Hardwood handles affecting hit

[nibrobus]

**Originally posted in the "Ask the Cuemaker" forum**

I prefer wrapless cues and love the look of exotic hardwood handles. I've been told in the past that mating a hardwood handle (i.e., ebony, cocobolo, tulipwood, etc.) with another dense hardwood would not be a good idea. Some of the reasons were

1) If would be difficult to make a lighter cue if you prefer it

2) The hit would be extremely hard/stiff

Does anyone feel that this is valid information? Can you make a cue with hardwood handle and forearm/butt without it being heavy (+19.7 oz.) or too stiff of a hit? Thanks in advance for the responses.

 

[bruin70]

my question is why........if you combine two extremely hard woods. what will you expect out of it.

harder feel? how will you tell the diff between an ebony with a bocote core?

harder hit? how will you tell if bocote hits harder than bocote with an ebony core?

all those woods are so extremely hard that the diff is incremental. i can understand maybe maple with a bocote core, but not two very dense woods combined.

 

[thoffen]

1) Depends on the construction...
The best cuemakers use no metal in the joining of cue components. If you request a SS joint, expect it to be heavier.

2) You will definitely get a different feel. Remember though that maple is a hardwood itself. You can control the feel in many other ways, e.g. joint (use wood-wood, helps with the weight as well), shaft taper, ferrule, tip.

3) If you're more interested in the look of the hardwood than its playing characteristics, you can have it cored.

 

[tedkaufman]

Many cuemakers today use coring done on CNC machines. The tolerances are so tight, they can core an exotic, dense hardwood, fill it with a lighter maple core, and achieve pretty much any weight you desire, with no compromise it hit or feel.

That said, Jerry Franklin, when he was making my SW years ago, told me he could not make a cue using cocobolo (or other similarly dense wood, ie ebony, etc) any lighter than about 19 oz. That was in the days before CNC machines and coring, however.

 

[gforces1911]

Don't know about stiffness

**Originally posted in the "Ask the Cuemaker" forum**

I prefer wrapless cues and love the look of exotic hardwood handles. I've been told in the past that mating a hardwood handle (i.e., ebony, cocobolo, tulipwood, etc.) with another dense hardwood would not be a good idea. Some of the reasons were

1) If would be difficult to make a lighter cue if you prefer it

2) The hit would be extremely hard/stiff

Does anyone feel that this is valid information? Can you make a cue with hardwood handle and forearm/butt without it being heavy (+19.7 oz.) or too stiff of a hit? Thanks in advance for the responses.

I have a Judd JT1 coming and it will have a cocobolo handle- I am not sure it a handle can make it stiff. I have not really thought about it. In re the weight I prefer a heavier cue. You should ask the cuemaker you are working with for his/her input. A lot of cues nowadays are being made with exotic or exposed wood handles- I have seen Madden, Howard, Judd etc. a lot of cuemakers doing it.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Many cuemakers today use coring done on CNC machines.

I sure like to see that one.
]Can you make a cue with hardwood handle and forearm/butt without it being heavy (+19.7 oz.) or too stiff of a hit? Thanks in advance for the responses.

Define hardwood. There are woods that are hard and are not too heavy.

 

[nibrobus]

Many cuemakers today use coring done on CNC machines.

I sure like to see that one.
]Can you make a cue with hardwood handle and forearm/butt without it being heavy (+19.7 oz.) or too stiff of a hit? Thanks in advance for the responses.

Define hardwood. There are woods that are hard and are not too heavy.

Thanks to everyone for the responses so far. My whole reason for posting the question was to see what kind of wrapless designs would be feasible without making the cue excessively heavy or play horribly. I am not very educated as to how coring affects a cues playability, so I have no idea as to how a cored cue would "hit" differently than a non-cored cue using the same woods.

 

[nibrobus]

I have a Judd JT1 coming and it will have a cocobolo handle- I am not sure it a handle can make it stiff. I have not really thought about it. In re the weight I prefer a heavier cue. You should ask the cuemaker you are working with for his/her input. A lot of cues nowadays are being made with exotic or exposed wood handles- I have seen Madden, Howard, Judd etc. a lot of cuemakers doing it.

I also have a Judd JT-1 on order. I had asked for a tulipwood forearm and butt with an ebony handle but he stated that he couldn't make it any lighter than 20 oz. I settled for a smooth black leather wrap instead but was wondering if it was possible to have this design made lighter than 20 oz. (In retrospect, I'm actually starting to like a 20 oz. cue and may try to change my order)

 

[thoffen]

Thanks to everyone for the responses so far. My whole reason for posting the question was to see what kind of wrapless designs would be feasible without making the cue excessively heavy or play horribly. I am not very educated as to how coring affects a cues playability, so I have no idea as to how a cored cue would "hit" differently than a non-cored cue using the same woods.

Wood is cored for a few reasons:
1) Weight -- the reason you would want it cored
2) Unstable wood prone to cracking or having poor playing characteristics
3) Feel -- keeping it more consistent from cue to cue or prefering the hit of the core wood over the outer wood.

When you core a section of a cue, it will hit more like the core wood. It can affect the balance of the cue. It will definitely affect the weight.

For example, coring a solid ebony handle with maple will decrease the weight and have the cue play more like a wrapped cue w/maple handle, less stiff than an ebony handle.

I also have a Judd JT-1 on order. I had asked for a tulipwood forearm and butt with an ebony handle but he stated that he couldn't make it any lighter than 20 oz. I settled for a smooth black leather wrap instead but was wondering if it was possible to have this design made lighter than 20 oz. (In retrospect, I'm actually starting to like a 20 oz. cue and may try to change my order)

It depends on a lot of things -- butt thickness, length, joint type (e.g. stainless steel will be heavier), whether or not you core certain components, and the way they are joined together.

Just because Judd cannot do it doesn't mean other builders can't. I dont' see why it wouldn't be possible, especially if you core the ebony handle.

 

[KingCarom]

My playing cue is Gaboon Ebony that's been cored and it plays real well & hit's em pure every time. Any of you that have hit a Blud know what I mean.

 

[gforces1911]

Leather

I also have a Judd JT-1 on order. I had asked for a tulipwood forearm and butt with an ebony handle but he stated that he couldn't make it any lighter than 20 oz. I settled for a smooth black leather wrap instead but was wondering if it was possible to have this design made lighter than 20 oz. (In retrospect, I'm actually starting to like a 20 oz. cue and may try to change my order)

Wow- leather sounds like a good choice as well. I had Layani build one with a ziricote handle with curly maple. It turned out well- hit great.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Just because Judd cannot do it doesn't mean other builders can't. I dont' see why it wouldn't be possible, especially if you core the ebony handle.


Judd refuses to core woods.
He does not own a gun drill.

 

[nibrobus]

Just because Judd cannot do it doesn't mean other builders can't. I dont' see why it wouldn't be possible, especially if you core the ebony handle.


Judd refuses to core woods.
He does not own a gun drill.

I really like the way Judd's cues play and would rather change my design than compromise the hit of the cue. I think a tulipwood cue with ebony handle non-cored would have a little too harsh of a hit so I'll keep me original order.