Help, my rail bolts are falling on the floor!

[michael4]

One rail (so far) has a couple loose rail bolts, they cant be tightened because the whole bolt and the "sleeve" for lack of a better word, falls out.

Home depot doesnt sell these kind of sleeves, I dont know how to fix this, I think the sleeve has stripped out of the wood, do I find a thicker sleeve? Do I try to re-use the old sleeve with lots of wood glue? or ??

Thank you in advance!!

(edit, this is a used table, and I assume someone in the past over-tightened the bolts, which led to pulling the sleeves out of the wood, my installer used an impact wrench, so he probably did it, but he is long gone)

 

[bdorman]

If you're not handy with tools it's probably best left to a professional. IMHO any good finish carpenter could do it. Basically just drill out the holes, fill with glued-in dowel rod, re-drill the holes and re-set the sleeves. Making sure the new hole placement is perfect is the tricky part.

I'm not a table mechanic and maybe they'll chime in with a different opinion.

 

[rexus31]

Impact wrench? Good God!

 

[michael4]

Impact wrench? Good God!

yes, I watched him use a hand held (battery powered) "impact wrench" is what I would call it.....

Anyway, I'm capable of installing wood dowels if thats what it takes, I was hoping there would be something easier. ?

 

[3kushn]

Those inserts most certainly are @ the Depot (in the specialty fastener drawers) but in no way will they be strong enough to hold down a rail. If your table is worth anything you need a qualified table mechanic for this repair. I'm not one of those. Just know a bit about fasteners. I've used these to hang skirts on an antique table where the original screws weren't in the hardware bag. Even glueing then in there were problems. That's a whole other story as to why but the main reason is the wood can't take what's required using those.

 

[kyther]

Replacing inserts

An easier and more effective way to remedy this table is to replace the existing inserts with stafast inserts. Go to a 3/8 x 16 tpi so that there is no need to fill the old hole with glue, dowels etc. Simply enlarge the existing hole with a plunger router and screw in the new insert. Stafast inserts are installed with a hex bit (like a hex key) so they are much easier to use than those inferior inserts that are set with a flat screwdriver. You will have to replace the rail bolts too (3/8 x 16 tpi) but they are cheap and easy to find locally. Might as well add some domed lock washers while you are at it. You can PM me for the inserts and washers if you decide to go this route. Thanks, Kerry

 

[michael4]

Thanks for all the comments! I guess the original "insert" system may not be the best way to go...

PM SENT......

 

[fastone371]

Stay away from the big box stores and go to a regular hardware store, I am sure they will have what you need or can at least point you in the direction of help. Its hard to get good info out of someone who doesnt like their job and earns minimun wage.

 

[kyther]

Replacing stripped out inserts


Here is a picture of the inserts we use. The one on the left is for 5/16 x 18 tpi rail bolts and the one on the right is for 3/8 x 16 tpi rail bolts. Also pictured are the drivers we use to install the inserts. Actually, if I am installing a complete set of them, I use an impact.

First, a new pilot hole is either drilled or routered. Be sure to set up your tool with a stop of some kind so you don't accidentially drill through the top of the rail. The correct pilot hole for the 5/16" insert is 15/32" and the correct pilot hole for the 3/8 insert is 5/8". Next, I flood the edges of the pilot hole with superglue and then quickly install the insert with the impact. MAKE SURE YOU ARE DRIVING THE INSERT STRAIGHT IN-YOU ONLY GET ONE SHOT AT THIS AND A CROOKED INSERT IS A DISASTER. The superglue keeps the insert from spinning out over time.

Many times the original hole for the 5/16 insert has been so wallowed out that I just upgrade the table to 3/8 inserts. (As a side note, the 3/8 inserts work great for on-site repair of Gold Crown pocket casting inserts -a topic for another day, but I did leave an earlier post on it.)

The other item in the pic is a domed lock washer. These are used by many manufacturers for their rail bolts and they work great. The one in the picture is for a 3/8 bolt. (tip number two: these washers also work great for tightening down Valley pocket castings)
Thanks, Kerry

 

[tsp&b]

I think Kerry probably has the correct answer but there are other options available.

 

[ROB.M]

Table

I think Kerry probably has the correct answer but there are other options available.

View attachment 250104

View attachment 250105

View attachment 250106

-
-
Kerry has the best fix, the rail nut plates will have to be set in to the rail by removing wood with a router.
If your not as fast as superglue like Kerry is with setting inserts then use a slower setting glue/epoxy' to set the insets in.
Kerry just gave you some very expert advise. he is a true profeshional, has lots of his skill and knowledge.
Nice work.
-
Rob.M