Hot Cues?

[cueaddicts]

Its like buying a mecedes with no ac. Now if i was buying a 72 vw beetle i would expect no ac. Like I said,most of the top cuemakers put ivory on there high end cues,they dont expect the buyer to have to mess with there shafts to have ivory added to a cue thats got alot of ivory in it already. This is just a observation. And I aint alone on this,i am at all the shows and people say the same thing to me.. Were not talking about these 4 point players cues,were talking like the 3500 gilbert i saw at the derby,I am not going to go over to blackburn and have him redo the tips and ferrules after spending 3500 on a cue,Never have had to before and I aint starting for gilbert or any of them.I guess the truly great cue makers all ready realized that,thats why there great.
mottey,gina,hercek,szambotis,blacks,
Never have i found a cue from these that didnt have ivory on them
Maybe its there brokers who get 30 % off who say dont bother,it'll cost me more and i wont get my return on it. and yes,i can call andy to make a cue with ivory ferrules but i dont have to call any of those others to get it,its already there!

Then don't buy it if it's not what you want...simple as that.

Let me ask you this....would you not buy TW's "Celtic Prince" for say, $5,000, if it did not have ivory ferrules ??? (I don't think it does but could be wrong)

 

[SkippyFL]

You know, in a round about way I agree with you...."a cue that's loaded out with work and ivory inlays should have IMO ivory ferrules". But tell that to Joe Gold, Mike Capone, Richard Harris, etc. Like Andy, there are many cuemakers that think ivory ferrules take away from the hit they want in their cues.

I have seen several Motteys, Blacks, and even a few of Barry's cues made without ivory ferrules...the way the customers ordered, and some of them were loaded out with work. It's all about preference.

Andy Gilbert plays pretty good pool...definitely good enough to know how a players cue should play. Andy makes all of his cues to perform and play, even the fanciest ones. He also has enough options (joint style, shaft tapers, etc.) to custom suit a player with a specific preference in "hit".

Tap Tap Tap!

 

[cuedoctor]

gilbert

Then don't buy it if it's not what you want...simple as that.

Let me ask you this....would you not buy TW's "Celtic Prince" for say, $5,000, if it did not have ivory ferrules ??? (I don't think it does but could be wrong)

I didnt,it was at your booth,but it did sell because it was gone at valley forge.
As far as thomas wayne,his cues dont do anything for me. so I would take the 5000 and put it toward a gus instead

 

[cuedoctor]

gilberts and others

Tap Tap Tap!

this post is just to gather some info on some of these cuemakers and will be picking up a gilbert soon so its not that i dont like his work. Its just speaking my mind about some of the b/s on this and other sites.everyone has a opion and sometimes its best to throw it out there and see what sticks to the wall so to speak.I have had some pm on this subject praising me for have the balls to do it and i appreciate all you feedback and skippy,you got a good deal on your gilbert! Its a plain gilbert but it has the right colors!

 

[SkippyFL]

this post is just to gather some info on some of these cuemakers and will be picking up a gilbert soon so its not that i dont like his work. Its just speaking my mind about some of the b/s on this and other sites.everyone has a opion and sometimes its best to throw it out there and see what sticks to the wall so to speak.I have had some pm on this subject praising me for have the balls to do it and i appreciate all you feedback and skippy,you got a good deal on your gilbert! Its a plain gilbert but it has the right colors!

Thanks! I love it. It looks and feels great. I also have a Gilbert J/B now that I picked up from Shorty that is very nice too. I am a big fan of "Player's" cues. I don't care for a lot of inlay work or ivory just some points and nice veneers.

Skippy

 

[XzyluM]

I don't see how it's bullshit that a cuemaker doesn't use ivory ferrules. There's no doubt ivory joints and ferrules will increase the value of a cue. Not everyone wants ivory ferrules and plenty of cuemakers feel ivory takes away from the hit of the cue. Some players don't like ivory ferrules. Just because a cue is priced at a grand or two or more doesn't mean it is mandatory to have ivory ferrules used. I doubt many collectors or even players have turned down a good deal or a cue they really liked just because it didn't come with ivory ferrules installed.

 

[prewarhero]

a lil disappointed in the board

First of all, why does everything have to be a big conspiracy. Like the cue dealers have the time or the energy to promote a cue maker just to move a half dozen of this cues in 6 months. Andy's cues are talked about for several reasons. One, they play great. Two, he does nice work, and three his price point is very good to boot. They hit the nail on the head with the time frame for a new cue vs. getting one used on ebay. And anyone who shops on ebay (unless it is the 1 of a kind super rare bushka) everyone is looking for a deal, beit the 3500 dollar mottey for 1900 bucks or the 800 dollar schon for 350.

As far as the ivory ferruls go. It is a big money maker out there for cue makers. they buy the ferruls at 15 bucks a piece and charge 75 per shaft for them. thats over a 100 bucks per cue. If they make 100 cues a year with 2 shafts thats thats an extra 10 grand a year just from the ferruls. If the ivory ferrul was the end of all ends then you would see a standard developing here in the sport, but there is not, so it just comes down to prefrence. But they do add the resale value of a cue.

Dealers: - keep on keeping on, and maybe you will get in that fancy Ernie Martinez cue with 2 shafts and 18.5 oz I have been waiting for for several years now

 

[cueaddicts]

this post is just to gather some info on some of these cuemakers and will be picking up a gilbert soon so its not that i dont like his work. Its just speaking my mind about some of the b/s on this and other sites.everyone has a opion and sometimes its best to throw it out there and see what sticks to the wall so to speak.I have had some pm on this subject praising me for have the balls to do it and i appreciate all you feedback and skippy,you got a good deal on your gilbert! Its a plain gilbert but it has the right colors!

"balls to do" what? - go after a cuemaker because he doesn't have ivory ferrules on his fancier cues?

This goes for any cuemaker out there but (not just Andy), but he simply thinks that what he's using is superior to ivory for the hit of his cues...his opinion. What's cool about Andy is that although he might disagree with you, he will install ivory ferrules per your request.

Trust me...there are a lot of less accomodating cuemakers out there...and at a lot higher prices.

 

[Salamander]

Why don't you order one from Ernie yourself. : )
He's supposedly back in business. Of course, you must hope that he doesn't quite before you're cue is done.

Regards,
Doug

"Dealers: - keep on keeping on, and maybe you will get in that fancy Ernie Martinez cue with 2 shafts and 18.5 oz I have been waiting for for several years now [/QUOTE]"

 

[cuesmith]

I'll guarantee, that if the plastics that are available today, were available in the early days of cuemaking, there would never have been a tusk cut up for use in cuemaking. For balls either for that matter!

Does that mean that I don't like ivory and do not make it available to my customers? NO, but it's simply not the best material available for ferrules. The fact that it raises the value of a cue is hardly arguable, but there are better plastics available for cuemaking. If the market was bigger there would be even better ones I imagine!

just more hot air!
Sherm

 

[cuedoctor]

ivory

I'll guarantee, that if the plastics that are available today, were available in the early days of cuemaking, there would never have been a tusk cut up for use in cuemaking. For balls either for that matter!

Does that mean that I don't like ivory and do not make it available to my customers? NO, but it's simply not the best material available for ferrules. The fact that it raises the value of a cue is hardly arguable, but there are better plastics available for cuemaking. If the market was bigger there would be even better ones I imagine!

just more hot air!
Sherm

You may have something there,If i weren't acusome to have ivory in cues and ferrules then I wont know the difference.And I do understand that the percentage of players and collectors may be split 50-50 on which materials they like best. For that matter doesnt earl stickland use a cutec cue with electrical tape for a grip!! I am not saying which material may hit better either.if you can play it dont matter! Thats why I need all the help I can GET!!!!

 

[cuedoctor]

Balls

"balls to do" what? - go after a cuemaker because he doesn't have ivory ferrules on his fancier cues?

This goes for any cuemaker out there but (not just Andy), but he simply thinks that what he's using is superior to ivory for the hit of his cues...his opinion. What's cool about Andy is that although he might disagree with you, he will install ivory ferrules per your request.

Trust me...there are a lot of less accomodating cuemakers out there...and at a lot higher prices.

This post wasnt just about andy but its getting to be since your a dealer of his!The post was about all the bull shit the same az'er's post about cues they personaly have a business stake in. I wasnt looking for bais opions from there dealers to begin with but your welcome to jump in,thats no problem. And you dont need to hammer me about andy's cues because they are ok in my book even before this post went up.I just wanted to find the TRUE market demand for his cues and that would be the secondary market anyway. I believe you when you say andy is the best,I have no reason to doubt that since I have not delt with him directly not me. We could chat all month about this but the true test will be 5 years from now what his market is,hopefully great

 

[cuedoctor]

ebay

First of all, why does everything have to be a big conspiracy. Like the cue dealers have the time or the energy to promote a cue maker just to move a half dozen of this cues in 6 months. Andy's cues are talked about for several reasons. One, they play great. Two, he does nice work, and three his price point is very good to boot. They hit the nail on the head with the time frame for a new cue vs. getting one used on ebay. And anyone who shops on ebay (unless it is the 1 of a kind super rare bushka) everyone is looking for a deal, beit the 3500 dollar mottey for 1900 bucks or the 800 dollar schon for 350.

As far as the ivory ferruls go. It is a big money maker out there for cue makers. they buy the ferruls at 15 bucks a piece and charge 75 per shaft for them. thats over a 100 bucks per cue. If they make 100 cues a year with 2 shafts thats thats an extra 10 grand a year just from the ferruls. If the ivory ferrul was the end of all ends then you would see a standard developing here in the sport, but there is not, so it just comes down to prefrence. But they do add the resale value of a cue.

Dealers: - keep on keeping on, and maybe you will get in that fancy Ernie Martinez cue with 2 shafts and 18.5 oz I have been waiting for for several years now

As far as anyone looking on ebay is only looling to get a bargain here's one for all those out there who set up at the shows. A good percentage of the cues at your booths were bought on ebay THATS A FACT because at the derby i saw many cues like the fancy palmer and hercek and scruggs cues bought on ebay and for sale there.So I guess there bargain hunters too.I dont care,if they want to buy low on ebay and sell high at the derby or else were thats a free market.And I know the id's on ebay of these dealers so lets not blow this up.

 

[cueaddicts]

This post wasnt just about andy but its getting to be since your a dealer of his!The post was about all the bull shit the same az'er's post about cues they personaly have a business stake in. I wasnt looking for bais opions from there dealers to begin with but your welcome to jump in,thats no problem. And you dont need to hammer me about andy's cues because they are ok in my book even before this post went up.I just wanted to find the TRUE market demand for his cues and that would be the secondary market anyway. I believe you when you say andy is the best,I have no reason to doubt that since I have not delt with him directly not me. We could chat all month about this but the true test will be 5 years from now what his market is,hopefully great

Buddy, sorry if you perceive me as hammering you. That was not the intent....just trying to understand your logic or angle you're coming from. It just sounds to me like you have not kept up with the times in that a lot of today's cuemakers have gotten away from ivory ferrules, regardless of the price of the cue or what kind of work is in it. Ivory is getting more expensive and the synthetics are much, much better than they were 15-20 years ago.

I will always give anyone my unbiased opinion on anything or any cue. As I said earlier in the thread, I personally prefer the hit of ivory ferrules over anything else on the market...on any cue.

Also, I'm not saying that Andy Gilbert is the best, but he is certainly one of the best out there for what you get for your money. I certain that the market for Andy's cues will be super 5 years from now. Trust me.....very certain.

 

[Rackin_Zack]

Just A Comment About Cues I See Chatted Up On Az. I Have Seen Gilbert,faneeli, And Weston Cues On A Few Auction Sites Including Ebay And Others And They Dont Get Much Action Or Half The Money They Are Supose To Get If You Believe All These Threads,whats Some Opions On This, I See A Fanelli On Classic Cues Thats Been There Forever And Its On Fire Sale Right Now?

I guess I'll post my thoughts on this topic seeing as I have a cue from each of the cuemakers mentioned on order as we speak...lol. I've not played with a Fanelli yet but I liked what I saw posted on here and I think that the butterfly cues go much quicker and are what he is becoming known for. I'm sure my Fanelli will play great when I get it!

I got my first Skip Weston after seeing his work online and hearing a decent number of people say that they liked the hit. I have to say that Skip's point work is as good, or better, than any maker I've seen either in person or online. This in and of itself was enough for me to order the cue without playing with one first. I received the cue and it is the best hitting cue I've played with to date. I have another cue on order from Skip and I'm sure that cue will play very well also, along with being drop-dead gorgeous.

I live in Missouri so I first was exposed to Gilbert's J/B and then ordered a somewhat fancy cue from cueaddicts. This cue was an excellent player and Andy's point work is very good as well.

When all is said and done, I think that once these makers are more widely known that they will indeed be more sought after. That being said, even if they aren't more popular in the future, that doesn't make their work any less viable as they all still make great cues. With so many cuemakers out there doing excellent work it's not easy to distinguish yourself in a saturated market. If any cuemakers have the chance to distinguish themselves, these makers are at the top of the list.

 

[Bustah360]

I'm just curious, I saw a post someone put up saying that ivory muffle the true hit when used. Now this isn't what I want when getting a cue, I'd like as true a hit as possible. My preference is definitely a soft hitting cue. I'm actually in the market for a custom and considering one of andy's cues but I need to know if an ivory joint causes a softer hit. The ivory ferrule thing threw me off for a sec there cuz I wouldn't want anything but a natural hit, and am worried about the same happening for the ivory joint. Thx!

 

[classiccues]

The truth is said.. These are dealers promoting cuemakers who will give them discounts and usually heavy discounts..or buyers who bought into the dealers line of this being the greatest up and coming cuemaker since Searing...

There is no loyalty.. As soon as the discount stops so will the promoting..As soon as the buyer dumps their cue so will the promoting..

People talk smack about ebay but it now determines the value of a cue for all of us.. You dont see these guys promoting these cues buying the gilberts, westons, fanellis on ebay for the low prices because they know thats what they are actually worth and they cant make any money buying them even at ebay prices.. Ebay is our value guide until a new one comes out..

Do you want to know what also determines the value... 2 people.. It takes 2 people interested in spending money and determined to buy one brand to drive the market value of a cue up..

Look what jswone and attilimari did to ebay about 9 months ago..

Define heavy discount.. two problems with your arguement, A- Weston has been making his cues for 13-15 years, so he was already making it in the NJ area before we started selling his cues. B- He makes a great hitting cue and his work IS as good OR better than some people that are on the top lists in the poll thread. I know, I loop alot of cues. The only issue is he doesn't feel the need to crank out 4.5k or higher cues. He could put out incredible pieces, I have asked on multiple occasion, that would make some other cues look like they were whittled with a bowie.

Ebay is NOT a value guide. Why? Because some clowns use shill bidders to drive prices up or pull auctions before they run out. You won't see a cue go for value on ebay.

As far as two people driving up the prices.. no arguement there. But there are deeper issues than two people going cue crazy.

Joe

 

[JimBo]

The truth is said.. These are dealers promoting cuemakers who will give them discounts and usually heavy discounts..or buyers who bought into the dealers line of this being the greatest up and coming cuemaker since Searing...

There is no loyalty.. As soon as the discount stops so will the promoting..As soon as the buyer dumps their cue so will the promoting..

People talk smack about ebay but it now determines the value of a cue for all of us.. You dont see these guys promoting these cues buying the gilberts, westons, fanellis on ebay for the low prices because they know thats what they are actually worth and they cant make any money buying them even at ebay prices.. Ebay is our value guide until a new one comes out..

Do you want to know what also determines the value... 2 people.. It takes 2 people interested in spending money and determined to buy one brand to drive the market value of a cue up..

..

Except for the Searing ass kissing I agree with this post 100%.

Jim

 

[classiccues]

ME,I LIST CUES AND IF THEY DONT GET A FAIR VALUE BID I WONT SELL IT BUT THERE ARE THOSE WHO WILL LET THEM GO FOR PERSONAL REASONS BUT ME,I WONT DUMP A CUE BECAUSE IT WILL ONLY HURT THERE VALUE IN THE LONG RUN. PEOPLE EMAIL ME ALL THE TIME AND WHEN I TELL THEM THE BOTTOM LINE THEY DONT AGREE BUT THERE ARE ONLY 2 TIMES IN LIKE A 100 CUES THAT I DIDNT GET WHAT I WANTED IN A CUE,I HAD A GINA UP A MONTH AGO AND HAD MANY INQUIRES BUT THE PRICE WAS NOT WHAT BARGAIN HUNTERS WANTED AND I DIDNT FOLD,4 DAYS INTO THE AUCTION A GUY PAYS ME EXACTLY WHAT I SAID IT WAS WORTH AND HAD THE MONEY IN MY HANDS IN 24 HOURS SO EBAY CAN BE GOOD. MY POINT IS THAT YES EBAY DOES NOT ALWAYS SET THE MARKET VALUE ON A CUE BUT WHEN YOU SEE CERTAIN CUEMAKERS CUES ALWAYS DO NOTHING THAN THAT SAYS SOMETHING . I AM NOT KNOCKING ANY OF THE FORE MENTIONED CUEMAKERS BUT AM DOING SOME HOME WORK BEFORE I BUY ONE OF THE CUES MENTIONED.I USUALLY BUY ONLY CUES THAT ARE ALWAYS MARKETABLE SO DIVING INTO THESE NEW CUEMAKERS IS SOMETIMES RISKY. I BUY CUES TO PLAY BUT ALWAYS LOOK AT THEM FROM A MARKET SENSE BECAUSE I MUST HAVE A SHORT ATTENTION SPAN BECAUSE I ALWAYS SEE SOMETHING ELSE I LIKE AND CANT RESIST! I HAVENT HAD TOO MANY CUES THAT DIDNT HIT GREAT AND SKIPS IVORY JOINTED ONE WAS JAM UP AND THE USUAL MOTTEYS THAT ALWAYS PLAY NUMBER 1 . SO THAT IS THE REASON I POSTED THIS,NOT TO KNOCK THESE CUEMAKER. I HAVE SEEN SOME AWESOME GILBERT AT THE SHOWS!

One of my big problems dealing is it always seems to be a one way street. Especially with other dealers. I have cut some very nice prices to sell cues, I was contantly told, when I get something in I know you want, I will call you. You know how many times that happened? F**King never. The collectors, same deal, oh I will buy this then I will take that, again.. more often then not, they never come back. But I realize that this is going to happen, so I try to keep my cool. You know whats funny to me, I low ball and I am sleezy.. a customer / collector lowballs, he is just trying to buy low. What happened to sleezy? Its one of the main reasons I have been toying with getting out, its to ridiculous sometimes to even comprehend. I own two cues I am selling, if I sold them, I might dissappear.

Joe

 

[JimBo]

First of all, why does everything have to be a big conspiracy. Like the cue dealers have the time or the energy to promote a cue maker just to move a half dozen of this cues in 6 months. Andy's cues are talked about for several reasons. One, they play great. Two, he does nice work, and three his price point is very good to boot. They hit the nail on the head with the time frame for a new cue vs. getting one used on ebay. And anyone who shops on ebay (unless it is the 1 of a kind super rare bushka) everyone is looking for a deal, beit the 3500 dollar mottey for 1900 bucks or the 800 dollar schon for 350.

It's no big conspiracy, it's called marketing and it's what they do. They do have the time and the energy and it's how they make money. Why someone would ignore it is something that would worry me more. I say do your own research and buy what you like, don't depend on others. I never listen to salesman when it comes to advice on what to buy. People without agendas are few and far between, but you can learn a lot if you know how to sort them out.

Jim