Help with stroke😮‍💨

[HelpMeScrubs0013]

I'm lost here. I've put numerous hours on the table on my stroke. From the side I'm at 90°. So when I go forward with my wrist it natural keeps going toward my chest an my wrist wants to slighty turn to the right. So when I draw straight back I keep putting bottom right on CB. I've tried everything with my stance. Idk if I need to square up more like sky woodward or what.
Video shows it.

 

[BilliardsAbout]

How hard is your grip on a scale of 1 to 10?

Are you closing your hand to finish your forward stroke. There's a lot of "oomph" near the end of your stroke, you don't look like you have a gentle, relaxed finish with the cue stick. My $0.02.

 

[HelpMeScrubs0013]

How hard is your grip on a scale of 1 to 10?

Are you closing your hand to finish your forward stroke. There's a lot of "oomph" near the end of your stroke, you don't look like you have a gentle, relaxed finish with the cue stick. My $0.02.

Ain't gonna lie like a 6 but on the finish its like a 8. I feel like I'm crowding the shot line cause my hand always hits my chest an sometimes it seems right when cueball is hit. But when I get down on the shot I can see it now but it feels right but my arm leans back an my wrist wants to go across my body. When I'm not on the table an practice my stroke I can do it especially in the mirror perfect but when I get down on CB it's all out of wack. I've moved my right foot hundreds of times it seems like. I know I need to get my arm away from my body more for clearance.

 

[skiergd011013]

i noticed your elbow wobbling some, and i also noticed that your cue does not contact your body when stroking. Many players, especially snooker, touch the cue against their body while stroking. If you can get your cue to gently touch against your body, it acts as a guide and helps keep your cue straight. But Dont make the error of cocking your arm inward sideways to get it to rub. The proper way is to adjust your stance to get it to do it. Barry stark explains here, and also explains how difficult it is to cue straight with a free swinging cue with no body rub. Also, Can you stroke deep into a small beer bottle opening without touching anything? This is hard to do if you have errors in your stroke. Dont know if it will help, but you could try. this

 

[HelpMeScrubs0013]

i noticed your elbow wobbling some, and i also noticed that your cue does not contact your body when stroking. Many players, especially snooker, touch the cue against their body while stroking. If you can get your cue to gently touch against your body, it acts as a guide and helps keep your cue straight. But Dont make the error of cocking your arm inward sideways to get it to rub. The proper way is to adjust your stance to get it to do it. Barry stark explains here, and also explains how difficult it is to cue straight with a free swinging cue with no body rub. Also, Can you stroke deep into a small beer bottle opening without touching anything? This is hard to do if you have errors in your stroke. Dont know if it will help, but you could try. this

Yes I've tried the water bottle method. I stroke it in an out without touching it. But then go to a CB different story. I'm not powering up much on the draw I don't feel. Even when I shoot soft easy shots I still feel so off. I've watch tons of videos on pros also. Maybe I need to lean my body down more an get cue closer to chin.

 

[skiergd011013]

Yes I've tried the water bottle method. I stroke it in an out without touching it. But then go to a CB different story. I'm not powering up much on the draw I don't feel. Even when I shoot soft easy shots I still feel so off. I've watch tons of videos on pros also. Maybe I need to lean my body down more an get cue closer to chin.

you dont look bad when down on the ball, so dont be discouraged. I regularly set up an ironing board, mirror, and practice my stance and stroke so i can look at myself and see what i am doing.

 

[HelpMeScrubs0013]

Well that was the main problem put my chest closer to the cue an definitely straightened it up. Never really thought about cue on chest. Thank yall!!

 

[tableroll]

How hard is your grip on a scale of 1 to 10?

Are you closing your hand to finish your forward stroke. There's a lot of "oomph" near the end of your stroke, you don't look like you have a gentle, relaxed finish with the cue stick. My $0.02.

Are you supposed to close your hand at the finish of the fore stroke?

 

[Bob Jewett]

Are you supposed to close your hand at the finish of the fore stroke?

In my view the shape of the hand -- at least the thumb and finger(s) that form the actual grip -- should not change during the shot. Some players have daylight through the grip that disappears by the end of the shot (or they tend to spear spectators at their cue flies forward). I think that change is bad.

In my view the hand should not close since it should be "closed" throughout the stroke.

(Many players open the little finger and maybe the ring finger on the backstroke. I think that's irrelevant.)

 

[BilliardsAbout]

Ain't gonna lie like a 6 but on the finish its like a 8. I feel like I'm crowding the shot line cause my hand always hits my chest an sometimes it seems right when cueball is hit. But when I get down on the shot I can see it now but it feels right but my arm leans back an my wrist wants to go across my body. When I'm not on the table an practice my stroke I can do it especially in the mirror perfect but when I get down on CB it's all out of wack. I've moved my right foot hundreds of times it seems like. I know I need to get my arm away from my body more for clearance.

1) Grip half as hard, and perhaps half as hard again! (1/4 of current grip pressure).

2) Hard to see from your video, but rather than squatting down by lowering your knees, think of leaving your knees straight and bending over/leaning over the trunk to play, so that your left knee bends a bit, your right knee less so (a thought to try to align your arm and cue a bit differently). It looks like you may "lose it" in the stance when you sit down to the shot rather than lean into/toward the shot. Give it a try and see and report back, please.

Thanks.

 

[WobblyStroke]

Are you supposed to close your hand at the finish of the fore stroke?

There are several schools of though here and u might get different responses from different teachers who are teaching different strokes where the role of the hand/wrist differ.

Bob above laid out the most common stance on the subject and the one I also subscribe to. I like to view the fingers as portable ligaments. they attach u to the cue as ligaments attach bone to bone. a stable connection point in at least part of the hand is vital for consistent delivery imo.

That said, there can be the appearance of the hand opening somewhat and then closing up, ending up wrapped around the cue snuggly at the completion of the stroke. Even the snooker style opening and closing of the hand have a loading into the fingers that remain consistent through the fore stroke as the hand closes up around the cue. Barry Stark explains this well in his vids tho that style probably isn't for u.

U may want to check out a thread in this forum from a cpl months ago on a gap in the grip. The reason it was posted to begin with was because mark wilson in his book suggests to use a grip with a gap between the hand and cue. That style works fine and there is no need for the cue to fly out and impail someone as Bob humorously suggested. I know good players that grip this way. it is fine....tho i prefer and promote no gap myself. It can def work and Ive used it as well just to try to understand it better. my cue didnt fly away and the gap was still there. esp for softer shots, u often see a gap in pros that cradle the cue. Earl and Efren, who I watch the most, both often have a gap in their grip on lighter shots, but ive never seen either attempt a power stroke shot with one....not because it isn't possible as I experienced myself when trying it out, but bc that gap will generally have to go away on such a shot and this opens the door to inconsistent cue delivery as Bob pointed out.

 

[evergruven]

Earl and Efren, who I watch the most, both often have a gap in their grip on lighter shots, but ive never seen either attempt a power stroke shot with one....not because it isn't possible as I experienced myself when trying it out, but bc that gap will generally have to go away on such a shot and this opens the door to inconsistent cue delivery as Bob pointed out.

never thought very much about varying grip gap, not in such a purposeful way..but I like it! thanks

 

[WobblyStroke]

never thought very much about varying grip gap, not in such a purposeful way..but I like it! thanks

Ideally you don't vary it lol. We ain't Earl and Efren. But many players prefer a lighter, more delicate grip on finesse shots. That lower tension tends to allow for a gap to appear in some. My point was more so that they don't allow for this gap on powerful stroke shots, not that it sometimes shows up at lower speeds.

 

[Bob Jewett]

never thought very much about varying grip gap, not in such a purposeful way..but I like it! thanks

I think it's really bad idea if you want to hit the ball consistently. I think there should be no daylight around your grip on any shot. Lots of good players do goofy things -- too many goofy things to try all of them.

 

[evergruven]

I think it's really bad idea if you want to hit the ball consistently. I think there should be no daylight around your grip on any shot. Lots of good players do goofy things -- too many goofy things to try all of them.

I hear you. I'm not trying to emulate goofiness, not arbitrarily anyway- I do think it is useful to experiment, and I do
but since a loose grip is one that's appealed to me over time, for various reasons, what wobbly said clicked with me
if anything, I find myself gravitating towards a tighter, more enveloping grip- that's just what's happening now
but anyway, I didn't mean to suggest that I, or anyone, should intentionally vary their grip tightness for each shot
I think consistency in technique is important. and while I do try different things, eliminating variables makes sense
but I'd not heard of a player tightening up on a power shot, to (even if only subconsciously) anticipate clenching
to me, that's a cool idea. so I posted. and I post...

 

[WobblyStroke]

I'd not heard of a player tightening up on a power shot, to (even if only subconsciously) anticipate clenching
to me, that's a cool idea. so I posted. and I post...

I don't think either of them really tightens up or anticipates clenching, but they do get rid of the gap. imo, it's got more to do with how the hand loads and delivers the cue with a longer stroke as both those guys play longer strokes. With the added length of stroke for a powerful delivery, their hand would come in contact all around the cue in their backswing anyway so they just get rid of that and start it there.

You can feel this difference out for yourself by taking a long back swing wrapped around the cue or with a gap. You will notice that when closed around the cue a little pressure builds in the hand and it wants to almost spring back to close and propel the cue forward...Barry stark talks about this and how it helps with timing of the stroke in his excellent (and long) vid series on grip if you want to check him out on YT. A gap doesn't allow for this beneficial pressure build up... but it is still very well suited to different deliveries like for 'snap' strokes so players using this grip certainly manage just fine, just in a different manner.

 

[evergruven]

I don't think either of them really tightens up or anticipates clenching, but they do get rid of the gap. imo, it's got more to do with how the hand loads and delivers the cue with a longer stroke as both those guys play longer strokes. With the added length of stroke for a powerful delivery, their hand would come in contact all around the cue in their backswing anyway so they just get rid of that and start it there.

You can feel this difference out for yourself by taking a long back swing wrapped around the cue or with a gap. You will notice that when closed around the cue a little pressure builds in the hand and it wants to almost spring back to close and propel the cue forward...Barry stark talks about this and how it helps with timing of the stroke in his excellent (and long) vid series on grip if you want to check him out on YT. A gap doesn't allow for this beneficial pressure build up... but it is still very well suited to different deliveries like for 'snap' strokes so players using this grip certainly manage just fine, just in a different manner.

thanks for the reply, will consider

 

[Tennesseejoe]

Your shot selection was very good to show some variances. A lot of good responses here, most of which I have tried. I hope some have helped. But if not, here's one that helped me.
Your elbow side to side movement could be causing the problem. Others have mentioned it but I haven't seen a recommendation relating to it. Try this...when stroking, do your normal line up for the shot. Concentrate on a point of your elbow going straight back and forth in the shot line. Then continue with your shot and feel the elbow going straight towards the object ball. If there is elbow side movement, there will probably be side movement at the cue tip.
What I found is the cue ball would stop dead without any spin and the shots went in clean. That gave me a center ball hit on the cue ball.

EDIT: I am not suggesting your elbow move up, down, or sideways. Just concentrate on the elbow staying on the shot line.

 

[FranCrimi]

I'm lost here. I've put numerous hours on the table on my stroke. From the side I'm at 90°. So when I go forward with my wrist it natural keeps going toward my chest an my wrist wants to slighty turn to the right. So when I draw straight back I keep putting bottom right on CB. I've tried everything with my stance. Idk if I need to square up more like sky woodward or what.
Video shows it.

I think your timing is off which can cause a wobble. Slow down your back stroke and increase your follow through a bit. Following through does happen after contact but if you plan on following through a bit more before you shoot, it helps with your stroke timing.