Help please correcting flaw with my technique (Video)

Herbie

New member
Hi, after taking some videos I've just noticed some flaws with my stroke, I'd like to ask for recommendations into how I can correct.
Please see the video here.
The centre of the camera is directly above a corner pocket and the shot is a straight in shot.
Seems the butt of my Cue is off to my right as I line up the shots, do my feathers and on the backswing, then I swoop across to my left during final delivery.
I've been playing cue sports for over 30years but just switched to snooker in the last year or so. Practicing every day but not improving and have just noticed this technique flaw so any help on how I can correct it, any exercise recommendations would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Herbie.
 

Leigh

Registered
I'm no expert BY ANY MEANS, but your head is tilted to the left. Personally, when I fixed this flaw in my own game my stroke improved.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I think you have two possible paths.

You could live with the ingrained flaw and work on good drills to improve your accuracy. I think you will see improvement with the right exercises.

You could try to fix the flaw. This may not be possible. Often problems like this occur because your head is in the wrong place and you do not see a straight shot as straight. Instead you see a crooked shot as straight and then your arm does what it needs to do to make the shot. There are several methods available online to help get your head to the location where a straight shot looks straight to you.

If the shot had been truly straight in the video, you would have scratched. I urge you to get some "donuts" for positioning and make absolutely sure they are in the correct place when you are working on alignment.
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's impossible to tell exactly what's going on from only one vantage point. I'd like to see a side and rear viewpoint as well.
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Hello Herbie and welcome to AZ Forums,

Your video's pre-shot routine consistently starts with your arm on the shot line then you walk into the stance with, as mentioned above, some issues. I recommend your start sighting/standing with your navel behind the shot line instead, not the right arm. (I start this way then move my right foot a bit so that my vision center comes onto the shot line while I step into the stance).

This will start to help you with head tilt and sighting.

And to test your vision center, stance over the table so that your cue stick is splitting the diamonds on a rail and I mean EXACTLY splitting them in twain. Stance with a level, non-tilted head (rotation bringing an eye closer to the cue tip than the other is fine, but tilting is wrong). Ensure you can see the cue stick sighting straight down the rail, splitting those diamonds.

Note that as you now leave your hands and cue in place but move your head laterally left or right, the cue seems to be off the diamonds. Once you find your vision center, ensure that's over all shots going forward. Dr. Dave has more on this key:
 

Herbie

New member
Hi Everyone, thanks for taking the time to provide your feedback.
Bob Jewett, thanks, I've taken a look at the vision center video linked by Matt Sherman, seems like this could be big part of my problem along with head tilt thanks Leigh.
Fran, I have uploaded some front
, side
, and rear
videos. Hope they help and thanks for your time, much appreciated.

G'day from Sydney Australia.
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I only watched the first 2 shots of your first video
Both the cue ball followed the object ball in the pocket
Great job
Did you see my. PM?
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi Everyone, thanks for taking the time to provide your feedback.
Bob Jewett, thanks, I've taken a look at the vision center video linked by Matt Sherman, seems like this could be big part of my problem along with head tilt thanks Leigh.
Fran, I have uploaded some front
, side
, and rear
videos. Hope they help and thanks for your time, much appreciated.

G'day from Sydney Australia.
Great! I see it now. Take a look at the side view and compare your setup in the first two shots. No worries. This is an easy fix. In the first shot (the one you missed) as you settled into your stance, your weight shifted slightly forward. In the second shot, you settled more into your back heel and did not shift forward. So your feet were positioned slightly off on the first shot and correct on the second shot. It doesn't take much to cause a miss, especially in snooker. You don't have the same margin for error.

In the first setup you were crowding the line of the shot a bit with your torso. I think your back foot may have been a little past the line of the shot. When you lean forward like that, it's often an indication of possible crowding. (You can see how close your cue is to your torso from the back view) When you crowd it too much, that can cause you to jam your cue too much into your torso and force you to make an adjustment in mid-stroke to finish the stroke. I know that snooker players like to use their chest as a touch point to keep the cue straight, but, even so, too close isn't good. You still have to have an unimpeded stroke.

The solution: Just make sure you set up carefully for every shot. Plant your back foot on the line of the shot and not past it. You're doing it right often, so you just have to be aware of what doing it right feels like. Also make sure your left foot is planted correctly as well. The less the angle between the two feet, the more sideways you're standing towards your cue. With the cue placed under your right eye, you don't need to stand sideways to your cue (...not that you are, especially. These are small adjustments). Your second setup in that side view shot looks very good. Strive for something like that.
 
Last edited:

WobblyStroke

Well-known member
Ye the difference between the first two shots is your balance and spacing as Fran mentioned. It is easy to tell that your feet (esp back foot) are farther back on the first shot (a bit out of frame with back foot) while your bridge hand is in the same spot on the table. That means you made up for the foot position by lunging forward and throwing yourself out of balance and alignment a bit. The back leg is nice and vertical in your good second shot but more braced backwards and farther on the one where you were off. Easy fix indeed.

The rear view vid was more telling imo. Simply put, your grip needs work. Shot to shot, the cue behaves differently in your hand. It is subtle but noticeable. Especially since you are a snooker guy already, you can't go wrong with Barry Stark's coaching vids on YouTube. His series in the grip as well as how to set and train a consistent spacing between stance and bridge are both very excellent. I think the stance error you made in the side view just kinda happens sometimes when not paying attention and shouldn't bother you too often, but your grip must be addressed imo. Barry does a great job explaining it in detail and yours is already very close to what he recommends...just missing some details like his suggested ring finger timing and how to ensure to eliminate the bit of cue rotation you have sometimes.

Here's a link to a playlist by Barry Stark on grip.

Here's a coaching session with Barry regarding spacing and where to hold/bridge. Super basic but a decent lil technique to use till you have it all on automatic.
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ye the difference between the first two shots is your balance and spacing as Fran mentioned. It is easy to tell that your feet (esp back foot) are farther back on the first shot (a bit out of frame with back foot) while your bridge hand is in the same spot on the table. That means you made up for the foot position by lunging forward and throwing yourself out of balance and alignment a bit. The back leg is nice and vertical in your good second shot but more braced backwards and farther on the one where you were off. Easy fix indeed.

The rear view vid was more telling imo. Simply put, your grip needs work. Shot to shot, the cue behaves differently in your hand. It is subtle but noticeable. Especially since you are a snooker guy already, you can't go wrong with Barry Stark's coaching vids on YouTube. His series in the grip as well as how to set and train a consistent spacing between stance and bridge are both very excellent. I think the stance error you made in the side view just kinda happens sometimes when not paying attention and shouldn't bother you too often, but your grip must be addressed imo. Barry does a great job explaining it in detail and yours is already very close to what he recommends...just missing some details like his suggested ring finger timing and how to ensure to eliminate the bit of cue rotation you have sometimes.

Here's a link to a playlist by Barry Stark on grip.

Here's a coaching session with Barry regarding spacing and where to hold/bridge. Super basic but a decent lil technique to use till you have it all on automatic.
There you go again, commenting on my comment and even pointing out the same two shots that I did. To make matters worse, you negated my comment by saying his issue was that he was standing too far back. A lean on the front leg doesn't always mean the player is standing too far back. His cue is going off line because he's sometimes crowding the shot by placing his back foot beyond the shot line.

And please don't mention my name in the same post as recommending your friend Barry Stark's grip. That unnecessary intentional opening and closing of the hand are extra movements that have no basis in logic.

Now go ahead and have the last say because there's no way I will debate you on anything.
 

Herbie

New member
Great! I see it now. Take a look at the side view and compare your setup in the first two shots. No worries. This is an easy fix. In the first shot (the one you missed) as you settled into your stance, your weight shifted slightly forward. In the second shot, you settled more into your back heel and did not shift forward. So your feet were positioned slightly off on the first shot and correct on the second shot. It doesn't take much to cause a miss, especially in snooker. You don't have the same margin for error.

In the first setup you were crowding the line of the shot a bit with your torso. I think your back foot may have been a little past the line of the shot. When you lean forward like that, it's often an indication of possible crowding. (You can see how close your cue is to your torso from the back view) When you crowd it too much, that can cause you to jam your cue too much into your torso and force you to make an adjustment in mid-stroke to finish the stroke. I know that snooker players like to use their chest as a touch point to keep the cue straight, but, even so, too close isn't good. You still have to have an unimpeded stroke.

The solution: Just make sure you set up carefully for every shot. Plant your back foot on the line of the shot and not past it. You're doing it right often, so you just have to be aware of what doing it right feels like. Also make sure your left foot is planted correctly as well. The less the angle between the two feet, the more sideways you're standing towards your cue. With the cue placed under your right eye, you don't need to stand sideways to your cue (...not that you are, especially. These are small adjustments). Your second setup in that side view shot looks very good. Strive for something like that.
Thanks Fran,
I will work on a consistent stance with my back foot not over the shot line and not crowd with my body. I think that may be why sometimes I cock my wrist in towards my body to adjust mid stroke at the end of the delivery, can see that from the rear view videos.
I'll also check my vision center as I think I could be a bit out there as well.
Thanks for your advice.
 

Herbie

New member
Ye the difference between the first two shots is your balance and spacing as Fran mentioned. It is easy to tell that your feet (esp back foot) are farther back on the first shot (a bit out of frame with back foot) while your bridge hand is in the same spot on the table. That means you made up for the foot position by lunging forward and throwing yourself out of balance and alignment a bit. The back leg is nice and vertical in your good second shot but more braced backwards and farther on the one where you were off. Easy fix indeed.

The rear view vid was more telling imo. Simply put, your grip needs work. Shot to shot, the cue behaves differently in your hand. It is subtle but noticeable. Especially since you are a snooker guy already, you can't go wrong with Barry Stark's coaching vids on YouTube. His series in the grip as well as how to set and train a consistent spacing between stance and bridge are both very excellent. I think the stance error you made in the side view just kinda happens sometimes when not paying attention and shouldn't bother you too often, but your grip must be addressed imo. Barry does a great job explaining it in detail and yours is already very close to what he recommends...just missing some details like his suggested ring finger timing and how to ensure to eliminate the bit of cue rotation you have sometimes.

Here's a link to a playlist by Barry Stark on grip.

Here's a coaching session with Barry regarding spacing and where to hold/bridge. Super basic but a decent lil technique to use till you have it all on automatic.
Thanks,
I'll check all that out.
Regards, Herbie.
 

WobblyStroke

Well-known member
There you go again, commenting on my comment and even pointing out the same two shots that I did. To make matters worse, you negated my comment by saying his issue was that he was standing too far back. A lean on the front leg doesn't always mean the player is standing too far back. His cue is going off line because he's sometimes crowding the shot by placing his back foot beyond the shot line.

And please don't mention my name in the same post as recommending your friend Barry Stark's grip. That unnecessary intentional opening and closing of the hand are extra movements that have no basis in logic.

Now go ahead and have the last say because there's no way I will debate you on anything.
Fran, I was agreeing with you. I mentioned the position of the back leg because it is obvious with how the video is framed...the entire leg is upright and in the shot on the good one and angled and farther back, slightly out of frame, on the first one. The extra lean this inconsistent foot position causes could very well be causing the possible crowding you mentioned. I thought your observations were astute and accurate and that is why I gave your comment a like before adding my comment. I just mentioned the leg bc it is so glaringly obvious in the framing. Didn't mean to ruin your day.

fwiw, as much as I would love to be friends with a great instructor like Barry, I've never met him. Just appreciate his excellent free content and don't mind steering people his way since one can do a lot worse than Barry. I'm not much of a furler and unfurler of fingers either, but this is a very common technique among many top snooker players. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it is illogical. It's simple really...hand stays on in a consistent manner, butt of the cue moves up more in the backswing. If the hand is allowed to open and close, the cue remains more level throughout the stroke. Logical enough for you? Seems to work for many pros. I'm sure they'll be super bummed you don't approve. I know Ronnie would be devestated...

Selby too

I'm actually not sure if you can find 5 players from the world championships that don't do this.
 
Last edited:

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks Fran,
I will work on a consistent stance with my back foot not over the shot line and not crowd with my body. I think that may be why sometimes I cock my wrist in towards my body to adjust mid stroke at the end of the delivery, can see that from the rear view videos.
I'll also check my vision center as I think I could be a bit out there as well.
Thanks for your advice.
Sure. Happy to help. Yes. Cocking your wrist inward is an indication of that as well. You don't always crowd the shot line, but when you do, you can develop a habit in your stroke that you may continue to use, even when you don't crowd the shot line. So even when you do stand properly, continue to make sure that your arm hanging down from your elbow moves straight along the line of the shot as well.

It's easy to fall into that approach trap, since our heads are centered on our bodies. Spend some time working on the way you step into the shot. Just knowing where everything belongs isn't enough. You have to be able to feel yourself getting into proper position, since you can't see yourself during your approach, and you don't want to look down at your feet because then you'll lose sight of the shot line --- and the shot itself.

Give it some time, and if you have trouble finding an approach that works for you, let me know and I can offer some suggestions.
 
Last edited:

Tennesseejoe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Herbie, this is something that has helped me and may be worth a simple fix. When you get down on your shot, it looks like when you are 'set', your cue tip is almost touching the cue ball. Get down exactly like you normally do but move everything about 5 inches forward, including your feet. Your cue tip will about 3 to 4 inches ahead of the cue ball. This may free up your stroke to help with a good center ball hit.
 
Top