter with integrity and I certainly don't mind being compaired to him.

I think all the players that he looks down upon and treats as if they’re not worthy of his respect, and all the ones that he personally lied to and told that the checks were either in the mail or were going to be in the mail, would beg to differ.

If you aren’t trolling on behalf of someone at the IPT then I just won the lottery and miraculously turned into a supermodel.

 

[Str8PoolMan]

They said the players would get paid after each round & they didn’t.
They said the players would get paid on the last day of the tourney & they didn’t
They said numerous times the checks were in the mail & they weren’t.
Actions speak louder than words


They outright, in your face lied to the players that were able to reach them about the checks…. Every time.


Hope they don’t let you down like they have the others that have believed in them up until this point.


I too base my opinions on facts as best as I can (what little facts we get from the IPT). I’m just curious…. Do you wear glasses? I personally don’t need glasses, I’m blessed with good eye sight and as I see it, the IPT has lied numerous times and the players have yet to be paid… that’s the facts as I see them.


Yes, three tournaments.. In the 1st one, less than half of the card holders were allowed to play but told they had to be there for the whole week or lose their card.

The 2nd tournament… not too bad except for the shady draw, inconsistent rules, discrepancies from the ref’s, finding out they wouldn’t be paid after every round as they were told at the 1st one but at the end of the tournament, and Mark Trainer.

The 3rd one…. This is where their ineptness really came to light. They should’ve used World standardized rules but they just had to show everyone up and be “better”. LOL, enter players crawling all over the table. (something else I wish I could share but simply cannot at this time), and last but certainly not least, this is the one where they told the players on the last day that they wouldn’t get paid that day because the staff made a mistake and didn’t check sat del so fedex didn’t get the checks there.


On a station that’s viewed less than ESPN on ESPN’s worst day.


So you don’t think all the lies from the players being told they’ll be paid after every round to the staff didn’t check sat del, to they’re making sure the IRS paperwork is done, and that they’re in the mail tomorrow are bad things? You don’t think lying to people and then being completely silent for a month is bad?


I think all the players that he looks down upon and treats as if they’re not worthy of his respect, and all the ones that he personally lied to and told that the checks were either in the mail or were going to be in the mail, would beg to differ.

If you aren’t trolling on behalf of someone at the IPT then I just won the lottery and miraculously turned into a supermodel.

You missed a couple of things:

1) After all the players were forced, at their own expense, to attend a tournament in which they were not playing (KOTH) and had to shill for the IPT, the 2006 "Tour" was postponed for 6 months (the 1st event was originally scheduled for the last week in Jan.) because, we were told, "we forgot it was Super Bowl week", followed by "There has been so much interest in the IPT since the KOTH that everyone wants to host an event. So we are re-examining venues and sponsors. As well as all the major networks wanting to show IPT coverage."

2) The London event was cancelled due to "problems with the venue" or some other nonsense and the "inability to reschedule an event of this magnitude on such short notice." Despite the fact that "everyone" is just begging to host an IPT event. Even though the average pool player has never heard of it.

Perhaps we, the devotees of the game of billiards, would be more inclined to give the IPT the "benefit of the doubt" if they didn't keep constantly changing their story and blaming others (Fedex, IRS, Prophets of Doom) for their ineptitude.

 

[Marvel]

Yes, three tournaments.. In the 1st one, less than half of the card holders were allowed to play but told they had to be there for the whole week or lose their card.

.

This is not actually true.

Some players didn't show up at all for reasonable excuses, and all others, who asked permission to leave from Orlando after players meeting and some photo shooting etc.. were allowed to leave also.
So no losing tour card for those reasons.




Other things what you listed were probably true, but why searching and listing only bad things? Even from KOTH and Vegas?

What do you think Legend's like Lou Butera and Ray Martin think about KOTH? Or Efren? Or Mike"The Mouth"Siegel?

Or Thorsten + all other players from Vegas?

Also many spectators praised those events + thousands of people (probably billions) watching it from TV..

It's said many times that mistakes has been made, and there will be even more, as nobody's perfect and IPT especially, as it's like a ship, which is put to the sea without finishing all the construction.

I didn't read Jaspers post, but the delay of the checks is only reason to really be concerned IMHO. All other complaints are unneccessary, but of course there can be discussion about these smaller mistakes to be corrected.
KOTH and Vegas were by far two of the biggest and best organized tournaments in the history of Pool, and that's not even IMHO anymore, that's a general opinion, most likely a fact, I don't know if Ralph Greenleaf would agree.

I'm sure we can find imperfections even from Abraham Lincoln, but why do that? I rather have him as my hero, because of all the good qualities in him.


If the checks will never arrive, or some worse things will happen in the future, that's a reason to stand up and urge some answers and justice naturally.



I wished Abraham Lincoln would re-incarnate and organize a pool tour.

Meanwhile, I try to cope with the reality and look for the good things in it.

If the cheks will not arrive, that's another story then..