Here's a scenario ; Unsportsmanlike or not?

Skratch

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why does no discussion justify the breaker? If there is no discussion then one would assume that standard rules apply, and the breaker should have removed the template. Obviously he was trying to shark his opponent by leaving it on the table.

Leaving it on the table does not shark the opponent. Lets look at this another way. If i were to try to shark both players at the same time, who do you think the effect of the sharking would cause more harm to, the current shooter, or the opponent sitting waiting his turn? Obviously the shooter would be more affected by any interference, correct? In this case, if the opponent wanted the template removed, he can do it when he's at the table. What he did was,get up during the shooters turn, and moved an object in play. Simply getting up off his chair can be considered sharking. Coming to the table might be considered that too, and finally to touch something on the table should be a foul, even if it is the rack template. The shooter has the primary consideration, not the opponent. Imagine if every time you went to shoot, your opponent got up and touched something on the table? Wouldnt you call that sharking. Now imaging he moved something in play. Wouldn't you call that an foul? I know I would. Now again, no referee, but what he should have done was stop play and ask the that the template be moved. If the shooter didnt mind it, its his turn at the table and if the template affects his game, obviously he's willing to accept that. It would only be by chance that the template would be advantageous to his game. More often than not, it will adversely affect his play. You dont want bad rolls from the template. I would move it from play immediately too. BUT again, I think its the shooters choice as hes the player at the table. ....My opinion with my thoughts that the shooter has primary consideration.

Add: Money game! If they didnt discuss what rules they played by, you cant just assume WPA standard. Bad assumption, in my book. My issue is not with the right the opponent has to have the template removed. My issue is that he has NO right to move an object in play. He should address that with the shooter before his next shot and give him time to continue shooting his turn. Not just get up in the middle of the shooters turn, with no discussion and move it himself! That's sharking, if not rude! Try that doing that for every game in any tournament. See what the referee will do.
 
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erhino41

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No...he's a moron.

I played in a major Northeast event and used a piece of Predator chalk. I left it on the rail after I left the table. Everytime my opponent would pick it up and bring it to me before shooting. Even when it was nowhere near him. I let it go on most of the set...baffled me. Near the end I said "Does my chalk really bother you that much? He was horrible anyway and lost. Most bizarre thing I've seen.

If you brought it with you to the table you take it with you when you leave the table. I will hand it back to you every time. If it's not communal, then it shouldn't stay on the rail. I will be very polite about it. If you keep leaving it there all set, I will take it and use the s**t out of it until you get the point. Not trying to be inflammatory, just saying. I know where I put my chalk when I'm shooting, nothing bothers me more than getting in line and having to move my opponents chalk and realign to the shot. When I'm shooting, I'm flowing, or at least trying to. If you continue to leave your chalk after I ask you to take it with you, I am going to consider that a "move". Now if my opponent is playing with the cube that came in the ball tray, they have every right to leave it on the rail. I have no problem dealing with it then, I just consider it part of my psr to clear the shot line for chalk, but that also means clearing the other rail that is in my sight line, that is where your chalk becomes a double nuisance. I take mine with me back to my seat. If I do leave it, feel free to hand it back to me, I will not take offense in the least.

So this is on topic, OP should have removed the rack. Since that didn't happen the opponent should have politely asked the OP to remove it. If the OP didn't remove it then, this post would be about them being the d**k.
 
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rrick33

Rick
Silver Member
If no balls are in contact with the magic rack, it seems to me it's the same as if there was debris on the table and therefore should be removed before play continues.

If a piece of chalk was lying on the table behind a ball and you didn't see it, wouldn't you want someone to remove it?

Are you sure your frustration with your opponent wasn't focused more on controlling his actions in an effort to exert some level of dominance and the fact that he decided to remove it contrary to your wishes might be what you're really angry about?

Not saying that's a bad thing, these subtle aspects of play are often used to "shark" opponents and get under their skin to gain an edge.

Maybe I'm way off base but if I'm not, then kudos for being aware of the psychological aspects of the game. I say let it go...it didn't work that time.

The challenge is to not let a backfire get under your skin.
 
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KissedOut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Add: Money game! If they didnt discuss what rules they played by, you cant just assume WPA standard. Bad assumption, in my book. My issue is not with the right the opponent has to have the template removed. My issue is that he has NO right to move an object in play. He should address that with the shooter before his next shot and give him time to continue shooting his turn. Not just get up in the middle of the shooters turn, with no discussion and move it himself! That's sharking, if not rude! Try that doing that for every game in any tournament. See what the referee will do.

OK, so if it is a money game some "undiscussed" rules apply and others don't.

More evidence of how pool sucks and is irreformable.

One of pool's problems is that if there is more than one set of rules then there really are NO rules.
 

KissedOut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If no balls are in contact with the magic rack, it seems to me it's the same as if there was debris on the table and therefore should be removed before play continues.

If a piece of chalk was lying on the table behind a ball and you didn't see it, wouldn't you want someone to remove it?

Are you sure your frustration with your opponent wasn't focused more on controlling his actions in an effort to exert some level of dominance and the fact that he decided to remove it contrary to your wishes might be what you're really angry about?

Not saying that's a bad thing, these subtle aspects of play are often used to "shark" opponents and get under their skin to gain an edge.

Maybe I'm way off base but if I'm not, then kudos for being aware of the psychological aspects of the game. I say let it go...it didn't work that time.

The challenge is to not let a backfire get under your skin.

They each tried to shark the other, IMO. Otherwise there is no conceivable reason for leaving the template on the table.
 

rrick33

Rick
Silver Member
They each tried to shark the other, IMO. Otherwise there is no conceivable reason for leaving the template on the table.

You're probably right. So I guess it answers the OP's question.

Was it unsportsmanlike?

If it was, then they were both guilty.
 
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