Help with ferrule material

[Jimmy_Betmore]

Do you know what the difference in feel is between abs and pvc? I have a cue that I think has an abs ferrule, it is soft but it also plays kind of dead, not a lot of "feel" on a shot

I'd say that, typically, they're similar enough to basically be interchangeable. The wild card, though, is that ABS and PVC can vary in density, hardness, etc. I pulled the table below from a plastics supplier's website. And don't pay any attention to the highlighted part. It's like that on the site for some reason.

 

[CeaseLess]

Paper micarta??

No, it's not, but I've always wanted to try one.

 

[Paul_#_]

I wonder if they have a new cotton fiber material that doesn't swell anymore.

I suspect they were not just cotton but more likely wood pulp and cotton (how could cotton alone do the job?). From the post Cue Alchemist noted above:

Those ferrules were called fiber and was made of a blended material of wood pulp and cotton fibers. It made a very sturdy material which could stand up to a lot of abuse but did stain and had a tendency to move.

 

[Ģüśţāṿ]

I’d look into using a ferrule made of LBM (Linen Based Melamine) for a softer hit like you prefer.

LBM is known for its harder hit, not softer. Ageis II is marginally harder than phenolic.

To the OP, I believe the closest new product would be juma, which is very strong but won't shrink or swell. Otherwise, schmelke sells tweeten fiber ferrules in black. I've only come across them in white from European websites, but this should be near identical to your dufferin ferrule.

 

[Paul_#_]

Cue Components has linen ($12) and paper (wood $46). Cotton is a fiber and the cotton fiber ferrule is likely a cotton & wood ferrule. Could that be the Tweeten fiber ferrule at Schmelke's or maybe the paper $46 ferrule at Cue Components?

 

[muskyed]

You might want to ask one of the mods to move this to the cuemakers forum, there you may find out exactly what you are asking for.

 

[Bavafongoul]

LBM is known for its harder hit, not softer. Ageis II is marginally harder than phenolic.

To the OP, I believe the closest new product would be juma, which is very strong but won't shrink or swell. Otherwise, schmelke sells tweeten fiber ferrules in black. I've only come across them in white from European websites, but this should be near identical to your dufferin ferrule.

I have had a different experience than you when I tried playing with LBM ferrules. I am not the best source since ivory ferrules are my preference and is on most of my cues. Only two of my cues don’t have ivory…..my Palmer and my ‘85 Schon which has Micarta. I’ll defer to others that know more about this than myself.not implying that you might be since I don’t know you.

 

[j2pac]

You might want to ask one of the mods to move this to the cuemakers forum, there you may find out exactly what you are asking for.

Good idea.

 

[Ģüśţāṿ]

I have had a different experience than you when I tried playing with LBM ferrules. I am not the best source since ivory ferrules are my preference and is on most of my cues. Only two of my cues don’t have ivory…..my Palmer and my ‘85 Schon which has Micarta. I’ll defer to others that know more about this than myself.not implying that you might be since I don’t know you.

Here's some testing that was done many years ago, I believe ivory came in around 87 (not in that list). Construction method certainly plays a role in feel, so it's very likely that to you it felt softer, but in general the material is on the harder side.

Thread 'Ferrule Hardness: The results are in! (and interesting!)'

Nov 9, 2011

The results are finally in! A big thanks to all of you who helped make this possible. Particularly to Olaf in Germany for doing the actual testing. He goes by Cuetips1000 on youtube and was kind enough to not only do the actual testing, but to also do a video. He did multiple tests on each material but informed me that he edited out the duplicates as the results were all consistent. Some very interesting results! Perhaps they jive with what you all have experienced...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-xvN6W6xhQ

Aegis II: 93
Black Canvas Phenolic: 92
Black Linen Phenolic: 93...

• hdgis1
• Replies: 56
• Forum: Ask The Cuemaker

• 
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[Bavafongoul]

I think asking the Mods yo move this thread to a different forum serves no purpose. Let it remain right here where more readers patrol threads than in the cue makers forum. Just start a new thread in that forum and leave this one as is. You can have posts in as many forums as you want and having yours in more than one forum is allowable. GL getting helpful info.

 

[epoxypop]

I’d look into using a ferrule made of LBM (Linen Based Melamine) for a softer hit like you prefer.

Linen base melamine is hard

 

[Bavafongoul]

I am pretty sure there’s divided opinion about this and no one so far has come forth as an authority on this point.
This will likely be a debate that sees no end until someone with expert knowledge hopefully offers objective facts.

So far it hadn’t happened and it might never. Cue makers with a extensive, proven track record are the best source.
Until that happens, or Dr. Dave tackles this point, everyone is right because it is just your opinion which is valueless.

 

[Paul_#_]

Here's some testing that was done many years ago, I believe ivory came in around 87 (not in that list).

The list Ģüśţāṿ referred to sorted by hardness with ivory inserted as 87 even though it was not in the list (click here to see list and info on ivory at post #56 and cite there)

XTC	83​
Micarta (Westinghouse)	84​
Titan	84​
Meucci Original	85​
MPI	86​
PVC	86​
Ivory (see note)	87​
Elforyn	87​
Fiber	87​
Porper	87​
Juma	89​
Rolled Brown Linen Phenolic	89​
Grice	91​
Micarta (Mason)	91​
Black Canvas Phenolic	92​
Aegis II	93​
Black Linen Phenolic	93​
G10	93​
Ivorine III	93​
Ivorite-III	93​
Micarta (GE)	94​
Saber T	94​
LBM	95​
Ivor-X	96​
Ivorine IV	96​

[td]

​

[/td]​

 

[Ģüśţāṿ]

I am pretty sure there’s divided opinion about this and no one so far has come forth as an authority on this point.
This will likely be a debate that sees no end until someone with expert knowledge hopefully offers objective facts.

So far it hadn’t happened and it might never. Cue makers with a extensive, proven track record are the best source.
Until that happens, or Dr. Dave tackles this point, everyone is right because it is just your opinion which is valueless.

If cuemakers with with a proven track record are the best source, then why did you completely disregard them about your 4oz KW shaft?

[Can of worms has been opened]

The hardness list that I posted was generated by cuemakers and a person with a hardness tester.

 

[spktur]

I suspect they were not just cotton but more likely wood pulp and cotton (how could cotton alone do the job?). From the post Cue Alchemist noted above:

White fiber is what McDermott used for many years.

 

[Michael Webb]

That's a reasonable take, but I'm not looking for suitable, I want that same hit. It was perfect to me. I've tried most of those options, the only one that was close was xtc.

Contact Roy Mason
He's in Canada and a Cue maker.
He knows more about Dufferin than most.
masonr@golden.net

 

[Bavafongoul]

If cuemakers with with a proven track record are the best source, then why did you completely disregard them about your 4oz KW shaft?

[Can of worms has been opened]

The hardness list that I posted was generated by cuemakers and a person with a hardness tester.

You presume to know why I did what I did that so many others on this forum stated couldn’t be done.
I reached out to a lot of cue makers that said they couldn’t build what I wanted. All it took was finding
like minded cue makers that were capable of building what others said couldn’t be done. So it took me
longer to get a KW shaft instead of just buying one that would have been too light for my cue butts.

I’m really very happy with my Kielwood shafts and others I referred have done the same as I did. No one
has expressed displeasure over getting a heavier version un-cored heavier KW shaft built, certainly not me.

I never disregarded the opinion of cue makers I hold in high regard. Every one of them, along with the better
names in cue making, build their cues as I’ve been preaching about for almost two decades. They happen to
have a long wait list and this is just a shaft when they’re busy with building custom cues. My Kielwood shafts
are the same weight & diameter as my cue’s orig. maple shafts so I followed the opinion of my cue makers.

As far as KW shafts, I also followed the opinions of cue makers. I found several that not only talk the walk but
walk the talk. They can make Kielwood shafts heavier than what other cue makers and many forum members
said wasn’t buildable. So I although I did not follow the advice of the cue makers I used to build my Kielwood
shaft, they agreed with why I wanted a heavier KW shaft built in contrast with others that tried mocking me.

All I know is what I know….there are 4 gorgeous Kielwood shafts in my case that play better than my original
maple shafts including my Tim Scruggs and Prewitt cues. To me, that says a mouthful because those are two
really top names in cue making. If I listened the opinion of others, I’d have saved some money playing with the
original maple shafts. Buying shafts is not like the cost of buying cues so the KW shaft cost seems insignificant.