Grady vs Charlie Williams 14.1 Grudge Match

[enzo]

cw cueball movement

against my better judgement, i must add that i feel charlie williams moves the cueball a little better than a strong b player. has anyone else noticed this? for how strong he plays i just feel his cueball is very weak compared to other pros. he never misses a ball, and of course he's world class, but his cueball movement is hideous, especially considering he evidentely makes very accurate hits on the object ball. an instroke grady will rob cw in a long 14.1 match, but i must say i haven't seen grady play for about 6 or 7 years now, but back then he was playing plenty good enough to take cw.

 

[cuetechasaurus]

You don't become a pro without excellent cueball control. Charlie is a shotmaker, and he doesn't lack in his cueball control. He has won major events before, and you don't win events like that by getting out of line every other shot. I've seen him play about 5 times, and each time he played very well, and his cueball was on a string. I think you haven't even seen him play very often and you just want to knock the guy because of personal reasons. Charlie is a great guy, and Grady is too. Grady is my favorite commentator, and Charlie is just trying to help pool and make a living. Its sad they have their differences, but nobody goes thru life without having at least one big adversary.

 

[frankncali]

Hey Steve,
I'd like to know who those six guys are in South Dakota or Wyoming. You find me one hundred ball runner in either of those states and dinners on me. Outside of the Northeast, 14.1 is barely played anymore. Oh, maybe a few little pockets here and there, but mighty few.
Being from the N.Y.C. area maybe you think everyone is on New York time and dime. 14.1 is not quite dead yet, but it is on the endangered species list. Thanks to Bob Jewett and his innovative event in Louisville and Charlie Williams and the Dragon Promotions tourney, 14.1 may be getting a little CPR.
I would probably agree that an invitational event is the way to go. Leaving room for eight or more to qualify in a preliminary event would only enhance the event.
I'm sure Grady would still be competitive if given the opportunity to play.
He hasn't lost that much in his game, and he could still spring an upset of a top player. Grady is one of those players that just when you overlook him, he snaps someone off. If you ever play him (even 14.1) you might find out.
He sliced and diced me a time or two.

I think he was mentioning averages of only 6 or so per state. Florida, California, Ohio and the NE would make up some of the difference.

However I would figure on Shane Van Boeing being capable of running a 100. Where is Lee Heuwagen from? Shane is from South Dakota I believe.

Not real sure about Wyoming but theres always guys that come out of nowhere and play great. I am hoping that the IPT spurs a few of these
guys to pop up seemingly from nowhere. It would be good for the tour and the sport.

 

[Steve Lipsky]

As I see that frankncali has just responded, yes, I was talking averages. I just did a mental count in my head (in less than two minutes) and came up with 21 names in NYC/Long Island alone. That is not counting Zuglan, Hatch, and the rest of the upstate boys.

I am also counting virtually every pro player in the number, even though I don't know for sure they have done it.

I remember an ooooooooold post on RSB, where someone casually mentioned there were about 100 players in the Chicago area that could run a hundred. Someone (may have been me) called him on it, and sure as anything, the guy rattled off a list of about 100 names. I didn't know most of them, so I couldn't verify it, but is a guy really going to just make up names for a list like that?

And that's just the US, Jay. 14.1 is very popular in Europe, and those guys are really making new strides in the game. I couldn't even venture a guess as to how many Europeans are capable of running one hundred balls.

Finally, though, you may have missed my point. In no way whatsoever was I slamming Grady. I respect the hell out of him, and you won't find any posts by me that say anything different. In fact, I said it was a shame that Kevin Trudeau did not consider Grady a Hall-of-Famer (with the $30k guarantee). The only reason Grady is not in the HOF is because of his differences with the BCA; KT should have realized that and included him somehow.

- Steve

 

[jjinfla]

Who will win more money in July when they play 8-ball - Charlie or Grady?

Jake

 

[PROG8R]

where is lee from?

I think he was mentioning averages of only 6 or so per state. Florida, California, Ohio and the NE would make up some of the difference.

However I would figure on Shane Van Boeing being capable of running a 100. Where is Lee Heuwagen from? Shane is from South Dakota I believe.

Not real sure about Wyoming but theres always guys that come out of nowhere and play great. I am hoping that the IPT spurs a few of these
guys to pop up seemingly from nowhere. It would be good for the tour and the sport.

Lee Heuwagen is from the Wisconsin area. He used to play in the WIBCA all the time. Around the same time that Larry Nevel did.

 

[cuesrus]

Arnold Palmer doesn't have to qualify

Grady, I know nothing of the politics involved or what assumptions must be satisfied to host a recognized “World Championship” but as a fan I think 14.1 is a perfect example of a game that should welcome some of the champions of your vintage. Possibly the high runs may not be as prevalent as at one time in your career but you and many of your contemporaries may play in a style that some can learn from picking intelligent patterns and when to play safe etc. Some of the younger players as they may make astounding runs do so due to a greater extent on raw firepower, which is fun to watch but both approaches have their place in a good spectacle.

On another note I for one really appreciate your kindness in taking time and spending time in the AZ room a few weeks ago. You have been very generous with your knowledge now as in the past, I was fortunate to get a lesson from you a few years ago when you came to Anchorage and many of those things I still think of whenever I play.

thanks

Excellent post Breakup. I agree with your points 100%.

Arnold Palmer, Jack Nicklaus and the golf greats are allowed to play in major tournaments as being former champions. So what if they shoot in the 80's or 90's, it is always fun to watch a legend perform. They will always be good for that one or two amazing shots that show their past greatness.
Pool is like golf in that you are always learning. Young players can learn a lot from watching Grady's pattern play. Even if he doesn't pocket everything he sees.
Remember, last I heard, we are all getting older. Charlie W will be an old timer at some point and he will ultimately understand Grady's point of view. He will want that respect from the younger crowd, then=
"What goes around comes around!"

Rob

 

[jnav447]

You don't become a pro without excellent cueball control. Charlie is a shotmaker, and he doesn't lack in his cueball control. He has won major events before, and you don't win events like that by getting out of line every other shot. I've seen him play about 5 times, and each time he played very well, and his cueball was on a string. I think you haven't even seen him play very often and you just want to knock the guy because of personal reasons. Charlie is a great guy, and Grady is too. Grady is my favorite commentator, and Charlie is just trying to help pool and make a living. Its sad they have their differences, but nobody goes thru life without having at least one big adversary.

Amen (sorry, saurus..say that 3 times real fast..I can't indulge your quest for bad rep). I hung out in the same room with Charlie for 2 or 3 years, saw all his matchups, tournements, going from 1-pocket novice to accomplished player in a month, teaching (for free), and he absolutely does not deserve the ill will he receives or the slights to his game by people who have only seen him play on TV or at a couple of tournements. He's a classy, super-intelligent young man with extraordinary pool talent and love of pool, started a much-needed pro tour when nobody else wanted to run it and all he has received is grief from all sides. Charlie, those of us who know you are still in your corner - good luck with the 14.1 tournement. Jeff.

 

[Southpaw]

In order for this grudge match to happen, you would first have to get Grady to sign an agreement to actually finish the match as discussed so that he doesnt back out like he did against B.B. in Athens, Ga. and second, Charlie Williams would want to charge and addmission fee for spectators whereas he would receive 90% of the money and the establishment that held this match would get the other 10%. But, it doesnt matter if this match happens or not, because anyone can go to the circus to watch clowns whenever they want to.

Southpaw

 

[jnav447]

In order for this grudge match to happen, you would first have to get Grady to sign an agreement to actually finish the match as discussed so that he doesnt back out like he did against B.B. in Athens, Ga. and second, Charlie Williams would want to charge and addmission fee for spectators whereas he would receive 90% of the money and the establishment that held this match would get the other 10%. But, it doesnt matter if this match happens or not, because anyone can go to the circus to watch clowns whenever they want to.

Southpaw

I see your point. Why would any of us want to waste our time watching two great players who have had a positive impact on our game when, if we just wait, we might have a chance to observe the HOF-bound Southpaw display his wares. I can't speak for the others, but I'm sure waiting with baited breath.

 

[McKinneyMiner]

I'd like to know who those six guys are in South Dakota or Wyoming. You find me one hundred ball runner in either of those states and dinners on me.

Well Jay, I don't know if I'll ever run into you somewhere, but dinner's on you if we do.

Pete Trujillo in Wyoming is a 100 ball runner.

 

[Jerry OC]

Well Jay, I don't know if I'll ever run into you somewhere, but dinner's on you if we do.

Pete Trujillo in Wyoming is a 100 ball runner.

I know Pete and you can always get action when going through Cheyenne. I'll see Jay tomorrow in Bellflower, I can cash in on the dinner for you.

 

[Southpaw]

I see your point. Why would any of us want to waste our time watching two great players who have had a positive impact on our game when, if we just wait, we might have a chance to observe the HOF-bound Southpaw display his wares. I can't speak for the others, but I'm sure waiting with baited breath.

Sorry to rain on your parade about these two mentors of yours....just speaking the truth based on facts. But, then again, I guess the truth hurts sometimes.

Southpaw