hard to aim ivisible object ball

ENGLISH! said:
'Tim',

Oh no, it did not take someone else to come along to ruin the agreement. '...The system pretty much teaches you the correct approach into the shot and quickly the subconscious will take over,...'

Please note that you said, 'the correct approach into the shot and quickly the subconscious will take over'. That does not appear to be speaking about the system or method becoming subconscious.

I don't think it is 'my' definition of 'objective' that is important as it is NOT 'MY' definition. The word 'objective' is defined.

I think it is more important that Stan's definition of 'objective' be clearly defined by him. He may or may not be misapplying it. I don't know.

Why have you surfed right by my questions regarding what is different in order to get different results from the exact same procedure?

ob·jec·tive
əbˈjektiv/Submit
adjective
1.
(of a person or their judgment) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.
"historians try to be objective and impartial"
synonyms: impartial, unbiased, unprejudiced, nonpartisan, disinterested, neutral, uninvolved, even-handed, equitable, fair, fair-minded, just, open-minded, dispassionate, detached, neutral
"I was hoping to get an objective and pragmatic report"

noun
1.
a thing aimed at or sought; a goal.

Best,
Rick
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Well i learned the system pretty quick when it first came out rick. I was able to just look at the shot and just move into it lickity split. I understood how the system was applied to a shot and trusted it and let it filtered into the subconscious, nothing i could do about that. The subconscious has no meaning in the pro1 discussions, honestly.

So you do not understand was is meant by objective when discussing pro1 but you keep using the word when discussing it

The 5 shot thing are all the same alignments but different approaches into the shot line, its not hard to understand or figure out. A beginner with the system will need help from the pocket location and a experienced player not so much if any at all.

did i answer the question?
 
Timothy Rose said:
Well i learned the system pretty quick when it first came out rick. I was able to just look at the shot and just move into it lickity split. I understood how the system was applied to a shot and trusted it and let it filtered into the subconscious, nothing i could do about that. The subconscious has no meaning in the pro1 discussions, honestly.

So you do not understand was is meant by objective when discussing pro1 but you keep using the word when discussing it

The 5 shot thing are all the same alignments but different approaches into the shot line, its not hard to understand or figure out. A beginner with the system will need help from the pocket location and a experienced player not so much if any at all.

did i answer the question?
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'Tim',

I know what the definition of 'objective' is & I know what the word means.

IF... it has a different definition as it applies to CTE Pro1 then perhaps that definition should be made clear & perhaps all of the disagreement or at least some of it could be put aside.

If a beginner would need help by using the pocket location then the 'system' is not as it is being presented. Yes... I can understand that a beginner might choose the wrong pivot but...if the system is as presented then an experienced player should be able to call out the visual & pivot to a beginner & he or she should be able to execute the shot provided that their stroke is sufficient.

Your current method of 'discussion' reminds me of another. Don't give rational & logical explanations just accuse me of not understanding what objective really is. Next...I will be accused of not being able to understand because I am simply not intelligent enough to understand or you will tell me to take it to the table & just trust that it will work.

Well, I & several others HAVE taken it to the table & when executed objectively as outlined, it does not work in all cases. It has holes when executed totally objectively, at least that is how I & others see it.

One input does not yield 5 different outcomes.

So, why don't you explain to me & everyone else reading exactly what the word 'objective' means when used in the CTE Pro1 context, since you now infer that it has a different meaning than it's usual generally accepted meaning.

Best,
Rick
 
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ENGLISH! said:
'Tim',

I know what the definition of 'objective' is & I know what the word means.

IF... it has a different definition as it applies to CTE Pro1 then perhaps that definition should be made clear & perhaps all of the disagreement or at least some of it could be put aside.

If a beginner would need help by using the pocket location then the 'system' is not as it is being presented. Yes... I can understand that a beginner might choose the wrong pivot but...if the system is as presented then an experienced player should be able to call out the visual & pivot to a beginner & he or she should be able to execute the shot provided that their stroke is sufficient.

Your current method of 'discussion' reminds me of another. Don't give rational & logical explanations just accuse me of not understanding what objective really is. Next...I will be accused of not being able to understand because I am simply not intelligent enough to understand or you will tell me to take it to the table & just trust that it will work.

Well, I & several others HAVE taken it to the table & when executed objectively as outlined, it does not work in all cases. It has holes when executed totally objectively, at least that is how & others see it.

One input does not yield 5 different outcomes.

So, why don't you explain to me & everyone else reading exactly what the word 'objective' means when used in the CTE Pro1 context, since you now infer that it has a different meaning than it's usual generally accepted meaning.

Best,
Rick
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Well you have to ask stan as to exactly what he means by the word "objective" when discussing pro1, is what I am talking about. i dont really use that word because I am not sure of his meaning of "objective when discussing pro1.

well a beginner using the pocket or the angle of the shot will help them with the correct visual and physical alignment needed to make the shot All shots with a same alignment will have a different approach angle into the shot... this is where you and all fail when trying to learn the system. You guys go into a robotic mode and fail very very quickly, Your doing it the way the naysayers have told you how the system works or how you think it works and not how stan teaches it.

THIS SYSTEM TEACHES YOU HOW TO SHOOT/READ ANGLES!!!! BOTTOM LINE..... That is the end result.. no silly ghost ball or shooting a million balls,etc
 
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Timothy Rose said:
Well you have to ask stan as to exactly what he means by the word "objective" when discussing pro1, is what I am talking about. i dont really use that word because I am not sure of his meaning of "objective when discussing pro1.

well a beginner using the pocket or the angle of the shot will help them with the correct visual and physical alignment needed to make the shot All shots with a same alignment will have a different approach angle into the shot... this is where you and all fail when trying to learn the system. You guys go into a robotic mode and fail very very quickly, Your doing it the way the naysayers have told you how the system works or how you think it works and not how stan teaches it.

THIS SYSTEM TEACHES YOU HOW TO SHOOT/READ ANGLES!!!! BOTTOM LINE..... That is the end result.. no silly ghost ball or shooting a million balls,etc

'Tim'?

All shots with a same alignment will have a different approach angle into the shot What does that mean? Each shot has one alignment. You can come into the shot from all different 'approach angles' but you need to arrive at that one single alignment in order to pocket the ball.

You guys go into a robotic mode and fail very very quickly According to Stan the 'system' is not subjective & even you just said a short time ago (at least one out of two statements), that subjectivity has no place in CTE Pro1. So...it would seem that a robotic approach is what would work best... IF the 'system' is valid.

Your doing it the way the naysayers have told you how the system works or how you think it works and not how stan teaches it. I thought the naysayers say that it does NOT work...at least not without a subjective input. You can't have it both ways... it does not work for you guys because you are robots AND it does not work for you guys because you use subjectivity & not how Stan teaches it. Which is it?

THIS SYSTEM TEACHES YOU HOW TO SHOOT/READ ANGLES!!!! BOTTOM LINE..... That is the end result.. no silly ghost ball or shooting a million balls,etc Again, no rational or logical explanations, just a yelling declaration & a put down of ghost ball & subconscious learning. This does not seem like you Timothy Rose...this seems much more like three others I know & I think I know which one you resemble most.

Best to You & May God Bless You,
Rick

PS I know, I just want to nit pic everything.
Click to expand...
 
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ENGLISH! said:
Timothy Rose said:
Tim,

All shots with a same alignment will have a different approach angle into the shot What does that mean? Each shot has one alignment. You can come into the shot from all different 'approach angles' but you need to arrive at that one single alignment in order to pocket the ball. The 5 shot thing you want to discuss are all inside A shots but with all different degrees in cuts to the same corner. The system teaches you how to visually adjust before you even start to pick up the lines.

You guys go into a robotic mode and fail very very quickly According to Stan the 'system' is not subjective & even you just said a short time ago the subjectivity has no place in CTE Pro1. So...it would seem that a robotic approach is what would work best... IF the 'system' is valid. Being robotic will not let you visually adjust before you even start to pick up the lines which will make you fail.

Your doing it the way the naysayers have told you how the system works or how you think it works and not how stan teaches it. I thought the naysayers say that it does NOT work...at least not without a subjective input. You can't have it both ways... it does not work for you guys because you are robots AND it does not work for you guys because you use subjectivity & not how Stan teaches it. Which is it?

THIS SYSTEM TEACHES YOU HOW TO SHOOT/READ ANGLES!!!! BOTTOM LINE..... That is the end result.. no silly ghost ball or shooting a million balls,etc Again, no rational or logical explanations, just a yelling declaration & a put down of ghost ball & subconscious learning. This does not seem like you Timothy Rose...this seems much more like three others I know & I think I know which one you resemble most. with pro1, your not shooting at a contact points, right? So with the system you get used to seeing angles on every shot and they start getting burned on the brain. Dont get personal RICK! and stay in the discussion

PS I know, I just want to nit pic everything
Best to You & May God Bless You,
Rick
Click to expand...

You can nit pic but don't get personal RICK! and stay in the discussion and on topic or let it go
Click to expand...
 
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Timothy Rose said:
ENGLISH! said:
You can nit pic but don't get personal RICK! and stay in the discussion and on topic or let it go
Click to expand...

Who ever you are,

So now you're going to go 'off topic' & DICTATE to me on what to do & not to do.

Why don't you stay on topic & respond to the questions & points I've made instead of making DICTATES.

That is, unless you're not who I think you might be & are Mr. Wilson instead, which is not beyond the realm of possibility.
Click to expand...
 
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ENGLISH! said:
Timothy Rose said:
So now you're going to go 'off topic' & DICTATE to me on what to do & not do.

Why don't you stay on topic & respond to the questions & point I've made instead of making DICTATES.
Click to expand...

????? answers are in black bold above i will put below




Tim,

All shots with a same alignment will have a different approach angle into the shot What does that mean? Each shot has one alignment. You can come into the shot from all different 'approach angles' but you need to arrive at that one single alignment in order to pocket the ball. The 5 shot thing you want to discuss are all inside A shots but with all different degrees in cuts to the same corner. The system teaches you how to visually adjust before you even start to pick up the lines.

You guys go into a robotic mode and fail very very quickly According to Stan the 'system' is not subjective & even you just said a short time ago the subjectivity has no place in CTE Pro1. So...it would seem that a robotic approach is what would work best... IF the 'system' is valid. Being robotic will not let you visually adjust before you even start to pick up the lines which will make you fail.

Your doing it the way the naysayers have told you how the system works or how you think it works and not how stan teaches it. I thought the naysayers say that it does NOT work...at least not without a subjective input. You can't have it both ways... it does not work for you guys because you are robots AND it does not work for you guys because you use subjectivity & not how Stan teaches it. Which is it?

THIS SYSTEM TEACHES YOU HOW TO SHOOT/READ ANGLES!!!! BOTTOM LINE..... That is the end result.. no silly ghost ball or shooting a million balls,etc Again, no rational or logical explanations, just a yelling declaration & a put down of ghost ball & subconscious learning. This does not seem like you Timothy Rose...this seems much more like three others I know & I think I know which one you resemble most. with pro1, your not shooting at a contact points, right? So with the system you get used to seeing angles on every shot and they start getting burned on the brain. Dont get personal RICK! and stay in the discussion

PS I know, I just want to nit pic everything
Best to You & May God Bless You,
Rick
Click to expand...

answers are in black bold above
 
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All shots with a same alignment will have a different approach angle into the shot What does that mean? Each shot has one alignment. You can come into the shot from all different 'approach angles' but you need to arrive at that one single alignment in order to pocket the ball. The 5 shot thing you want to discuss are all inside A shots but with all different degrees in cuts to the same corner. You re-state the obvious.The system teaches you how to visually adjust before you even start to pick up the lines. Hasn't Stan & others said that there are NO adjustments. edge to A pivot or sweep & shoot?

You guys go into a robotic mode and fail very very quickly According to Stan the 'system' is not subjective & even you just said a short time ago the subjectivity has no place in CTE Pro1. So...it would seem that a robotic approach is what would work best... IF the 'system' is valid. Being robotic will not let you visually adjust before you even start to pick up the lines which will make you fail. Again, Hasn't Stan & others said that there are NO adjustment?

Your doing it the way the naysayers have told you how the system works or how you think it works and not how stan teaches it. I thought the naysayers say that it does NOT work...at least not without a subjective input. You can't have it both ways... it does not work for you guys because you are robots AND it does not work for you guys because you use subjectivity & not how Stan teaches it. Which is it? Why did you skip this?

THIS SYSTEM TEACHES YOU HOW TO SHOOT/READ ANGLES!!!! BOTTOM LINE..... That is the end result.. no silly ghost ball or shooting a million balls,etc Again, no rational or logical explanations, just a yelling declaration & a put down of ghost ball & subconscious learning. This does not seem like you Timothy Rose...this seems much more like three others I know & I think I know which one you resemble most. with pro1, your not shooting at a contact points, right? So with the system you get used to seeing angles on every shot and they start getting burned on the brain. Dont get personal RICK! and stay in the discussion The only way to get 5 different angles is by hitting 5 different contact points. This 'burned' on the brain & angles thing is basically HAMB. That implies subjectivity.

It's not my fault if you're not yourself today, TIMOTHY! I'm done with this 'discussion' you're not bringing anything new to it & are just repeating the same irrational & illogical 'stuff'. I've concluded on the table & because of the lack of any good explantion here on AZB that it is NOT what it was introduced to be but instead is something different. If those using it are convinced that is a a non subjective method, then good for them. The no squirt or swerve method that Mike Segel used work extremely well for him too.
 
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ENGLISH! said:
All shots with a same alignment will have a different approach angle into the shot What does that mean? Each shot has one alignment. You can come into the shot from all different 'approach angles' but you need to arrive at that one single alignment in order to pocket the ball. The 5 shot thing you want to discuss are all inside A shots but with all different degrees in cuts to the same corner. You re-state the obvious.The system teaches you how to visually adjust before you even start to pick up the lines. Hasn't Stan & others said that there are NO adjustments. edge to A pivot or sweep & shoot?

You guys go into a robotic mode and fail very very quickly According to Stan the 'system' is not subjective & even you just said a short time ago the subjectivity has no place in CTE Pro1. So...it would seem that a robotic approach is what would work best... IF the 'system' is valid. Being robotic will not let you visually adjust before you even start to pick up the lines which will make you fail. Again, Hasn't Stan & others said that there are NO adjustment?

Your doing it the way the naysayers have told you how the system works or how you think it works and not how stan teaches it. I thought the naysayers say that it does NOT work...at least not without a subjective input. You can't have it both ways... it does not work for you guys because you are robots AND it does not work for you guys because you use subjectivity & not how Stan teaches it. Which is it? Why did you skip this?

THIS SYSTEM TEACHES YOU HOW TO SHOOT/READ ANGLES!!!! BOTTOM LINE..... That is the end result.. no silly ghost ball or shooting a million balls,etc Again, no rational or logical explanations, just a yelling declaration & a put down of ghost ball & subconscious learning. This does not seem like you Timothy Rose...this seems much more like three others I know & I think I know which one you resemble most. with pro1, your not shooting at a contact points, right? So with the system you get used to seeing angles on every shot and they start getting burned on the brain. Dont get personal RICK! and stay in the discussion The only way to get 5 different angles is by hitting 5 different contact points. This 'burned' on the brain & angles thing is basically HAMB. That implies subjectivity.

It's not my fault if you're not yourself today, TIMOTHY! I'm done with this 'discussion' you're not bringing anything new to it & are just repeating the same irrational & illogical 'stuff'. I've concluded on the table & because of the lack of any good explantion here on AZB that it is NOT what it was introduced to be but instead is something different. If those using it are convinced that is a a non subjective method, then good for them. The no squirt or swerve method that Mike Segel used work extremely well for him too.
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ok cool, im good with with ending this and good luck rick :)
 
I've given my advice to westlife in post #2 based on my pool journey of more than 47 years.

If anyone else has any advice for him please post it.

I apologize for the long 'discussion' of CTE Pro1.

However I do not think it would be good for westlife to go in that direction based on my experience with it & westlife's previous threads & posts.

Obviously he can go in whatever direction he chooses.

So, if anyone has any real advice for westlife that might actually benefit him, please post it.

Best Wishes to Everyone.
 
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ENGLISH! said:
Hey... Applause! Applause! Finally an advocate uses & aplies the word Subconscious to CTE Pro1.

Now we can start to agree, but...

I'm sure someone will come along to say that you are mistaken because if the subconscious is involved then the system or method is NOT 100% totally objective.
Click to expand...

Something becomes subconscious when it is a habit and you no longer have to think about doing it. That does not mean CTE is no longer objective. When you are in the zone, you are thinking about absolutely nothing. The balls just go in the holes and you keep playing shape over and over again. You are still aiming while in the zone, you just aren't doing it on a conscious level.
 
nine_ball6970 said:
Something becomes subconscious when it is a habit and you no longer have to think about doing it. That does not mean CTE is no longer objective. When you are in the zone, you are thinking about absolutely nothing. The balls just go in the holes and you keep playing shape over and over again. You are still aiming while in the zone, you just aren't doing it on a conscious level.
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He puts so many twists and turns into the discussion, that it becomes difficult to understand the basics stuff...I think he feels like he can somehow catch/trick someone into a false opinion that will match up with his personal opinions...maybe an ego thing, dunno?
 
It's funny to see the same people arguing the same thing, but in different threads.

Also funny that people focus on what is different between the different aiming systems and don't take note of what is similar. Could be the use of different words to describe the same thing and disagreement of the definition of those words.

Change your approach angle into the shot until perception tells you are in the right spot.

This wording has been used by proponents of CTE, but I think it applies to all aiming systems.

Perception. A term frequently used by the founder of CTE, who also says it is a key component.

All aiming systems use perception. Difference begins with what each aiming system is perceiving. For each of the different aiming systems, what is the thought process and visualization that tells you the approach angle is correct ? Would be very useful if proponents of each system provided a single sentence answer to this question and then someone listed them all together. People think and visualize differently. Some things are easy to visualize for one person, but difficult for another.

Believe it or not, I perceive and visualize different things depending on the shot. Thin cuts, thick cuts, no cut, combinations, OB & CB very close together, etc..
 
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I just try and kill time when I am on here, shooting the shit. Some of these guy want a battle each and every time they come here? The more comfortable I am in the conversation the more i will open up and talk, these guys don't let you get to that point lol
 
It's human nature to want to be correct and have people agree with you.

But most things are not black and white with universal correct answers that apply to all. You have truth on both sides, but sometimes people ignore what is similar and focus on what's different in an effort to "win".
 
Trying to always "win" i am not sure what they re trying to "win", is the mistake these guys continue to make. The guy that learned a system that has helped him become a better player, has won!
 
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Timothy Rose said:
Trying to always "win" i am not sure what they re trying to "win", is the mistake these guys continue to make. The guy that learned a system that has helped him become a better player, has won!
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I heard the guy that learned a system that helped him improve ended up 10k out of pocket and lost...

Just kidding :-)
 
Pidge said:
I heard the guy that learned a system that helped him improve ended up 10k out of pocket and lost...

Just kidding :-)
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haha ....:)

well at least you cant say he doesn't have "balls" lol especially when he has no stroke and nothing will help him until he fixes that haha
 
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