Help with Layered Tip

Bustah360

Bustah360

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I play with a Kamui tip, and noticed that the center of the tip has a funny spot on it. It looks like a bald spot with out of place leather right in the center. I've attached photos for all to see, sorry they're a bit fuzzy I only had my cell phone camera to take the shots. Is this common with layered tips? I doubt it significant enough to affect the hit, but again, I'm not really sure. I've been told by a pro that she hates layered tips for that particular reason and prefers using a one solid piece of leather for tips. Someone else in the poolhall suggested I use a "milk dud" instead. Any suggestions? Thanks!
 
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Use a shaper to shape it down a little (making the tip shorter). The "bald" spot you see is the glue between the layers of leather. The high point of your tip is right at one of these glue interfaces. It shouldn't affect the play much, but that pot won't hold chalk quite as well as the leather.

-Andrew
 
Ok so that's the glue holding the previous layer down? Surprised that stayed behind, because those pics are taken directly after me scuffing the tip. I guess using the shaping side of my tool is more coarse to do the job right?

Andrew Manning said:
Use a shaper to shape it down a little (making the tip shorter). The "bald" spot you see is the glue between the layers of leather. The high point of your tip is right at one of these glue interfaces. It shouldn't affect the play much, but that pot won't hold chalk quite as well as the leather.

-Andrew
Click to expand...
 
don't worry too much about it... I heard an old tip from a great player... keep a small flat spot on the tip.... When you use english, you only use the side of the tip anyhow. But when you hit centerball, it's easier....
 
I've tried different brands of layered tips over the years. Half of the ones I tried ended up delaminating at the top of the dome when shaping it with a shaper cube, where the top layer is thinnest. In other words, I ended up with a thin round slice of leather at the bottom of the shaper, and a hole in the middle of the tip. Trying to shape it down further to recover a round shape, another layer would come off. I found the only reliable way to shape layered tips is to use a dime-shaped concave file and file laterally while turning the shaft slowly.

Eventually I gave up on layered tips and I now happily play with cheap plain elkmasters.
 
tip shape

Looks to me like tip had a high spot (ball) in center and then a couple layers low which are not getting chalk.Consequently,your also not getting full tip contact with C.B. Tip just needs shaped properly. Tip contour is not uniform.

Find your local repair man,have them chuck it up,lightly wet tip,burnish edges again.Make sure not to get too hot and cause layers to de-laminate.

For layered tips once I have got tip close using fresh razor blade to desired contour,I have some 1 inch wide rolled 150 grit,tear off about 1 inch length and hold paper to desired contour,this works very well for uniformly grooming the tip to proper contour.

Drop grit down to 240 to finish.This seems to be the "just right" grade,which will allow for good chalk adherance and not fluff or tear the leather.

Once you get tip properly shaped you will be pleased with the Kamui. It is what I play with,it will out-perform milk duds,and any single layered tip
for consistency and ball spin thats out there and in my experience it is the
best layered tip out there.
 
You know its funny you say that. I just finished using the shaping tool (nickel). It did exactly that, going down a layer, resulting in yet another spot sticking up on the center of the tip too. Trying to peel made it worse, so I just lightly scuffed it down. I have to say that it bothers the hell outta me when I look at it, LOL. I guess as long as it doesn't affect my shot making, right? One concern is the way it hold chalk. I specifically picked Kamui for its ability to hold onto chalk better, this kind of negates that point. Any comments?

Fastolfe said:
I've tried different brands of layered tips over the years. Half of the ones I tried ended up delaminating at the top of the dome when shaping it with a shaper cube, where the top layer is thinnest. In other words, I ended up with a thin round slice of leather at the bottom of the shaper, and a hole in the middle of the tip. Trying to shape it down further to recover a round shape, another layer would come off. I found the only reliable way to shape layered tips is to use a dime-shaped concave file and file laterally while turning the shaft slowly.

Eventually I gave up on layered tips and I now happily play with cheap plain elkmasters.
Click to expand...
 
tip shaping

I would also add. Using most scuffers out there will add to improper contour,thats likely why your tip is not shaped correctly. Shape it right
and leave it alone. Chalk up,each shot.

If your tip is shaped right,and you are mis-cueing it's probably not the tip,you need to work on improving your stroke,and a smoother delivery of tip to C.B.

Scuffing your tip when this happens is of the same mentality of putting a new tires on your car because you skidded around the corner at 60 in the rain.
 
The thing about your idea is that I might have to get a repair man every time that spot sticks up on the tip. I'll def try the different levels of grit to try and sand it down, that plan seems much more logical. I can hit up the hardware store and just find yet another thing to stick inside my case pockets, lol. I could be like Ralf Souquet and store toilet wipes in there along with tip tool and grit.


Crushem9 said:
Looks to me like tip had a high spot (ball) in center and then a couple layers low which are not getting chalk.Consequently,your also not getting full tip contact with C.B. Tip just needs shaped properly. Tip contour is not uniform.

Find your local repair man,have them chuck it up,lightly wet tip,burnish edges again.Make sure not to get too hot and cause layers to de-laminate.

For layered tips once I have got tip close using fresh razor blade to desired contour,I have some 1 inch wide rolled 150 grit,tear off about 1 inch length and hold paper to desired contour,this works very well for uniformly grooming the tip to proper contour.

Drop grit down to 240 to finish.This seems to be the "just right" grade,which will allow for good chalk adherance and not fluff or tear the leather.

Once you get tip properly shaped you will be pleased with the Kamui. It is what I play with,it will out-perform milk duds,and any single layered tip
for consistency and ball spin thats out there and in my experience it is the
best layered tip out there.
Click to expand...
 
Thing is, before layered tips, there were excellent players, and I suspect they didn't sweat their shots anymore than we do today. So I smell marketing BS behind those fancy, $10-a-pop tips. The only expensive tip I ever bought that lives up to its price is a diamond white tip, and that's for jumping balls.

I personally choose elkmasters because once they have broken in and compressed to their final shape, which takes around 2 weeks, they stay in shape forever, don't need much attention and hold chalk okay. I usually chalk before every shot, and if I miscue, it's probably my fault :) I'd say my plain jane tips need a bit of scuffing once a year, and I play between 1 and 4 hours every day all year round.
 
If you...

If you get the tip shaped right, that spot wont keep "popping up" unless you are grinding away on your tip with a scuffer. If you insist on grinding your tip up all the time (which guys who do repair work love that ) it may be best to switch back to single layer tip.Save yourself some money.

You should get about a 6-8 months of heavy usage out of your Kamui before
the layers will compact to the point you probably wont like the harder hit,and C.B becomes less responsive to spin.

My experience with Moori's and most other layered tips was to experience this around 1 month of heavy play.
 
I agree whole-heartedly

I used LePros for over 20 years before they came out with Layered tips.As a serious level player,instructor,cue-builder and someone who is open-minded I gave layered tips a sincere look.

All the while keeping in mind,if Im going to pay that much more for a tip, I want to see a measurable difference in performance. Having the luxury of
being able to install tips myself, 3 or 4 years ago..I installed every layered tip out there on the same cue,and gave each of them a sincere look.

After this time...I went back to my old stand-by,hand selected,pressed Lepros,as none of the others I could stand after a month or two.

Later,when Kamui came out I also gave them a sincere look,on the same cue.The first tip I put on played well for just under a year of heavy play. "S" is my liking,and closest to the same feel as a LePro... the "M" was a bit hard for my liking and was closer to the hit of a Triangle.and got harder to the point it was like a W.B. The "H" I never tried,as I knew I would never use it on any of my cues,as a player or installed for sale.

Keep in mind in years past,cloth was much "nappier" and use of english was easier to achieve on those slower cloths(Hence heavier cues being more popular)But they played slower.There are a lot of variables that contribute to use of spin now..Humidity in your area,bar tables with scotch guard which is a nightmare for ball-speed consistency...760 Simonis on bar tables also a nightmare...Many places are using cloth designed for lighter C.B.'S on bar table with the heavier C.B.'s which greatly limits the consistent use of spin and playability you are accustomed to on Diamond or a Brunswick.
 
Looks to me like you just have to sand that out. With layered tips you need to sand from the top down not from the edge up.
 
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