Handicapping tournaments with Fargo Ratings

Well like my x wife there was going to be a time if I waited long enough we could see eye to eye ,,
Not only that does anyone realy think any player who spends time to be a better player wants to play in a field that brings players closer to them by handicap ,, what's the purpose of practicing to be a better player then when I can get a spot to bring me on par and make it more of a coin flip ,, ya I can see all the pro's running to that

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^^^^^ I agree with this 100%!!!!

Now to one of my issues with Fargo : the fact that it is really going to ultimately screw the hell out of action for the most part. I believe the answer to this; at least now and for the foreseeable future until Mike finds away to incorporate it into his system, will be for folks to start playing one pocket. While everyone while end up having a rating drawn from the rotation and 8 ball games, some may be able still find an edge ( at the least a small one hopefully ) when playing one hole - just some food for thought yall!
 
^^^^^ I agree with this 100%!!!!

Now to one of my issues with Fargo : the fact that it is really going to ultimately screw the hell out of action for the most part. I believe the answer to this; at least now and for the foreseeable future until Mike finds away to incorporate it into his system, will be for folks to start playing one pocket. While everyone while end up having a rating drawn from the rotation and 8 ball games, some may be able still find an edge ( at the least a small one hopefully ) when playing one hole - just some food for thought yall!

So when you say "screw the hell out action" you really mean "not allow me to con/hustle anyone."

Right?

Just want to make sure I'm talking to someone that still thinks it's 1952
 
[...]
Now to one of my issues with Fargo : the fact that it is really going to ultimately screw the hell out of action for the most part. [...]

Our experience--and it's getting significant--with well established areas is just the opposite of this.
 
So when you say "screw the hell out action" you really mean "not allow me to con/hustle anyone."

Right?

Just want to make sure I'm talking to someone that still thinks it's 1952

Well I suppose some may take that viewpoint but that's not really what I was referring to. I was actually talking about adding yet more bs to the matching up dance. Some folks live for the " dance " when arching up and trying to make a game, I personally CANT freaking stand it lol. More often than not the people already know what the game I supposed to be but go through all of that trying to get a better edge. You know, the old " well just the other day Billy Bob played Tim Dog with the 7 and won, Before that Tim dog played One Arm Willy even but he had to play jacked up and...................... you know exactly what I'm talking about lol. I do not believe Fargo will eliminate all of this but I rather I see it adding just another layer and that's what I was getting at.

Now I kind of get the feeling you were coming at me from a personal level and that's fine as I'm a big boy. What I am about to say I have already said many times on here but I will again just to clarify things for you Beebs. As to being able to " sneak " up on someone and rob them, that is of no concern to me whatsoever. Sure, over the years I have made PLENTY of money in the bars. However it's been so long since I've been in action in the bars I truly can't ever remember the last time but for sure it's been years and years. I like action because I find it fun. I'm not trying to support myself though , just fun. Having to beat some drunk guys ass because you beat him out of $20 and embarrassed him in front of his old lady is not fun to me. Sure, at one point that would have been a lot of fun but that was a long long time ago.

As to everything else you said / inferred - due to an accident a little over four years ago amongst MANY MANY other things I sustained 3 spinal injuries. This has severely affected my want and my ability to play pool. My current reality is MAYBE playing pool 3 or four times a year now. With my last attempt about 2 monah ago I was good for about 15 minutes of table time and then that was it. I do have hopes of one day being able to play again but as in with life absolutely nothing is garunteed.

As to me matching up and getting in action and how Fargo would / could effect me - short answer is it cant. No way, no how. So my opinions on Fargo are just my opinions period. So what I am about to say does not include present day due to the reasons I state above but are rather prior to and hopefully
lyrics again at some point. I have a " list " so to say of the people I get in action with. It is a relatively small list. It is so small for a few select, but very important to me reasons which I will discuss now. I'll start with the obvious and the one that relates directly to this thread. " The Dance ". As I said, I TRULY can not begin to say how much I LOATHE it lol. 2 hours of utter BS just for someone to get up - no thanks! The people I play I've known for years. I know their games and they know mine. we know how we match up and it is whatever it is. No haggling needed. It WI
like just come down to either who is " on " that day or who gets the rolls, maybe a little of both. Next up - GOODS ACTION ONLY NEED APPLY. I play people that I know has money and has no problem losing it. I've had more than a lifetimes worth of people taking cheap shots just trying to make a score. " Sure I'll play you some $100 a game " , then they lose one or two games and it's I'm done! Or I need weight or more weight. Examples playing some one hole after one or two games they're like you robbing me ! And I'm like you realize the game (s) came down to us both needing the last ball right???? Theu respond something like " yeah but you made that one bank or I saw the way you hit the balls though". How many times have we all encountered a bunch of retarded NITS just like this? Or playing 9 ball and you get the you're stealing again and you're like , bro the set went hill hill and you hung the 9 ball in the pocket lol???? Once more no thanks!

Next I prefer to play with gentleman. No beeching and moaning after a lose. Just pay up and shale hands. Don't have to worry about cheating or getting robbed in the parking lot - at least not by your opponent lol.I also wanna know that whatever the amount I'm playing someone that can lose the same amount to me that I would lose to them and just as important they have the heart to do so.I like playing with people that I can bs with and laugh and joke around with. Once again, I want to have fun.

I could go on but I won't because I think you get my point. Not out to " hustle or con " anyone as you out it. Fargos not going to affect me in any meaningful way. It's just as a pool player and part of the community I have opinions on various things ( as does everyone ) and I have a few issues with Fargo Rate. I respect Mike for all the hard work he has invested in this and for what he is trying to do. By no means am I the only one with issues with Fargo. Only time will tell how successful Fargo will be but it seems to be off to a pretty good start.
 
FargoRate could add a bracket generator (like Challonge) to the site. It would incorporate the search feature that's already on the site.

So if a weekly handicap tournament decides to use FargoRate. The TD would simply log in, and enter people's names as they sign up. If they are in the system, their rating will automatically populate. If not, they start at the default rating of 525 (??).

As matches are completed, the TD enters the scores, and ratings would adjust in real time.

Sounds super easy on the surface if you're good with that stuff, but I'm sure Mike can point out whatever difficulties may exist.

Right, and I wonder if they'd want to charge some amount for using it, $50 per tournament, or x% of payouts, or one entry fee, or something like that. I'm sure people would prefer a free system and there are plenty, but I don't know how these guys are making any money doing this. And if the software is good enough I'm sure people would pay a modest amount to use it and get their scores in.

I don't think the scores could adjust in real time, because they recalculate once per day.

And from the grumbling I've seen, the starter ratings are a problem. I wonder if it would be better for a TD to just assign a temporary rating to a new player - "you're about as good as so and so, you get a 580 for this tournament." Of course, that just causes a different kind of grumbling...
 
And from the grumbling I've seen, the starter ratings are a problem. I wonder if it would be better for a TD to just assign a temporary rating to a new player - "you're about as good as so and so, you get a 580 for this tournament." Of course, that just causes a different kind of grumbling...

I agree with this. While of course there will be grumbling (we are pool players after all), at least in my limited experience, the TD assigning you a temporary rating is exactly what happens now.

TD: "Bill is a new player, what do I rank him?"

Player A: "He plays about as good as John (an 8) or maybe Dave (a 9)".

TD: "Let's make him a 9 to be safe".

TD:"Bill, we're making you a 9"

Bill: "Come on, John beats me all the time, I should be a 7 - an 8 at most".

Player B "What? Bill just beat a 9. He should be a 10".
 
Right, and I wonder if they'd want to charge some amount for using it, $50 per tournament, or x% of payouts, or one entry fee, or something like that. I'm sure people would prefer a free system and there are plenty, but I don't know how these guys are making any money doing this. And if the software is good enough I'm sure people would pay a modest amount to use it and get their scores in.

I don't think the scores could adjust in real time, because they recalculate once per day.

And from the grumbling I've seen, the starter ratings are a problem. I wonder if it would be better for a TD to just assign a temporary rating to a new player - "you're about as good as so and so, you get a 580 for this tournament." Of course, that just causes a different kind of grumbling...


I said this right after Mike started rolling this out on AZ - I Believed then as I do now, his ultimate goal is creating a national or even international league to replace all other leagues or at the bare minimum the APA. We all should know how well just the APA does financially so there allure huge sums of money we are talking about. One smart move would be to role out Fargo for free and eventually get everyone using it. Get it so widely used and ingrained in the pool scene that folks more or less can't do without it. At that point there would be multiple options. If the league aspect were found out to not be feasible he could then charge some type of small fee for the use of it and with that number of people using it, it would be a huge recurring charge in perpetuity - not a bad idea either imho. Charge could
do be something as simple as $1 per player per week, and that cost would just be passed along to each player to absorb and for the most part it would be well rcvd because it supposedly is SO much better and more accurate than the handicapping systems currently in use. AN END TO THE SANDBAGGING!!!!! WOOOOHOOOO!!!! �� Moving forward Mike has quite a few options how to proceed, the key is to have it being widely used and thought as of far superior to anything else out there - I think for the most part he has succeeded with a good portion of the AZ crowd anyway lol. I'm sure the few that bring up the inherent problems are quite the thorn in the side at tissue early stage - you guys better be careful and watch out for yourselves lol��

Mike if by some chance I am way off and you have not thought of these things this is notice I want in and my nice GAPPER compensation!!!! LOL I am now copy writing this, or trademarking, or whatever the hell you do to get paid when you have a good idear! ☺
 
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Right, and I wonder if they'd want to charge some amount for using it, $50 per tournament, or x% of payouts, or one entry fee, or something like that. I'm sure people would prefer a free system and there are plenty, but I don't know how these guys are making any money doing this. And if the software is good enough I'm sure people would pay a modest amount to use it and get their scores in.

I don't think the scores could adjust in real time, because they recalculate once per day.

And from the grumbling I've seen, the starter ratings are a problem. I wonder if it would be better for a TD to just assign a temporary rating to a new player - "you're about as good as so and so, you get a 580 for this tournament." Of course, that just causes a different kind of grumbling...

I don't think the timing of the rating adjustments is that important. Within 48 hours would be fine.

Cost? Not sure.

Starter ratings could be based off league ratings as long as it could be verified somehow.
 
I think there should be a different fargo rate for each discipline of the game. 1 for 8ball, 1 for 9ball, 1 for 10ball, one hole, maybe 14.1 ... etc.. Then an overall rating, maybe have 9 and 10 into 1 since they are both rotational games. But that's what I would like fargo to do. Maybe even a 7ft and 9 ft separation. I know they have the data for it, but probably too time consuming. I wouldnt worry much about the 7ft/9ft.

Just an idea.
 
MikePage: I just looked up my name in FargoRate and for the first time, I am in the system. I have a rating of zero. I also played in the 10 ball challenge last July during the BCA. When can I expect to have a rating of any kind on the system other than zero. By the way the name is Mike Madamba
 
Yes that's my same situation. I'm in the system, have a 0 Robustness.

I've asked around but for me in NYC there seems to be no way, or no easy way to improve this.

So for me, like it was said before.. FargoRate is fun for looking up pros.
 
MikePage: I just looked up my name in FargoRate and for the first time, I am in the system. I have a rating of zero. I also played in the 10 ball challenge last July during the BCA. When can I expect to have a rating of any kind on the system other than zero. By the way the name is Mike Madamba

We are looking into this Mike.
 
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