Help Needed - BCA Industry Poll

[MikeJanis]

For those that need more information about how the BCA helps local pool rooms and our sport. Please view post #4 in this thread below.

The Poll is closed but you can always add a comment to this thread. Thanks, Mj


OK guys and gals I need your help.

Please answer the Poll questions.

Believe it or not, you responses will be viewed by many people that help shape organized cue sports.

Please answer honestly.




Thanks,

Mj


PS. This POLL ends Monday the 21st. Please cast a vote.

 

[MikeJanis]

Whoops, I forgot one poll question.

Here it is:

Q: If the BCA steps up and helps to create an organized tour that creates a clear and precise path for players to acieve professional status:

A:

1. I will participate every chance I get.

2. This is the opportunity I have been looking for.

3. I will be happy to participate as a supporter / spectator.

4. I just want top bang balls around not compete.

 

[1pocket]

I guess my first question is, where the hell have they been all these years? It sure would be ABOUT TIME if the BCA could prod their membership into actually putting together and financially backing a significant professional tour.

Can anyone name any other industry association that so absolutely ignores the best athletes in their sport??

Next question, what do you suppose are the chances the BCA would attempt to use their new found player leverage (should they get a significant tour up and running) to pressure their player members not to play in un-BCA-sanctioned events -- events the BCA would want to charge $$ to sanction, of course???

Tread cautiously, players.

Now if, BIG IF, the BCA does get together a major tour, AND they don't attempt to pressure the smaller promoters and non-BCA players, then I happily eat my words -- please serve me crow

 

[MikeJanis]

For thos that need more information about how the BCA helps local pool rooms and our sport. Please check out the links below.

EnjoyPool.com 9-Ball Championships
http://www.bca.affiniscape.com/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=20

BCA EXPO
http://www.bcaexpo.com/

BCA Instructor Program
http://www.bca.affiniscape.com/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=5

Room Operator/Pool Room Search
http://www.bca.affiniscape.com/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=67

Pocket Billiards Rules and Specifications
http://www.bca.affiniscape.com/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=54

BCA Announces Formation of WPA Committee
Information available in the BCA Break News Lette
http://www.bca.affiniscape.com/associations/7744/files/1207_December.pdf

ASSOCIATION HEALTH PROGRAMS
Information available in the BCA Member Update
http://www.bca-pool.com/industry/membership/07updates/update_v4n19.shtml
This nationwide program includes health insurance, life insurance, long-term care insurance, cancer coverage, accident insurance, disability income, critical illness, dental insurance, vision and more! AHP, of Overland Park, Kansas, has been retained to administer the program. Stuart Pase, president and certified senior advisor, welcomes all BCA members to take advantage of these special benefits, protection, underwriting and pricing.

The BCA sponsors the BEF "Billiard Education Foundation" by donating $50,000 per year.
http://www.billiardeducation.org/

BCA Hall of Fame
http://www.bca.affiniscape.com/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=4

There is plenty more on the www.BCA-Pool.com website

 

[MikeJanis]

I guess my first question is, where the hell have they been all these years? It sure would be ABOUT TIME if the BCA could prod their membership into actually putting together and financially backing a significant professional tour.

Can anyone name any other industry association that so absolutely ignores the best athletes in their sport??

Next question, what do you suppose are the chances the BCA would attempt to use their new found player leverage (should they get a significant tour up and running) to pressure their player members not to play in un-BCA-sanctioned events -- events the BCA would want to charge $$ to sanction, of course???

Tread cautiously, players.

Now if, BIG IF, the BCA does get together a major tour, AND they don't attempt to pressure the smaller promoters and non-BCA players, then I happily eat my words -- please serve me crow

Well, Hopefully and I mean hopefully, after my presentation to the BCA next month I'll cook the Crow for'ya.

But in the meantime please help in a constructive way. Any ideas you have to share or positive thoughts please let me know.

You can always PM or Email me.

Thanks,

Mj

 

[1pocket]

Well, Hopefully and I mean hopefully, after my presentation to the BCA next month I'll cook the Crow for'ya.

But in the meantime please help in a constructive way. Any ideas you have to share or positive thoughts please let me know.

You can always PM or Email me.

Thanks,

Mj

For a constructive suggestion I would definitelty reiterate: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't use such a tour to divide pool players and promoters by trying to coerce membership/sanctioning fees.

Mike, I absolutely mean this as a positive suggestion -- our sport is littered with probably more than fifty years worth of failed organizational attempts that have tried those very divisive tactics. I wish the BCA all the best as long as they stay away from the strong arm tactics!

 

[MikeJanis]

For a constructive suggestion I would definitelty reiterate: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't use such a tour to divide pool players and promoters by trying to coerce membership/sanctioning fees.

Mike, I absolutely mean this as a positive suggestion -- our sport is littered with probably more than fifty years worth of failed organizational attempts that have tried those very divisive tactics. I wish the BCA all the best as long as they stay away from the strong arm tactics!

Well, I cant give away the whole proposal at the moment but for the regional tour to join the only fee would be that any room that hosts a qualifying event become a BCA room owner member. That is only a fee of $150 a year to the pool rooms. I will not be asking for any fees from the promoters or players at this level. Only when we have a Pro System will the system ask for a small membership fee (No more than $100 per year from the players that participate at level 2 and above).

Like I mentioned in other threads. This will start off asking for minimal funding then progress as the system gains strength, acceptance and profits for all the players involved.

At no time does the system I will be proposing ask the promoters to pay any additional fees. If that time comes it would only be that when the regional tours host a qualifying event that the qualified players entry fees into the next level be deducted from the winnings at the event and only if the player agrees to have that money deducted and/or it would be set-up like the WPBA Regional tour system where the entry fee is part of the prize fund. These are needed options that will be voted on by the Regional Tour Directors/Promoters.


The 4 levels of the system are set-up like this.

Level 1 Participating Regional Tours become qualifiers for Level 2
Level 2 8 Regional Professional Events (All with a minimum $25,000 GUARANTEED ADDED + Entry Fees)
Level 3 Televised event (1 the 1st and 2nd year and 2 the 3rd -5th year) Guaranteed at these minimums.
To get to level 3 you have to be in the top 32/64/96/128? ranked from level 2. Once you achieve level 3 you are automatically qualified for Level 2 the next year and do not have to re-qualify to participate in level 2 but will have to maintain a top ranking to go to level 3 again. If you don't re-qualify you have to start over at level 1.
Level 4 this is open at this time but the hopes are that the top players from level 3 will gain acceptance to participate in WPA events and that will also be the only way for the players to get to this level.

Now on this note: I have talked to the promoters of the other regional tours and they have agreed to participate when we have levels 2 and 3 funded. We will not be doing anything until we have guarantees on those 2 levels.

In addition, this system will alllow other promoters to participate in the hopes of increasing all of the levels. It will be an open loop system that will not shun away any promoters by charging them outrageous fees to participate.

 

[1pocket]

Well, I cant give away the whole proposal at the moment but for the regional tour to join the only fee would be that any room that hosts a qualifying event become a BCA room owner member. That is only a fee of $150 a year to the pool rooms. I will not be asking for any fees from the promoters or players at this level. Only when we have a Pro System will the system ask for a small membership fee (No more than $100 per year from the players that participate at level 2 and above).

Like I mentioned in other threads. This will start off asking for minimal funding then progress as the system gains strength, acceptance and profits for all the players involved.

At no time does the system I will be proposing ask the promoters to pay any additional fees. If that time comes it would only be that when the regional tours host a qualifying event that the qualified players entry fees into the next level be deducted from the winnings at the event and only if the player agrees to have that money deducted and/or it would be set-up like the WPBA Regional tour system where the entry fee is part of the prize fund. These are needed options that will be voted on by the Regional Tour Directors/Promoters.


The 4 levels of the system are set-up like this.

Level 1 Participating Regional Tours become qualifiers for Level 2
Level 2 8 Regional Professional Events (All with a minimum $25,000 GUARANTEED ADDED + Entry Fees)
Level 3 Televised event (1 the 1st and 2nd year and 2 the 3rd -5th year) Guaranteed at these minimums.
To get to level 3 you have to be in the top 32/64/96/128? ranked from level 2. Once you achieve level 3 you are automatically qualified for Level 2 the next year and do not have to re-qualify to participate in level 2 but will have to maintain a top ranking to go to level 3 again. If you don't re-qualify you have to start over at level 1.
Level 4 this is open at this time but the hopes are that the top players from level 3 will gain acceptance to participate in WPA events and that will also be the only way for the players to get to this level.

Now on this note: I have talked to the promoters of the other regional tours and they have agreed to participate when we have levels 2 and 3 funded. We will not be doing anything until we have guarantees on those 2 levels.

In addition, this system will alllow other promoters to participate in the hopes of increasing all of the levels. It will be an open loop system that will not shun away any promoters by charging them outrageous fees to participate.

I would hope your proposed tour has major financial support coming from the BCA manufacturer members, and this isn't being proposed as yet another primarily player and room funded venture. I don't see anything about anticipated industry support in your post... If the industry giants aren't going to kick in significantly, then why not just work with the UPA?

 

[MikeJanis]

I would hope your proposed tour has major financial support coming from the BCA manufacturer members, and this isn't being proposed as yet another primarily player and room funded venture. I don't see anything about anticipated industry support in your post... If the industry giants aren't going to kick in significantly, then why not just work with the UPA?

At this point in the proposal the idea does not call for outside support and will not rely on funding from that avenue. As the tour goes forward the natural path will be to include additional funding from the industry giants but in the beginning it will not rely on that funding for its success. Additionally, this is not set up to be funded by the players, the regional tours or the room owners. The funding for levels 2 and 3 will come directly from the BCA over a 5 year period and will be used accordinglng to have the events on those specific levels. Once the tour and format are established it would be at that time that additional funding will stream in from the other industry sponsors. Once that step is accomplished the monies and/or number of events on levels 2 and 3 will increase without being a burdon on the players, room owners or regional tours.

The idea behind this is to create a tour with cinsistant solid base on which to expand upon and to create a clear and concise path for which players can establish professional status.

 

[MikeJanis]

At this point in the proposal the idea does not call for outside support and will not rely on funding from that avenue. As the tour goes forward the natural path will be to include additional funding from the industry giants but in the beginning it will not rely on that funding for its success. Additionally, this is not set up to be funded by the players, the regional tours or the room owners. The funding for levels 2 and 3 will come directly from the BCA over a 5 year period and will be used accordinglng to have the events on those specific levels. Once the tour and format are established it would be at that time that additional funding will stream in from the other industry sponsors. Once that step is accomplished the monies and/or number of events on levels 2 and 3 will increase without being a burdon on the players, room owners or regional tours.

The idea behind this is to create a tour with cinsistant solid base on which to expand upon and to create a clear and concise path for which players can establish professional status.

I should also add to the above that in the proposal, funding for the tour after the initail 5 years will rely upon a portion of any additional funding that is received through any means of the tour operation in the 1st 5 years until a second term of 5 years on the same basis as the 1st 5 is met. Once this basic guideline is met we will at that time increase revenues to the remainder of the 1st five years on a 50% basis with the remaining 50% going towards the 2nd 5 years. This is to ensure the longevity and growth of the system.

This basically comes down to a 10 year system that is Jump Started (Funded) by the industry to help insure its success and future growth for our sport.

This system will affect many segments of our industry that will enhance the growth of our sport to insure a prosperous future for everyone in the industry.

 

[9balllvr]

Mike,
There are already two pro tours out there. I would suggest that the BCA back what currently exists and make them stronger. Everyone is always trying to create new tours, maybe if the ones that existed had sponsorships, they wouldnt struggle as they do.

9balllvr

 

[MikeJanis]

Mike,
There are already two pro tours out there. I would suggest that the BCA back what currently exists and make them stronger. Everyone is always trying to create new tours, maybe if the ones that existed had sponsorships, they wouldnt struggle as they do.

9balllvr

What are the 2 pro tours ?

Also, what are the systems they have in place for players to earn professional status while at the same time benefiting the growth of cuesports and the industry they represent ?


I'll jump out and put myself on a limb. 1 of the tours you are suggesting is most likely the UPA. Now let me state, I have nothing against the UPA. They served a purpose as an association for the players and thats it. They technically do not have many if any events of their own. They are an organization of the players that agree that promoters must post up guaranteed money added to events so the UPA players are protected. A few things they have failed at doing are A: Holding and promoting regular events that require players to earn their status as a professional. B: Failed to encourage the growth of professional pool by not working in a combined effort to attract new players to the professional ranks through an organized system. C: failed to work with or around long standing events and promoters. With the tactics they used against some promoters or standing events they alienated the UPA association which has prevented them from potential growth. Right now the only thing they have going for them is their point structure for the players and even that has been comprimised by having invitation only events. It's pretty much common knowledge among people inside the industry that the UPA will not gain the mass support of the industry to forward their goals. It's unfortunate but their past track record has severely damaged much of their future potential to be THE tour. I wisk Mr. Alvarez the best of luck in trying to go forward with moving the UPA into the future.

I'll also assume (Hoping not to make an Ass of U an ME) that the 2nd tour is the WPBA. I don't know what to say about that. They have done a pretty good job with their organization and I wish them much success in the future. Seven televised events, a solid structure of regional qualifying tours, a clear path for players to earn their professional status, guaranteed added money to their tv events, 100+ hours (maybe more) on ESPN. WOW ! They got it goin on. Do they really need further assistance from the BCA?

I really do not want to get into a debate about what other tours have or have not done. I am positive I missed some good and bad points about both of the above tours I mentioned. Some may even think I'm outta line with what I say about them but It's just the way it is. I'll take any heat you want to throw at me but please start a new thread if you want to slam me. Taht way we can keep things on an even keel.

Now with all that said. If there is anyway we can all benefit from a new tour and working with any existing PRO or Amateur tour I am all for it. I look forward to any contact from any tour that wants to make things better for everyone. I am sure together we can come up with some way to work together that would benefit the industry and the players.

Right now, I am trying to gather support for a base organization that would help every tour and the BCA grow, not just 1. By doing this I expect that many Regional and National tours will grow and enhance our sport. If this takes off it will help remove some burdon from Tour Promoters, Room Owners, Sponsors and organize our functions to better serve all players and supporters of our sport. This is a program for the many, not the few.

With the way things have been going in our sport now is the time to take two steps back, stop and look around at what is needed to secure a strong future. Yes, the BIG money will not be there in the beginning but there will be something guaranteed to build upon once the full system is in effect. Right now we have almost everything we need except the funding and full support of the BCA which represents a large segment of our industry. With or without a major outside industry corporate sponsor there is no way for pool to prosper from the ground level all the way to the World events for many years into the future without the support and strength of the BCA. With this in mind, I would again like to ask each and evey one of you to please support this endeavor.

It may not be the only way but right now it wouldn't hurt to have it.



Mj

 

[9balllvr]

you are correct in assuming that the two tours I speak of are the WPBA and the UPA. the WPBA has made tremendous strides over many years - this has allowed them to build support from the regional tours, etc. i would agree that the one thing lacking is the major sponsorship to boost the prize funds.

in regard to the UPA tour - the one thing that i would say is that the tour has suffered obstacles from the deeds of past tour heads. to this day, the assumption that Charlie Williams runs the tour still baffles me. he has not been a part of the tour since approx. 6 years ago, with the exception of promoting stops here and there. because of this nasty taste in people's mouth, it has been a struggle for the tour to expand, much less prosper and offer huge payouts, but they still remain. if the support was behind them, that might be different. you are correct to state that there is not a precise path to becoming a professional, but you would also have to note that just because you pay a professional tour membership, it doesn't make you a professional player.

you and I have communicated enough for you to know that i am passionate about this sport and I want to see it grow. but, my question to you is what are you offering that is different than what exists? and why not put the backing and structure behind what exists now instead of reinventing the wheel? i have to admit, i don't know how you intend to pull all of this together - between your tour, the BCA board, and now pro tours, i'm exhausted and i don't have to do anything. but nonetheless, i wish you great success as i would love to see nothing more than the players get paid for their talents in the sport they love.

 

[9balllvr]

duplicate post

 

[MikeJanis]

you are correct in assuming that the two tours I speak of are the WPBA and the UPA. the WPBA has made tremendous strides over many years - this has allowed them to build support from the regional tours, etc. i would agree that the one thing lacking is the major sponsorship to boost the prize funds.

in regard to the UPA tour - the one thing that i would say is that the tour has suffered obstacles from the deeds of past tour heads. to this day, the assumption that Charlie Williams runs the tour still baffles me. he has not been a part of the tour since approx. 6 years ago, with the exception of promoting stops here and there. because of this nasty taste in people's mouth, it has been a struggle for the tour to expand, much less prosper and offer huge payouts, but they still remain. if the support was behind them, that might be different. you are correct to state that there is not a precise path to becoming a professional, but you would also have to note that just because you pay a professional tour membership, it doesn't make you a professional player.

you and I have communicated enough for you to know that i am passionate about this sport and I want to see it grow. but, my question to you is what are you offering that is different than what exists? and why not put the backing and structure behind what exists now instead of reinventing the wheel? i have to admit, i don't know how you intend to pull all of this together - between your tour, the BCA board, and now pro tours, i'm exhausted and i don't have to do anything. but nonetheless, i wish you great success as i would love to see nothing more than the players get paid for their talents in the sport they love.

Simply, nothing currently exists in the format I am presenting. Specifically for the men. I also want to state that the program I am presenting is neither just for Men or Women. It is an open format than anyone can compete in. My structure pulls together many different programs that currently exist but at the same time relieves the players, other tours, the room owners and the industry of many financial burdons while enhancing overall participation in our industry as a whole. Nobody has tried this before as an entire concept. Many parts of it currently exist independantly of each other. But this program will pull them together for the greater benefit of all. Additionally, because many of these pieces currently work independantly from each other they are part of the cause why we are not moving forward because of the many ways they compete against each other.

This isn't reinventing the wheel. This is the rim and the axle that the wheel would ride upon. The 5 year plan is the suspension that allows everything to work independantly of each other yet stay on a steady path so everything will move in the same direction.


I rarely ever sleep so I have plenty of time to do it. LOL ...


Thank you for your wish towards success.

Mj

 

[MikeJanis]

For the people that voted for: I need more information about how the BCA helps local pool rooms and our sport

Did post #4 in this thread help ?

 

[1pocket]

At this point in the proposal the idea does not call for outside support and will not rely on funding from that avenue. As the tour goes forward the natural path will be to include additional funding from the industry giants but in the beginning it will not rely on that funding for its success. Additionally, this is not set up to be funded by the players, the regional tours or the room owners. The funding for levels 2 and 3 will come directly from the BCA over a 5 year period and will be used accordinglng to have the events on those specific levels. Once the tour and format are established it would be at that time that additional funding will stream in from the other industry sponsors. Once that step is accomplished the monies and/or number of events on levels 2 and 3 will increase without being a burdon on the players, room owners or regional tours.

The idea behind this is to create a tour with cinsistant solid base on which to expand upon and to create a clear and concise path for which players can establish professional status.

Huh? No financial support from the industry giants?? That sounds like just more of the same old same old. Exactly what is the point of BCA involvement if they cannot motivate their own industry members to chip in?

 

[Hierovision]

Whoops, I forgot one poll question.

Here it is:

Q: If the BCA steps up and helps to create an organized tour that creates a clear and precise path for players to acieve professional status:

A:

1. I will participate every chance I get.

2. This is the opportunity I have been looking for.

3. I will be happy to participate as a supporter / spectator.

4. I just want top bang balls around not compete.

1 2 and 3 for me. I will support it as much as my situation will allow... and I definitely will compete.

 

[MikeJanis]

Huh? No financial support from the industry giants?? That sounds like just more of the same old same old. Exactly what is the point of BCA involvement if they cannot motivate their own industry members to chip in?

1pocket, you seem to be missing the point. The system does not rely on additional industry funding. The hopes would be to gain it but again, it does not need it to guarantee its success for the 1ST 5 years. If the system is to continue after the 1ST 5 years at that point it would be needed.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with me or the Viking Tour which I founded so I will update you. The Viking Tour relies on industry sponsorship and has since it's inception in 1994. Since that time we have had hundreds of different co-sponsors that have donated millions of dollars in product sponsorships which has enabled us to become the largest longest running Open regional Tour in the country. We use these sponsorships to compensate the room owners for putting up the money to host events with guaranteed money added to the events for the players.
This system has worked as well as can be expected for the type of sponsorships we have and looks like it will continue to grow for years to come.

Now back to the concept system. To kick start the system I will be asking the BCA to guarantee a minimal amount of funding which would guarantee monies added to events (Not Regional Tour Events) but 6-10 professional events per year for the next 5 years. These monies will guarantee that the system move in a forward direction without relying upon additional industry support while we explore new ways of funding the tour to continue its success into the future. Of course I have laid out several ways this would be possible but they are unknown factors and can not be relied upon until they are in place and functioning.

Now, lets get you up to speed on the funding from the BCA. Regardless of how you look at it the funding from the BCA comes directly from the Industry giants and otherwise. Most of the monies that the BCA has and makes comes from within the industry through memberships, trade shows and advertising. This concept will additionally help those BCA members that already sponsor tours or events on their own and streamline their monies into a more effective system that will benefit a greater number of them than if they were to do it independantly of each other. Thus by doing this we can all work together for the purpose of furtheirng the gwowth of cuesports here in the US.

For the BCA and all of its members this is a win, win situation. This system will enhance the longterm goals of the BCA by inspiring new members and coordinating the monies it already spends in other seperate methods to producde these effects in a more effecient manner while at the same time breathing new life into the organization and bringing it to new heights in the industry.

Mj

 

[SJDinPHX]

Bca

Mike, Bottom line is you are probably flogging a dead horse. The BCA has allready proven they are only looking at improving their bottom line financially. (much the same as Donald Trump.)Your efforts may be commendable but until you can reach the antiquated hiarchy of the BCA
our sport will languish where it has (as one pocket said) " for the
last fifty years" under their (sic)guidance!!!!!