Hot Cues?

Ebay is NOT a value guide. Why? Because some clowns use shill bidders to drive prices up or pull auctions before they run out. You won't see a cue go for value on ebay.
Sorry to disagree.
If you see a Searing, Hagan, Prewitt or Zylr on Ebay, it might just shock you how much people are willing to pay for them.
Ebay might not be the bible but it sure is a handy guide.
A maker here who claims he's all this and that, yet his ivory-laiden cue can't fetch $500 on Ebay, tells the consumer a lot. He's full of hot air.
I feel bad for the dealer who paid two grand for that cue.
 
JoeyInCali said:
Sorry to disagree.
If you see a Searing, Hagan, Prewitt or Zylr on Ebay, it might just shock you how much people are willing to pay for them.
Ebay might not be the bible but it sure is a handy guide.
A maker here who claims he's all this and that, yet his ivory-laiden cue can't fetch $500 on Ebay, tells the consumer a lot. He's full of hot air.
I feel bad for the dealer who paid two grand for that cue.

You can disagree, but if you have a buyer hell bent on getting the cue it just takes ONE friend of the owner to inflate the cost of the cue. I bet you on 1/2 of every auction, there is a shill.

Joe
 
prices

classiccues said:
Define heavy discount.. two problems with your arguement, A- Weston has been making his cues for 13-15 years, so he was already making it in the NJ area before we started selling his cues. B- He makes a great hitting cue and his work IS as good OR better than some people that are on the top lists in the poll thread. I know, I loop alot of cues. The only issue is he doesn't feel the need to crank out 4.5k or higher cues. He could put out incredible pieces, I have asked on multiple occasion, that would make some other cues look like they were whittled with a bowie.

Ebay is NOT a value guide. Why? Because some clowns use shill bidders to drive prices up or pull auctions before they run out. You won't see a cue go for value on ebay.

As far as two people driving up the prices.. no arguement there. But there are deeper issues than two people going cue crazy.

Joe

Sir,

I am not saying that these guys dont make great cues..but yes the people making the hype have interests most of the time..

I believe you work with Mr. Kulingin...(hope i spelled right).. No one can deny what he has done for the cue business.. His investments have helped many cuemakers and have driven up market values on many cues.. but now we our in a internet economy where the consumer has more research options and the economy now becomes more consumer driven..
To say ebay does not drive market value is totally false..Yes it hurts dealers but at the same time it helps consumers in a consumer driven economy.. If you see cues bringing $500 on ebay you are not likely to buy that makers cues for $1000.. It would make you think twice.. If you want one you will wait for another on ebay and hope to get it for $500... This is consumer driven and this does determine the value, no matter what some may think its worth..The consumer decides what its worth..

Ebay is a bad thing to all businesses.. Especially big business..but its reality and its how 95% of us determine what our cue is worth..
 
the_truth_ said:
Sir,

I am not saying that these guys dont make great cues..but yes the people making the hype have interests most of the time..

I believe you work with Mr. Kulingin...(hope i spelled right).. No one can deny what he has done for the cue business.. His investments have helped many cuemakers and have driven up market values on many cues.. but now we our in a internet economy where the consumer has more research options and the economy now becomes more consumer driven..
To say ebay does not drive market value is totally false..Yes it hurts dealers but at the same time it helps consumers in a consumer driven economy.. If you see cues bringing $500 on ebay you are not likely to buy that makers cues for $1000.. It would make you think twice.. If you want one you will wait for another on ebay and hope to get it for $500... This is consumer driven and this does determine the value, no matter what some may think its worth..The consumer decides what its worth..

Ebay is a bad thing to all businesses.. Especially big business..but its reality and its how 95% of us determine what our cue is worth..

Now here is the catch, if "I" use ebay in my advantage to negotiate a cue, I am a crook. But still half the cues don't sell on ebay, they sell off line. So you really don't get a sense of whats going on. If you do a listing of cue, highest priced first, there maybe only bids on 6 of the first 25 cues. If one was to solely look at that, they may think the cue market is DEAD. But in reality, the fact there are no bids come from a plethora of reasons. People with low feedback ratings don't get bids all the time, maybe the starting price is high, etc.. its just not reliable. Guide sure, but you need to weigh all the variables.

Now lets say I want to "inflate" say.. Skip Westons market. I could. He is now only making 4-5 cues a month. I could buy every one he is capable of making. Lets say after his current orders run through, I lock him up. So now his wait instead of 8-12 mos is indefinite. This is what I believe Lucky to be doing with certain cuemakers. I don't do it because I feel it is unfair. Believe me, I know what it is like to want to order a cue and be involved in the process from the get go. I don't want to be a dick, or a perceived cue tyrant. I have had certain cuemakers, I was on their lists, knock me off their lists because of Mark and the collapse of his friendships with them (nothing to do with me). Am I disappointed? Sure but you know what, I am more of a man than they are and I could be here badmouthing the crap out of them. But why bother? This is why I understand the need to be part of the process, and the disappointment when you cannot get a cue for whatever the reason.

Joe
 
the_truth_ said:
Sir,

I am not saying that these guys dont make great cues..but yes the people making the hype have interests most of the time..

I believe you work with Mr. Kulingin...(hope i spelled right).. No one can deny what he has done for the cue business.. His investments have helped many cuemakers and have driven up market values on many cues.. but now we our in a internet economy where the consumer has more research options and the economy now becomes more consumer driven..
To say ebay does not drive market value is totally false..Yes it hurts dealers but at the same time it helps consumers in a consumer driven economy.. If you see cues bringing $500 on ebay you are not likely to buy that makers cues for $1000.. It would make you think twice.. If you want one you will wait for another on ebay and hope to get it for $500... This is consumer driven and this does determine the value, no matter what some may think its worth..The consumer decides what its worth..

Ebay is a bad thing to all businesses.. Especially big business..but its reality and its how 95% of us determine what our cue is worth..

This is why most custom cuemakers shun ebay as an outlet for their cues. It devalues their product to the point that they can hardly make a living. At Christmas time several years ago I had 2 cues on order for customers who could not take delivery due to circumstances beyond their control. One was laid off from his job, the other (a person who almost NEVER drinks) got a DUI. I'd "earmarked" the money from these sales to pay for my kids' Christmas presents. After consulting with the people who'd ordered the cues, I put them on ebay. Neither cue was IMHO great looking, but they were just what the customer ordered. I got a little over half what the cues should have sold for. Then I had people wanting me to sell cues off my website, of similar design for the prices these cues sold for on ebay. I held my ground and the cues, but if I'd established that my cues were only worth those prices, I'd have been out of business by now! My prices are already way lower than most cuemakers, I feel.

just more hot air!

Sherm
 
cues

cuesmith said:
This is why most custom cuemakers shun ebay as an outlet for their cues. It devalues their product to the point that they can hardly make a living. At Christmas time several years ago I had 2 cues on order for customers who could not take delivery due to circumstances beyond their control. One was laid off from his job, the other (a person who almost NEVER drinks) got a DUI. I'd "earmarked" the money from these sales to pay for my kids' Christmas presents. After consulting with the people who'd ordered the cues, I put them on ebay. Neither cue was IMHO great looking, but they were just what the customer ordered. I got a little over half what the cues should have sold for. Then I had people wanting me to sell cues off my website, of similar design for the prices these cues sold for on ebay. I held my ground and the cues, but if I'd established that my cues were only worth those prices, I'd have been out of business by now! My prices are already way lower than most cuemakers, I feel.

just more hot air!

Sherm
Hi,I started this thread but we are getting off base alittle but there are some interesting post here that have helped all of us understand the world of cues because if you say to some one who isnt into pool cues what you paid for a mottey they look at you like your nuts!! Ebay is a secondary market and i agree 100 percent that it doesnt set the market value for certain cues.Each person has there own reason for selling off a cue and there are things in life that are more important than a pool cue. My statement was that i do not sell a cue off at below what it should bring and if i have to borrow money to hold onto a cue til i get the right price than that is what i do. Joe,i have bought cues from you and mark before and i have no problem with either. Skips cues are great and i dont knock them one bit. Gilbert makes a awesome looking cue and the craftsmanship is a1,and i have a hard on for that fannelli on classiccues so there all good. Personelly,if a cuemaker decides to sell only to overseas than who cares,there are so many new cuemakers out there I'll just get a cue from the 3 I just mentioned. Money drives everything in this country and if black boar and joe gold are getting rich from lucky more power to them. And sherm,your right there too as far as great cuemakers.But like it was mentioned,there's only so much money for cues in the us market,lets face it,our economy sucks and the asians control everything. Even ebay has a small circle of cue buyers because lets face it,we all know each other on first name basis and have our cell phone number for each other. There are some new buyers out there butwith all the scams even with over 200 postive feedbacks there's questions about my cues i sell. There is one certain cuemake who uses ebay exclusively to market his cues that is a custom cuemaker by title but I dont know if he should be saying that anymore IMO :D
 
cuedoctor said:
there are things in life that are more important than a pool cue.
HERETIC! LOL JK
Everyone has ideas of why ebay has such an impact on the cue market, and this is mine. I think back in the year 5 BE (Before Ebay) there were a lot more ex-players with cues in their closets. Without an easy way to find buyers and not wanting to accept what a yard sale would yield, these cues sat idol in closets. Now all those cues are coming out of the closets and onto the market. It used to be cuemakers had to supply players, collectors and a bunch of closets. Now they only have players and collectors and if that weren't bad enough, they also have to compete with the closets. I think 'double whammy' is the term economists use for this phenomenon.

Tracy
 
classiccues said:
Now here is the catch, if "I" use ebay in my advantage to negotiate a cue, I am a crook. But still half the cues don't sell on ebay, they sell off line. So you really don't get a sense of whats going on. If you do a listing of cue, highest priced first, there maybe only bids on 6 of the first 25 cues. If one was to solely look at that, they may think the cue market is DEAD. But in reality, the fact there are no bids come from a plethora of reasons. People with low feedback ratings don't get bids all the time, maybe the starting price is high, etc.. its just not reliable. Guide sure, but you need to weigh all the variables.

Now lets say I want to "inflate" say.. Skip Westons market. I could. He is now only making 4-5 cues a month. I could buy every one he is capable of making. Lets say after his current orders run through, I lock him up. So now his wait instead of 8-12 mos is indefinite. This is what I believe Lucky to be doing with certain cuemakers. I don't do it because I feel it is unfair. Believe me, I know what it is like to want to order a cue and be involved in the process from the get go. I don't want to be a dick, or a perceived cue tyrant. I have had certain cuemakers, I was on their lists, knock me off their lists because of Mark and the collapse of his friendships with them (nothing to do with me). Am I disappointed? Sure but you know what, I am more of a man than they are and I could be here badmouthing the crap out of them. But why bother? This is why I understand the need to be part of the process, and the disappointment when you cannot get a cue for whatever the reason.

Joe

I don't have the time or energy but this post has more funny stuff in it then all your others in the last week. LOL Thanks Joe.

Jim <---Your pal ;-)
 
JimBo said:
I don't have the time or energy but this post has more funny stuff in it then all your others in the last week. LOL Thanks Joe.

Jim <---Your pal ;-)

But it contains something none of your posts contain... the truth.

Joe (---thats from me... not Mark FYI
 
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