Hoppe house cue conversion

[dirtypool40]

Howdy

still a newbie but looking for more real help and info than I got in my last thread.

I have a pre-1945 Hoppe / Titleist 1-piece house cue that's slightly warped in the shaft area. The butt is straight, veneers are clean and solid.

I'm going to have it "converted" to a playing cue, but I have a couple questions.

1.) Can I just joint it and leave the butt once piece / full splice or will that adversely effect the balance? I'm NOT talking about what it will look like, I know the points will be low if I do this. I'm talking about hit and balance.

2.) In general I'm a traditionalist and I am leaning towards 5/16-14 steel joint ala Balabushka & Szamboti. I have see the new thinner steel joints, and of course the all popular radial pins. Is there any real advantage to them or should I go with the vintage style through and through?

Thanks in advance.

ES

 

[KJ Cues]

ES,
I've read your post over and over and over again trying to get a sense of what you're REALLY asking and I'm still somewhat apprehensive about offering suggestions. But I will do you the courtesy of answering your questions as asked and then tell you of my apprehension.

1.) You can cut the cue anywhere along it's length "and leave the butt once piece / full splice" and not be concerned about the balance...yet. The points don't necessarily have to be low. The closer you make the cut of the cue to the tops of the points, the higher the points will be on the finished cue. It's certainly not uncommon to put an extension on the very butt-end of the cue to get your length back. This allows for the installation of a more visually appealing butt-sleeve such as an ebony Hoppe style or something that's inlaid. Choice is yours.
When the cue is cut, don't send the shaft to the garden as a tomato stake just yet. The dowel to make the butt extension can be made from this.

2.) This is also your choice. If you want a steel jnt., do a steel jnt. For the love of originality, don't have someone else tell you what YOU want. Piloted 14 w/stl. is a good choice for this cue if it's what YOU WANT. I personally don't like the use of a big pin with a stl jnt. but I'm not the one building this cue. This is a 'once in a lifetime' cue. Have it built the way YOU want.

Now for my apprehension. By asking your questions as you have, you're likely to have 35 different CMs give you 35 different versions of how they think this cue should be built. This will inevitably lead to problems btwn. you and the builder that you eventually decide to have build this cue for you. I'd suggest that you put together a short-list of potential builders and ask your questions of them. THEIR responses should narrow your search very quickly. Once you've settled on a builder, you and he can discuss the design/build options and you'll both be on the same page. The 'dream client' for any CM is the one who walks through the door knowing what he wants.

 

[dirtypool40]

KJ

thanks for the interest and response.

Reading over the post, I see where I was unclear.

Maybe this will help:

I have a titleist conversion, that used the old cue as a "blank" and we cut about a 13" section from it, and it has a normal handle, and a butt sleeve cut from the rest of the original.

What I am looking to do this time is to NOT cut the cue for a handle. I want to simply install a joint, notch for a wrap and a short hopped ring and buttcap.

I'm wondering what the "natural" balance of the cue will be like without a handle in the center.

As to the joints, I mean any "real" advantages of an older, thicker, heavier steel collar, and 5/16-14 pin vs. a newer thin steel collar and radial pin.

Traditionally I want the older style joint, but to make it work balanace and weight more naturally, I might fo with the other if I had to.

Thanks again...

 

[KJ Cues]

It's perfectly acceptable to leave the existing handle on the cue. Many conversions are done this way. However, these two cues will be different in that the first one was constructed by way of an 'A' jnt. and this will be absent in the new cue. The difference being that 'A' jnt. construction usually involves additional wght. in that area (the bottom of the points). This is desirable to some as it puts wght. in front of your hand. This way, you don't need to load-up the back-end so much.

What's been kicking around in my mind since we started this discussion is that some of those cues were on the beefy side at the butt. Is that something you would be content with or would you want it slimmed down? That would also affect your bal. pt. as will the stl. jnt. and it's accompanying pin. The difference in the two ss jnt. collars is wght. and they should deliver slightly different 'hits'. The thin walled 1/2 jnt., being lighter should give you the best of both worlds.

See, your future builder will have all of these options to offer you and will be able to explain why he's wanting to do something a particular way. I'm very willing to answer your questions as long as I don't present anything that would lead to any problems for your builder. This experience should be as controversy free as possible for all concerned.

If you're thinking traditional older style jnt., have you considered brass? All the best of luck with your project.

 

[icem3n]

Howdy

still a newbie but looking for more real help and info than I got in my last thread.

I have a pre-1945 Hoppe / Titleist 1-piece house cue that's slightly warped in the shaft area. The butt is straight, veneers are clean and solid.

I'm going to have it "converted" to a playing cue, but I have a couple questions.

1.) Can I just joint it and leave the butt once piece / full splice or will that adversely effect the balance? I'm NOT talking about what it will look like, I know the points will be low if I do this. I'm talking about hit and balance.

2.) In general I'm a traditionalist and I am leaning towards 5/16-14 steel joint ala Balabushka & Szamboti. I have see the new thinner steel joints, and of course the all popular radial pins. Is there any real advantage to them or should I go with the vintage style through and through?

Thanks in advance.

ES

Try Ivory joint like the one in Murray Tucker website.

 

[MasterClass]

Wat is the cue you are currently using and what cues have you used before and felt that you like it?

The feel is a personal thing hence the benefit of building a custom cue. you get to decided how it will turn out.

If you search for titlist tread you will probably find tons and tons of example. save some of the pics and use it to communicate with the builder so that he may know exactly what you are talking about.

The safest bet is to stick to a reputable cue maker if you are prepared to spend a little more.

 

[dirtypool40]

Thanks for the responses guys....

The cue is a little big in the butt end, I'm looking for roughly .840" at the joint and .1280" at the butt end. I'm not a fan of pencil thin 1.250 and thinner cues.

I like the older "PING!" hit of Szamboti's, Scruggs, Motteys, things like that. That's why I am leaning towards 5/16"-14 thread, and piloted, old skool style.

Harry Richards is a buddy in Dayonta, and I dropped the cue with him last night at a tournament. He built a nice "piloted" titleist for my Dad a few years ago. Mine will be off the house cue, where Dad's was off a 2-piece Hoppe.

I am going with a longer 14" front before the wrap, to get the points down to where I want them without an "A-joint".

I am intrigued by the newer (to me) radial pin everyone seems to be using and the thin wall steel joint, and the ease of weighting and balancing things seems to be the main advantage.

I'm looking for around 20 ounces and a balance 40.5" from the tip / 18.5" from the butt, on a 59" (29" Butt, 30" shaft) cue. Will I have a problem getting this with the old school style thick steel joint?

Also what's the reccomended ferrule / tip combo? It's been so long (16 years) since I had a new cue, I'm still playing with ivorine 3 and a le Pro.

I have access to ivory, elforyn and linen based ferrules. I'm sure I can get melanine and others. What's gonna give me the "PING!" I want?

Thanks in advance.

 

[pdcue]

Thanks for the responses guys....

The cue is a little big in the butt end, I'm looking for roughly .840" at the joint and .1280" at the butt end. I'm not a fan of pencil thin 1.250 and thinner cues.

I like the older "PING!" hit of Szamboti's, Scruggs, Motteys, things like that. That's why I am leaning towards 5/16"-14 thread, and piloted, old skool style.

Harry Richards is a buddy in Dayonta, and I dropped the cue with him last night at a tournament. He built a nice "piloted" titleist for my Dad a few years ago. Mine will be off the house cue, where Dad's was off a 2-piece Hoppe.

I am going with a longer 14" front before the wrap, to get the points down to where I want them without an "A-joint".

I am intrigued by the newer (to me) radial pin everyone seems to be using and the thin wall steel joint, and the ease of weighting and balancing things seems to be the main advantage.

I'm looking for around 20 ounces and a balance 40.5" from the tip / 18.5" from the butt, on a 59" (29" Butt, 30" shaft) cue. Will I have a problem getting this with the old school style thick steel joint?

Also what's the reccomended ferrule / tip combo? It's been so long (16 years) since I had a new cue, I'm still playing with ivorine 3 and a le Pro.

I have access to ivory, elforyn and linen based ferrules. I'm sure I can get melanine and others. What's gonna give me the "PING!" I want?

Thanks in advance.

With all due respect, you are asking a question no one
can answer for you. Sound, like "hit" is a very subjective and
personal preference that can not be predicted by another person.


As it turns out, just last night I sold one of my own personal
favorite playing cues to a friend. To him, the sound was most
important. I was somewhat reluctant to part with it, and had him
try out a few other cues I had made that, to me, seemed very similar
and even more to his preference in size and balance.

For about an hour, we hit balls with him asking, "Don't you hear that?
Can't you hear the difference?". In all honesty, I didn't hear what he did,
and doubt I ever will. BTW, the cue in question is much like your specs,
SS Joint, Hoppe ring and short black phenolic butt plate,
except I used a purpleheart Valley rather than a Titlist.

IMHO - as much as it sounds like you want to recreate the sound
a a Balabushka style cue, it would be self-defeating to try to do it
with either a Radial pin or a thin walled SS joint, which is basically
only a sleve intended to give the look of SS but the hit of
phenolic - using both makes it even more unlikely.

Again, your best chance of getting what you seek is piloted SS joint
and Ivory ferrules - the bad news, there is no sure way to tell untill the
cue is actually completed.

As a side note - there is absolutely nothing wrong with
Ivorine 3 and Le Pros - IF they give the feel and sound you like

Dale