heavy shafts

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
man, is like, "heavy," a relative term? is 5 oz. heavy to you?
what I'm using now is 5 oz., and that number is increasing somewhat
as a mainly open bridge player, I like the weight holding the shaft down
and so far it feels good. I feel just a bit more confident holding my cue.
but as with anything good that comes in life, I'm waiting for the other cue to drop-
so, are there any outright disadvantages to using a heavier shaft?
does the cue deflection change, if the "extra" weight isn't in the first 12 in.?
 
man, is like, "heavy," a relative term? is 5 oz. heavy to you?
what I'm using now is 5 oz., and that number is increasing somewhat
as a mainly open bridge player, I like the weight holding the shaft down
and so far it feels good. I feel just a bit more confident holding my cue.
but as with anything good that comes in life, I'm waiting for the other cue to drop-
so, are there any outright disadvantages to using a heavier shaft?
does the cue deflection change, if the "extra" weight isn't in the first 12 in.?
5oz's is a heavy piece of lumber. To me a heavy shaft is anything over 4oz. I'm guessing the deflection is pretty high. That would be the main concern to me. Most LD shafts are lightened in the first 5-6". Don't know if 5oz LD would be possible.
 
5oz's is a heavy piece of lumber. To me a heavy shaft is anything over 4oz. I'm guessing the deflection is pretty high. That would be the main concern to me. Most LD shafts are lightened in the first 5-6". Don't know if 5oz LD would be possible.
Good morning
With c/f shafts, it is becoming more normal to see weight added to the joint side of the shaft. 3 to 6 inches deep. Deep eneogh so that if the joint set up was changed, a mechanic working on it wouldn't even know. It is also being done to wooden shafts. Surprisingly, it's not real noticeable as long as it's not to much.
 
Good morning
With c/f shafts, it is becoming more normal to see weight added to the joint side of the shaft. 3 to 6 inches deep. Deep eneogh so that if the joint set up was changed, a mechanic working on it wouldn't even know. It is also being done to wooden shafts. Surprisingly, it's not real noticeable as long as it's not to much.
They pretty much have to seeing how light the tubes are. Quite a few cf shafts i've seen barely hit the 3.5-3.7oz mark.
 
A shaft should weigh a minimum of 18% of the cue’s playing weight.
That should be the minimum but going higher tends to be work better.

20-23% is the ideal weight range. The better cue makers adhere to this too.
The best cue makers do not use heavy weight bolts to hit the target weight.

Most players know most of the terms that represent the components in a pool
cue but they really do not understand pool cue anatomy or the nuances therein.
 
Anything over 4.5oz has usually felt a bit dead to me-for lack of a better word.

I’m sure there are a few shafts that are heavy that I would be ok with. It’s a matter of what you like-not numbers on paper.

Try everything, enjoy

Fatboy😀
My Jensen shafts with ivory ferrules are right at 4oz's. I swear these things have a heartbeat. ;)
 
A shaft should weigh a minimum of 18% of the cue’s playing weight.
That should be the minimum but going higher tends to be work better.

20-23% is the ideal weight range. The better cue makers adhere to this too.
The best cue makers do not use heavy weight bolts to hit the target weight.
Can you get to 23% shaft weight without ivory ferrules and/or high deflection? For instance, a 20 oz cue with a 23% shaft works out to a 4.6 oz shaft. I don't think I've ever seen any type of maple shaft for sale that weighs 4.6 oz. Even the maple shafts with ivory ferrules tend to weigh less than that. So I imagine you would have to get a custom carbon shaft with weight added near the joint to get a 23% shaft without high deflection.
 
Last edited:
Can you get to 23% shaft weight without ivory ferrules and/or high deflection? For instance, a 20 oz cue with a 23% shaft works out to a 4.6 oz shaft. I don't think I've ever seen any type of maple shaft for sale that weighs 4.6 oz. Even the maple shafts with ivory ferrules tend to weigh less than that. So I imagine you would have to get a custom carbon shaft with weight added near the joint to get a 23% shaft without high deflection.
Lots of cue makers make cues in the 20-23% weight ratio. Just start looking at the custom cues from the best names
in cue making. The example cited about a 20 ounce cue…..18% is a 3.6 ounce shaft, 19% is 3.8 ozs, 20% is 4.0 ozs, 21% is 4.2 oz shaft, 22% is a 4.4 oz. shaft & 23% (which is the max of the weight percentage scale) would be 4.6 ozs.
IMO…..20-21% seems to be the best range which is how the majority of my cues were built, except the ‘85 Schon cue.

Look at the cues made by George Balabushka, Gus or Barry Szamboti, Joel Hercek, Bob Manzino, Bob Owen, Bill Stroud,
Ed Prewitt, Richard Black, Tim Scruggs….gosh, just look at the best names in cue making and they all followed this guide.

Sure, somewhere someone will point to a cue they might have made and it had 3.4 oz. shafts on a 15.5 oz butt. But
that is the exception, not the rule. And keep in mind the the weight of the shaft is increased by the brass receiver when
the joint is piloted whereas flat wood joints, which all my ivory joint cues have, the weight is just wood, ferrule and tip.
So a 4.25 oz flat faced wood shaft with the same size and taper as a piloted shaft naturally uses more or heavier wood.

Ernie Gutierrez made a video about his shop a long time ago and he has barrels containing old growth wood dowls
he uses for special custom cues. It is old growth wood and it has more density and weighs more than the same size wood dowls available today. It’s also worth a lot more too because there aren’t a lot of 90 -150 years old trees still being cut.

If you get the chance to speak with any of the top names in cue making, they usually do not make cues with shafts that
do not fall within the weight range I’ve been preaching for over a decade. And know what? Not one cue maker I’ve ever
spoken with disagreed with my observation about shaft weight being matched to the butt weight. I’ve seen some cues
listed for sale that had a 15.5 oz butt and 3.4 oz shafts. And that same cue was flipped multiple times fairly quickly too.

Kinda tells ya something. Now you don’t need to take my word for it. Try contacting Jerry Rauenzahn and ask him. He’s
retired now so he doesn’t have any skin in the game any longer so to speak. He’ll tell you what I’m trying to but much better. Speak with any cue maker with a long waiting list for new orders. It means they are very popular and successful.
If you get the opportunity to test this in person, you’ll learn firsthand the subtle difference in balance and feel that’s real.
 
A shaft should weigh a minimum of 18% of the cue’s playing weight.
That should be the minimum but going higher tends to be work better.

20-23% is the ideal weight range. The better cue makers adhere to this too.
The best cue makers do not use heavy weight bolts to hit the target weight.

Most players know most of the terms that represent the components in a pool
cue but they really do not understand pool cue anatomy or the nuances therein.
Yes, it seems 15 OZ and 4 OZ on butt vs. shaft is a very popular combination - or some very close variations within .4OZ more for each. 19 to 19.8 OZ total weight is a very popular range for total cue weights.
 
The key is not relying on a heavy weight bolt to deliver the customer’s requested weight.
I’ve seen single bolts weighing more than an ounce. At least use headless 1/4 oz. bolts
and core the butt so the bolts can be positioned instead of just screwing it in the bottom.

Personally, no weight bolt is the way to go….IMO…..and a couple of my cues are like that.
All of my ivory cues have butts weighing 14.5, except for the EP which is 14.8. My Schon,
well forget about it, it’s a beast (20.7 ozs). Thicker handle, piloted steel joint….but back at
that time when I ordered it, I had zero experience playing with ivory joint cues. I tried some
that were lighter in weight. Well, I was hooked and as you can see, I might have overdone it.

You can only play with one cue at a time. If you’re fortunate, and find a cue you really like,
then one is all you’ll ever need. But the same is true of handguns and rifles. And know what?
I did the exact same thing. Got way more than I need. So I justify it by rationalizing I have four
children and a grandson, plus likely more down the road sometime. I’d had better stock up.
So I did but down deep, it was always about what I wanted but at some point ya just gotta stop.
But I still look & admire new cues being released and the excitement of having a custom cue made.
 
The key is not relying on a heavy weight bolt to deliver the customer’s requested weight.
I’ve seen single bolts weighing more than an ounce. At least use headless 1/4 oz. bolts
and core the butt so the bolts can be positioned instead of just screwing it in the bottom.

Personally, no weight bolt is the way to go….IMO…..and a couple of my cues are like that.
All of my ivory cues have butts weighing 14.5, except for the EP which is 14.8. My Schon,
well forget about it, it’s a beast (20.7 ozs). Thicker handle, piloted steel joint….but back at
that time when I ordered it, I had zero experience playing with ivory joint cues. I tried some
that were lighter in weight. Well, I was hooked and as you can see, I might have overdone it.

You can only play with one cue at a time. If you’re fortunate, and find a cue you really like,
then one is all you’ll ever need. But the same is true of handguns and rifles. And know what?
I did the exact same thing. Got way more than I need. So I justify it by rationalizing I have four
children and a grandson, plus likely more down the road sometime. I’d had better stock up.
So I did but down deep, it was always about what I wanted but at some point ya just gotta stop.
But I still look & admire new cues being released and the excitement of having a custom cue made.
I've had a lot of cues with wt. bolts. All played great. A lot of this is just in one's head.
 
There is nothing wrong with a weight bolt per se. I even mentioned that the best way….IMO….to utilize
weight bolts is to use headless bolts in small weight amounts. But when the cue has a ounce weight bolt
screwed in the bottom, it affects the balance and feel more than most players would imagine or admit.

Play with that same cue without any bolt and you’d see the difference quickly. But again, it comes to what
you like. I’m just saying for more than 4 decades I played with piloted steel joint cues. Then I switched after
finding something that was better suited for me. Perhaps not you or lots of other players but it works for me.

I was simply passing along information in case anyone was ordering a custom and you can discuss what I
wrote with your cue maker. But especially for folks buying cues in the secondary market. Just shop smart.
 
You can only play with one cue at a time. If you’re fortunate, and find a cue you really like,
then one is all you’ll ever need.

I've got about ten cues of varying dimensions, but I only acquired them with what you say in mind
ultimately, I'd like to find a set of cue dimensions that fits me as well as could be..that's the goal
and I'm getting closer- I've learned a lot via trial and error, and of course from you good folks here

the shaft/overall cue weight ratio is an interesting idea. I've used other ratios to learn about what I like
now, the shaft I'm using is nearly 27% of the overall cue's weight, and that number might be going up
if I continue with the heavy shaft, the weight ratio will always be 20+%, as I don't like a heavy cue
I appreciate tradition and history, but I also appreciate experimentation, and breaking the "rules"
like fatboy said above, "try everything, enjoy"- that's what I'm into, and that's where I'm headed

thanks all for the replies-
 
Interesting discussion. I have several cues from well-known makers (Scruggs, Rauenzhan, Frey, Nitti), and I recorded the weight of the butt and shafts of each. But I never calculated the shaft-to-butt weight ratio. I just checked, and all of the shafts are right around 20 percent of the total cue weight.

My Nitti cue is an interesting case. When I got it, the butt was 15.6 ounces and the shafts were 3.6 and 3.9 ounces—a bigger difference in weight than I would have expected. It turns out that there was a .9 ounce weight bolt in the butt. The shaft-to-cue ratio is right around 20 percent with the following combinations: 3.9 ounce shaft with the weight bolt and 3.6 ounce shaft without the weight bolt. I had been playing with the lighter shaft and the weight bolt in, and it didn’t feel right. After I took out the weight bolt, it felt much better. At some point, I’ll have to try the heavier shaft with the weight bolt.
 
I've got about ten cues of varying dimensions, but I only acquired them with what you say in mind
ultimately, I'd like to find a set of cue dimensions that fits me as well as could be..that's the goal
and I'm getting closer- I've learned a lot via trial and error, and of course from you good folks here

the shaft/overall cue weight ratio is an interesting idea. I've used other ratios to learn about what I like
now, the shaft I'm using is nearly 27% of the overall cue's weight, and that number might be going up
if I continue with the heavy shaft, the weight ratio will always be 20+%, as I don't like a heavy cue
I appreciate tradition and history, but I also appreciate experimentation, and breaking the "rules"
like fatboy said above, "try everything, enjoy"- that's what I'm into, and that's where I'm headed

thanks all for the replies-
After reading your post, it dawns on me that I probably should clarify something.
The weight ratios I presented relates to wood cue butts and shafts. I would have
otherwise thought that was implied when I mentioned old growth wood but today
so many players use a version of a carbon shaft that I should make the distinction.

I have zero experience with synthetic shafts or butts. My entire relationship with
pool is pretty old school. Not only do I like that as a cue design, I only play maple
shafts. Squirt is something that if you changed it much, after playing for 60 years,
I’d be at a big disadvantage so ain’t no way I’d ever switch to carbon fiber shafts.
 
After reading your post, it dawns on me that I probably should clarify something.
The weight ratios I presented relates to wood cue butts and shafts. I would have
otherwise thought that was implied when I mentioned old growth wood but today
so many players use a version of a carbon shaft that I should make the distinction.

I'm with you. I tried cf a few years ago and it played well, but I prefer the feel of wood.

I never calculated the shaft-to-butt weight ratio.

your use of this terminology just reminded me that I have done these calculations before..
from a feel perspective, I'd figured that a ~30/70 shaft/butt weight ratio felt good to me
this said, now that weight on my bridge hand has occurred to me, I'm not sure 30/70 is still it
I think balance also plays a part. I came up with an overall balance point % that I like as well
and then there's individual shaft and butt balance points..but yea, "just play pool," too ^_^
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1921.JPG
    IMG_1921.JPG
    174.3 KB · Views: 113
Back
Top