Handicapping Software?

Marie's husband

Marie's husband

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Ok, here is the situation, I was looking at having a few tournaments in my local area. I have lived here for around 22 years and know most all of the players in the area and could probably be pretty spot on in deciding what ability level they are. Since this is going to be a completely new thing, itinially I feel I can make it work, but statistics is the way to go for a more accurate handicap for the future in my opinion.

I was looking at handicapping or gauging a persons ability in 8 ball and 9 ball differently. I dont want to have any type of point spots or ball spots, because I dont want players to have to track points while playing or have to explain each time what "getting the 8" means. I just would like to give game spots. For example, ability level 7 playing a 4, race to 7 for the 7 and 4 for the 4.

I was just wondering if anyone had any information on Software that they have used to track and handicap players?

Things that would be nice to have within the program.

1. a player can see historically, who all he has played and what ability level they are and what the outcome was.
2. a player can see his overall win loss percetage.
3. a player can see his match win loss percentage against all the different ability levels.
4. a player can see his break and run percentage
5. Administrator can see the overall win loss percentage between all skill levels.
6. Administrator can see when a player is close to moving to the next skill level.
7. Data input is easy and not required on multiple screens.
8. Internet is not required to update or retrieve information.
9. Reports are easily generated.

I am not looking to use an organized league system software (APA, TAP, VNEA, NAPA), more looking for an independent, stand alone software that is easily used that a person can give me some history on (likes and dislikes).

I have done the google search, but most are pay per player as you use it, or a one time fee. A one time fee is fine as long as I can receive a disc or a download that can be backed up and most dont show a free example, just general points about the sofware and some screen shots. I really dont want to do the pay as you go because of the web based storage of the program and that sorta scares me if I am looking to do this for a long time.

Thank You for your time and any help would be greatful.
 
The best system I came up with that kept everyone happy was based on the money... I came up with ratings for everyone in the area as a base and allowed input from everyone the first few weeks and made tweaks....

If you won the tournament you went up... But you also went up when you had placed enough to get first place money.... So you finished 2nd or 3rd a few times you went up... The main issue I had was the top tier players being able to win even with bigger handicaps....... The base handicaps were 4-8.. Female 3s were allowed.... That was the number of games you played to..... After you won as an 8 you moved up to a 9 and then you would start giving up wild balls.... To keep the races shorter in hindsight I shoul have jumped to wild balls at 8..... Or I could have even done 3-6 and then added balls... The range will have to be based on the time frame you want to get thru in and how many players show up.... I had 11 tables so running 60+ thru in 5 hours was tight at best in a dbl elim..... some nights it was more like 7 hours.......

At the end of the year we had a tournament of champions based on all the weekly winners.... After the tournament of champions we would readjust the handicaps back to a new base and start over....

The lower players knew that it was just a matter of time before they would have a chance at winning and the upper end players were going to fight it out and win a few again before the handicaps started to be too tough.....

The only time I ever dropped players in rank would be if something in real life had taken them away from the game for 6 months or more.... I even got bit being careful about that as I had a low level player who was getting better win as a 4 and then as a 5 who was dropped by the room owner back to a 5 after being out of state taking care of personal business for 6 months win my tournament of champions one year....

To help keep people showing up we did a drawing for a break and run and you had to have played in the last couple to win the cash.... Making the 9ball on the break won you 100.00 and I would likely pay 25 just for making a ball on the break and stopping there so that the lower level players felt good about being drawn now that I can look back........

It was real easy to answer the gripers.... NIT: "So and so just beat my ass... they need to move up....." ME:"Then why can't they get into the money?" "If he wins he will..."
 
JAMSGOLF said:
Oh my God...I just got through reading that in its entirety...minus the appendix...I figured if I read the appendix, my head would actually explode.

There's some well-thought out observations/material in that pdf...

Thanks very much for posting that link...

Jason
Click to expand...


Meant to post up a link to Fargo billiards after reading the entire PDF also,,,Mike Page also made a video explaining a lot of it also.

http://www.fargobilliards.com/pool-leagues/fargo-ratings/
 
problem with any handicapping software is the players go on the lemon when they are in a soft match so their true speed is never really reveled. Its a nice thought but in 26 years i havent seen it work yet.

If players got points like in the PGA or there was a weekend cut again like the PGA then you would get a accurate calculation of a players true ability. But I havent seen that format in pool. single ans dbl elimination tournaments dont support that happening. :frown:
 
Fatboy2 said:
problem with any handicapping software is the players go on the lemon when they are in a soft match so their true speed is never really reveled. Its a nice thought but in 26 years i havent seen it work yet.

If players got points like in the PGA or there was a weekend cut again like the PGA then you would get a accurate calculation of a players true ability. But I havent seen that format in pool. single ans dbl elimination tournaments dont support that happening. :frown:
Click to expand...

Yup, pool is one of the hardest games to handicap because playing speed varies on a sometimes daily basis also.
Eric, pm me your number please, iTunes site had a dump and I lost all my numbers a while back.
 
Pushout said:
Yup, pool is one of the hardest games to handicap because playing speed varies on a sometimes daily basis also.
Eric, pm me your number please, iTunes site had a dump and I lost all my numbers a while back.
Click to expand...

I don't think pool is any harder to handicap than golf. Your handicap is based on your best X matches out of the last Y matches played, so your handicap is always a little better than your average night of playing. The only question is how to frame the way the handicap figures into the match you're playing.
 
walrus_3d said:
I don't think pool is any harder to handicap than golf. Your handicap is based on your best X matches out of the last Y matches played, so your handicap is always a little better than your average night of playing. The only question is how to frame the way the handicap figures into the match you're playing.
Click to expand...

If that were true, we would have a handicapping system that worked. We don't.
 
Fatboy2,

I can understand how handicapping has it flaws, especially when it comes to league play when the only prize is what happens at the end of the year. In my opinion, that just asked for sandbagging.

My goal is to not use leagues statistics as input for handicaps. The only input that I would like to use is the statistics from tournament play. I feel that will be the only way to keep accurate handicaps as long as tournaments are held more periodically (like bi-weekly over a three or four month timeframe). Then one month off, and start it over again for three or four months.

The reason why I feel that it will be accurate is because I do not plan on having one tournament with more added money than others, like a final Tour Championship with all kinds of extra money added. So, I just dont see a benefit in a player sandbagging from one event to the next.

Back to your other statement about points or a cut like the PGA. Great idea and have thought a lot about that previousely to you making that comment. Unfortunately, the time that would be required to do that style tournament is one major drawback, and also, in my area the resources (a pool hall) does not exist to be able to conduct that. Now in the future it may, but currently as of now, it does not.


Thank You all for the inputs and I greatly appreciate them.
 
The only stat that counts for a weekly handicapped tourney is money.... Plain and simple.....

You have to find a way for the worst players to have a shot at winning something and buy into the fact that they will.....

Lets say you do have a championship event...... As long as the winners kept getting moved up each week everyone thinks they have a chance at the end....

The best player may be giving up a monstrous spot at the end but if he is he knows how to win... He will still show up.... The worst player in the house will still show because every week the field adjusted and he has a better chance to win.... The girls will play for the same reason.....

You can keep stats all day long and show it to everyone but it's really all about their chance to win the whole shooting match that matters in the end.... PM me if you feel like talking and I will shoot you my number.... I had people driving an hour each way for my Thursday night handicappers and this was in Oak Ridge TN... Almost the black hole of pool....... An average tourney night when I was there was 40+........
 
More than just a handicap calculator, you need all the tools to coordinate the schedule, record the matches, track the teams/players and other logistics stuff. Our local division is going to try the PoolLeaguesOfAmerica.com program, we'll see how it goes. 6 teams so far!

Oh, if you want a good tool, it takes a lot of time to create it or some money to use one that's been created. Time = Money generally.
 
Renfro, Thank You and PM sent.

LeagueShirts, I did look at the Pool leagues of America website and it does look amazing, the charts and the tracking of players. But since I only want to do tournaments and not leagues using handicapp system I would rather pay a one time fee for a program than pay per game to use it. Now I have not investigated what the price per game is, so I guess I should do that. But, I feel much better about having a stand alone program rather than depending on the internet or a second company to be up and running three-four years down the road. Yes, it is a "what if", but if I can eliminate as many "what ifs" from the get go then that helps me out in the long run.

Thank You for your input and I greatly appreciate it.
 
Two things

First, I developed big system software for 30 years. There is no software available to meet all the requirements you stipulated.

If you are thinking about having someone program a program for you, it would run way more than you would be willing to pay.

Ingen is the best tournament software out there for a reasonable price.

I know you don't want league software, but go look at
www.league-central.com anyway.

Now, let me tell you how my home room does their weekly tournaments.
8 ball at 10 pm on Friday and Saturday night. $5 entry, 200% payback (room matches the entries). Handicapped from 2 to 6 (6 keeps it reasonable and keeps the time down, besides beating someone 6-1 is difficult at best).

If you get into the money (1st or 2nd only) 3 times, you go up one in handicap. If you go 2 and out 3 times, you go down one in handicap.

Then at 8:30 pm on Sunday they have a 9 ball tournament, straight race to 3, no handicaps. $5 entry, 200% payback.

Plus the owner of Stix, Joe (a real good guy), keeps his tables at .50 a game. Each of these tournaments get 12-26 players every week.
 
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