Help: Predator "Lifetime" Warranty

M

MikeCor

Registered
(Sorry, this is a little long)

So has anyone ever tried to send something back to Predator for repair under warranty?

I sent my cue (1996 1st Edition 314-5) to them a couple of weeks ago, and they called me a couple of days later to tell me that the flaws in my cue would not be covered under their "lifetime" warranty.

My cue has never been abused (even the girl from Predator said it appeared to be in very good condition). The problem with it is that the finish on the rings is peeling pretty badly and the inlays feel as though they are coming out. If you run your fingers down the butt you can feel the outline of the inlays.

She says that because the cue is 8 years old, that it is considered normal wear and tear - that if it had only been 2 or 3 years old, then it would have been covered under their "lifetime" warranty. Let me ask this: If something would be covered after 3 years, should it not also be covered after 20 if there is a LIFETIME warranty? And the thing of it is less than 2 months ago at a tournament I saw someone with the EXACT same cue and it was perfect - no bumps on the inlays, no peeling on the rings. I asked the guy and he never had it refinished or anything. So NO, it is NOT NORMAL wear and tear (IMHO). I have a 13 year old Viking that is still immaculate. I have owned several cues that have been at least as old yet not seen those problems. I have another Predator that's 6 years old and I don't have that problem.

After repeatedly voicing my dissappointment she said she would check with someone else to see if there is anything she could do. She called me back and said they would refinish the butt and shaft, re-ferrule and install a Moori and ship it back to me for $100 (regular cost to refinish the butt is $140).

So, after all of that, here is my question: Should I be happy with that or should I try to force them to honor their lifetime warranty? How could I go about it? I am now very sour on Predator because of this experience and will definitely re-consider my next cue purchase because of this.

Any advice or opinion from the cuemakers out there?

I am posting this for 2 reasons. First to hopefully get for help and advice on how to proceed. And secondly to warn people about Predator's refusal to honour warranties for older cues. I don't want to extort them or anything like that, but I don't want to see anyone invest $1000-$2000 with the understanding that they will have a cue that is warranted for life when in fact it isn't. It would just be nice to see them live up to their claim of a lifetime warranty. I have 3 Predators and 6 Predator shafts - This may sound corny, but I feel betrayed. I've been a loyal Predator customer for 8 years, spreading the gospel of their fine product (and warranty) to anyone who would listen, but now that it's their turn to incur a little expense for a loyal customer (who has spent a few thousand $$$ on their products), they don't want to honour their commitment...

From what I have said, does it seem to you as though it is in fact a manufacturer's defect? Any thoughts on how I could go about persuading them to reconsider?
 
Send them a copy of this post. You have made some good and valid points, and if they won't work with you, don't give them any more business. It's a shame and this is only ONE reason I prefer to buy custom cues. Not that there aren't some bad ones out there, but you can get some feel of a person's ethics during the ordering process. I have not (personally) seen a custom cuemaker not stand behind his work. A friend once told me that a friend of his had a fairly old Cognoscenti (sp?) and the shaft suddenly warped pretty badly. Well he saw Joey Gould at some event and showed it to him. He immediately snapped it over his knee and said "I'll send you a new one.". Now that's my kind of customer service.
~David
 
I am not a cue maker but that is the number one reason that I will never buy another production cue again. I have never had a problem with a production cue, but I would never spend the kind of money that Predator is asking for its cues on a production cue. If I have a problem with my cue, I want a name to contact, and that better be the name on the cue, I don't want a help desk, I want the cue-smith himself. I wanted to get my Jacoby refinished, so I called Jacoby and spoke to Jacoby. Any self respecting cue maker will warrant his craft for a lifetime, meaning his/hers and that is the way it should be. Predator screwed you over like any big company would, you are nothing but a statistic on a chart on a wall that any company would consider an 'acceptable loss'. If I was you, I'd raise Cain. I would write to all of the billiard magazines out there, the Better Business Bureau, anything. If this was a $50 Mizerak cue, whooptie skip, but you have invested a small fortune in their product and they turned their back on you.
Just my 2 cents.
 
It is 8 years old as you said. And with out seeing it to judge it is hard to say who is right, but I believe the Lifetime Deal is Limited Lifetime. Which gives them some outs on fixxing every little problem.
But imo, I would think they could give you a little better price on the refinish, and meet in the middle maybe. Seems like they would rather have a happy customer rather than the way you feel now. I mean it isn't that much trouble for them to doit it for you with all the equipment they have and all the cues they spray.............
And like I said before........it is 8 years old.........
Is it really any worse than normal wear?
 
Yes it is MUCH worse than normal wear. I have cues that are older and have seen the exact same cue without those problems. Normal wear would be wear on the wrap, dulling of the finish, even cracking I would accept, but this is nothing like that. The finish over top of the rings is peeling and the inlays are coming out of the cue - you can feel the outline of the inlays - that is not normal.

And as for their warranty the this is what is on their site, word for word:

Warranty

All Predator Cues and Shafts are warranted for life against any manufacturer defect (does not include warpage or abuse).

And we both (the girl from Predator and myself) agreed that it was neither warped nor abused.
 
Then I would press it! And ask them again to fix it.....and ask for an in depth review of their Warrenty.......how ever ya spell that! lol
 
First, I've had a good experience with Predator warranty work. I USED to be VERY rough on my cues. I broke a Predator shaft by slamming it on the table hard enough that any one piece shaft would have also broken (I know, I've broken plenty of those too). It split along the glue line. I took it to the Hopkins show some 5 years ago and showed it to them. I fibbed and told them it broke while I was breaking. They measured the diameter to make sure I did not have it turned down beyond their specifications. Then they sent me a new shaft in the mail.

Second, it sounds like the problem you are having was caused by large temperature and humidity changes in the cue. This causes inlays, rings, and any other components to change in size, which can cause the finish to break and the inlays to be felt. I believe this is under the same classification as "warpage" which hardly any cuemaker, custom or production, warrants against.

I think they are being more than fair in offering you a refinish, a new $30 tip, and a new ferrule at a bargain price of $100.
 
iusedtoberich - I guess you'd have to see it. Just the fact that she said it would have been covered after 2 or 3 years, but not after 8 really irks me. What creature's lifetime do they go by? A goldfish?

I've got a few pics, but you can't really tell from the pics. To clarify, the finish is not really "broken", it really looks like flaking on the rings, and bumps where the inlays are coming out.

As for temperature changes - all my other cues would have gone through pretty much the same thing, yet I haven't seen the same effects on the others.

All that aside, I'm glad that they are at least going to do a little, but I just expected more and as a result will probably never buy a Predator product again.
 
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then maybe they shouldn't even mention lifetime warranty..they should just say up to 3 years warranty. Don't make sense if they say only cues that are up to 3 years old are covered by the "Lifetime Warranty"
 
predator quality

mike, I have 2 predators, I bought used. On Ebay, but thats another argument. I really like thier shafts, but the quality of thier butts [made by Falcon] is in serious question. I 've had both butts refinshed, at regular cost. One is a 98 LE6 and the other 1996-5, just like yours. Mine was in the exact same condition/ problems. On a scale of 1 to 10; thier refinish was at best an 8.If I could change things ,I would buy a Schon w/ a Pred. shaft. And 2years ago, Predator had to send them to FALCON to refinish them, [in Canada]they couldn't do them in Florida. I wish you good luck. If you need further help, email me. Best of rolls!!! Kennyratt
 
So Kennyratt,

You had the same problems? And did you ask them to see if they would cover it under their lifetime warranty? So what if you bought them off Ebay, it's still their product and they make no mention of "original owner" or anything like that...

Whatever, I'll call them back and see if they want to do better than what they offered, but I can guarantee you that it is the last Predator cue that I buy.
 
Every predator I've seen that has metal rings, has the finish crack over the rings. Even the display models at one show I was at, had that problem. Over time, it just gets worse. I think that's why they're claiming that if it was that bad at 3 years, its a defect. But at 8 years, it is expected.

HOWEVER: A lifetime warranty is a lifetime warranty. If they'd fix it at 3, they should fix it at 30. If they don't like honoring their warranty, then they shouldn't have said LIFETIME.

And, I'd say that if the inlays are popping...that's really shitty. Metal rings are expected to pop...but inlays?

I'd never get metal rings again, even though I like the way they look. The problem is that you just guarantee that you'll have to refinish the cue. Anyone have an old cue with metal rings that didn't pop? I'm curious. Where do you live? I live in Canada, and I think it is the temp/humidity changes that do cues in here.

I've got a 10 year old Joss, with only wood inlays. Not one finish problem anywhere (except where I dinged it accidentally).

That said...$100 sounds like a good price to refinish a cue and add a new tip and ferrule.
 
jer9ball said:
Every predator I've seen that has metal rings, has the finish crack over the rings. Even the display models at one show I was at, had that problem. Over time, it just gets worse. I think that's why they're claiming that if it was that bad at 3 years, its a defect. But at 8 years, it is expected.

HOWEVER: A lifetime warranty is a lifetime warranty. If they'd fix it at 3, they should fix it at 30. If they don't like honoring their warranty, then they shouldn't have said LIFETIME.

And, I'd say that if the inlays are popping...that's really shitty. Metal rings are expected to pop...but inlays?

I'd never get metal rings again, even though I like the way they look. The problem is that you just guarantee that you'll have to refinish the cue. Anyone have an old cue with metal rings that didn't pop? I'm curious. Where do you live? I live in Canada, and I think it is the temp/humidity changes that do cues in here.

I've got a 10 year old Joss, with only wood inlays. Not one finish problem anywhere (except where I dinged it accidentally).

That said...$100 sounds like a good price to refinish a cue and add a new tip and ferrule.
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Oh man I think Canada is the worst country to be owning a good cue....the weather is just crap. It's too cold in winter and too hot at Summer.....i think it's just too much climate abuse for the cue....my cues are 'popping' cause of this. At least in the Philippines the weather is pretty much consisten, it's always hot. But in Canada it's just too much abuse a cue can't handle.
 
Fix it Predator...

Lifetime, means as long as you own the cue. It's BS to talk about normal wear and tear....who's to judge? There are many things much more sensitive to temperature changes than a cue stick, that have survived 100's of years such as musical instrument and furnature. Heck, I've had a cheap cue that was 35 years old that was in my parents attic in NY that I such sold in good shape. That attic would go from 110 degrees in the summer to -20 below in the winter. Bottom line is for Predator to stand behind their product.
 
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