How do you spot a hustler?

YEAH! JMB is right. After all, pool halls are only for people who are looking to become addicted to gambling, not for people who ENJOY A FUCKING SPORT!

haha.

and what the hell are all those NFL, NBA, and MLB guys calling themselves athletes and players for? I hear they aren't even allowed to gamble... They should go back to the YMCA and play children!

JMB - some people like to bet for drinks or a couple of bucks because it's fun and it makes you play harder and pay more attention. it means your opponent will give you a good game, and that's better all around. not everyone is deluding themselves into thinking that because they bet big money on a little table game they're important or special. some people just wanna unwind and have a little fun... haha.
 
Learning a ton, thanks for the replys, yes I really did have to go and meet my wife, no I didn't tell the guy my timeframe to play up front. If I would've had time I would have stuck around and played the guy a few more games at 10 bucks a game but I wasn't interested in doubling the bet.

I've been on alot worse forums so the harshness of some of the comments bothers me a little, but it's a free country and people are entitled to their opinions. I asked for opinions and I can't really expect to like them all.

I'll keep some of this stuff in mind for the future.

edit: Though I think I'll ignore the YMCA advice as I don't think they sell beer, however I promise not to play anyone with shit spewing out of their mouths that way me and JMB will never have to play.
 
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Chokeinator- why don't you set up a little "gambling stash"? Just put $10 here and $5 there into your stash, save up about $50 or so, then play someone in a small set for more cash, that way you get more games for your money. It's just better practice IMO to play for cash, but not so much on one game. Especially when you're a lower caliber player (I don't know your level of play, just in general).

Zim
 
Zims Rack said:
Chokeinator- why don't you set up a little "gambling stash"? Just put $10 here and $5 there into your stash, save up about $50 or so, then play someone in a small set for more cash, that way you get more games for your money. It's just better practice IMO to play for cash, but not so much on one game. Especially when you're a lower caliber player (I don't know your level of play, just in general).

Zim
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Usually when I do go look for a game I do exactly what your talking about. Race to 3 for 10, or a race to 6 for 20. That usually is when I play better players and they get 10 or 20 bucks and I get to see their game and improve, I agree it's better to play for stakes of some kind, it just makes playing more interesting, it doesn't need to be my rent for me personally to have fun however.
 
Hmmm,,,I understand the points all the way around this topic. Sure you dont lock up and gamble with someone and quit on them up. But, Choke I think you did the right thing. Take the $20 and run.

1st: This guy approached you for a game which you didnt want to gamble.

2nd: He made the prop bet of playin 1 handed.

3rd: You win 1, then play again, up 2.

4th: He wants to double, you dont...Game Over go home.

You didnt ask for the game, and you didnt commit to a $20 game to begin with. You might have told him you would keep playin for $10 at least to keep him happy, but who cares. Take the money and run....Since your pocket allowed you 20 for a week spending, then it looks like you got next weeks covered.
 
Chokeinator said:
Learning a ton, thanks for the replys
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This thread showed me how some folks have learned or self created dogmatic conceptions of how things must be or should be. I am not bound by any of it. I am free to chose whether, with whom, for how much, and for how long I gamble.

What anyone else thinks of my behavior is on them, not me. I go by my gut feelings at any given moment.

Regards,
God
 
Well put God.

If the guy who you thought was trying to hustle you was a real huslter, he knew what he was getting into with you before you two even spoke. Some times you cant read a book by the cover, but you can certainly tell what the book is about after a page or two.

He should have known that you were'nt even a fish, you were small fry.

If you played him twice, won both times and walked good for you. He obvioulsy thought he could show you up by offering to play one handed. Look who showed up who...I say.
 
chokeinator,

The guys that slammed you are definately identifying with the other guy,and they've long since forgotten what the game looks like from your perspective. O.K., you could have been more upfront with how much you had on you and how long you had to play, but the other guy could have been alot more upfront with his skill level. As rickw said the logic is pretty twisted, and while ducking out of bets early might get your ass kicked, so could hustling the wrong people. He was trying to trap you, and you were trying to hang on to your money, and you won. He's mad, and the sharks on this forum are mad because enough guys like you could break them over time, but the differance IMHO between a pro gambler and somebody in Gambleholics Anonymous is quitting while your ahead.
 
14.1 said:
chokeinator,

The guys that slammed you are definately identifying with the other guy,and they've long since forgotten what the game looks like from your perspective. O.K., you could have been more upfront with how much you had on you and how long you had to play, but the other guy could have been alot more upfront with his skill level. As rickw said the logic is pretty twisted, and while ducking out of bets early might get your ass kicked, so could hustling the wrong people. He was trying to trap you, and you were trying to hang on to your money, and you won. He's mad, and the sharks on this forum are mad because enough guys like you could break them over time, but the differance IMHO between a pro gambler and somebody in Gambleholics Anonymous is quitting while your ahead.
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If you go back and read the original post I told the guy up front that I didn't have much money before he ever propositioned me. Some of the stuff you are mentioning is where I am getting confused in the etiquette involved, some of the stuff I'm getting slammed for and not understanding....

A)Give the guy a chance to win his money back

I played the guy twice, so he had a chance to win his money back.

B)It's poor etiquette to play two games and leave, you should play sets etc etc etc...

The only set ever agreed on was ONE individual game, I was being nice playing a second and if I didn't have to leave and he hadn't raised the bet I would have happily kept playing till he won his money back.

In the future however just because of all the negativity I will make it clear to the next person I play that one set means one set unless I decide to keep playing and that win or lose if I decide to leave at anytime then that's that. Something I don't feel I should have to do, but can.

C)A majority of the guys berating me agree that the guy was probably a road player or hustler yet they berate me for the way I handled the situation, I'm still trying to figure out where the logic is in extending unwritten courtesies to someone that was intentionally attempting to deceive me. That just doesn't make sense, he's intentionally laying down trying to sucker me so when I catch on I'm expected to give him a chance to break even, isn't that kind of encouraging his behavior?

Oh well thanks for the replies.
 
Choke,

A couple of things need to be clarified here. First of all, I got from your post that you weren't playing before this guy asks you to play, right? If that's the case, then you weren't necessarily being hustled. Did you ever check to see if this guy hustled anyone else? Was he a road player (I doubt it)?

It's just a good idea to be upfront with people and say, "Hey, I don't have much cash and I don't have much time. I'll play you two games or whatever." What you don't know is that there are a few people out there that do this kind of thing all the time. They have $5 in their pocket and play for $5 hoping they'll win. The other guy might have $200 and he's risking losing that against the guy with $5. People get a little pissy about that. And then there are even some that bet and have nothing in their pockets. We usually call that shooting an airball. This is really frowned on!!

Don't feel bad. No one should expect you to know all this. You only learn it from either being in and around a pool hall or you learn it here. This is a better place to learn. Consider yourself lucky.
 
Rickw said:
Choke,

A couple of things need to be clarified here. First of all, I got from your post that you weren't playing before this guy asks you to play, right? If that's the case, then you weren't necessarily being hustled. Did you ever check to see if this guy hustled anyone else? Was he a road player (I doubt it)?

It's just a good idea to be upfront with people and say, "Hey, I don't have much cash and I don't have much time. I'll play you two games or whatever." What you don't know is that there are a few people out there that do this kind of thing all the time. They have $5 in their pocket and play for $5 hoping they'll win. The other guy might have $200 and he's risking losing that against the guy with $5. People get a little pissy about that. And then there are even some that bet and have nothing in their pockets. We usually call that shooting an airball. This is really frowned on!!

Don't feel bad. No one should expect you to know all this. You only learn it from either being in and around a pool hall or you learn it here. This is a better place to learn. Consider yourself lucky.
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Yes you're correct, he never saw me play, I was sitting at the bar drinking a beer and watching him and another guy play. I know a couple of the locals that were there and just out of sheer curiousity I'll ask tonight (if the guy actually beat anyone or just got drunk and lost to everyone in the joint) when I go to play in a tournament they have every monday night.

Either way I don't feel bad, if he was just some Joe Schmo getting drunk then I only took 20 off him where someone else probably would have cleaned him out.

If he was a true hustler or road player I doubt 20 phased him too much and he kind of deserved it.

If he was a wanabee hustler then he learned a valuable lesson.

Quite frankly I find the subject interesting at minimum, and I'm happy to have a variety of opinions on the subject. These boards are quite informative on a variety of subjects within billiards, and it's very entertaining as well. Believe me I feel lucky.
 
Choke, You are looking for logic in an illogical situation? Duh.

Anyway, I doubt that anybody is slamming you, just trying to wise you up. If you played around here I wouldn't say a thing, just go and watch you play. And not mess up the other guys action. Unless I knew you personally. But I take it you both are adults so you are responsible for your own actions. (Is that word still used in the Government schools now?).

Also keep in mind in a situation like you had the guy just may have watched you leave and took notice of your car. Then the next time you went back it just might get keyed, or a tire cut, or a brick through the windshield. Sh** happens. All people who go to the pool room are not fine upstanding citizens with nice morals.

Since you didn't go for the double bet I am surprised that he didn't offer to play you again for ten. Then he would get lucky and win that game. Since he only won because he got "lucky" maybe then you would double to twenty. And lo and behold he gets lucky again. Now you are down ten. Well, hells bells he can't get lucky again so you go for another twenty and guess what? He wins again. Down $30. And you are trapped. And from now on you will never win another game.

Just like three card monte. The only time the sucker wins is when the dealer wants him to win.

Hey, maybe he was just an old timer who really couldn't play and has more money than sense, and you missed out on some easy money.

Next time you go back see if he will play you again for ten. If you win maybe he will double up and if you win you can be thirty up. sounds like easy money for you.

I know you have been thinking about it. So go and give it a try.
You can't lose, you are playing with his money.

Jake
 
chokinators wife:

I would like to say thankyou all of you for the views exspressed. And especially thank those who have supported my husband, I understand both sides.

But speaking from a great deal of experience (playing pool since I was five) I agree with those who thought my husband made a good decision.
I am starting my 39th week (9 months +)of being pregnant and being due at any moment --Enhances the stupidity of continuing to challenge---- What clearly was a hustler, while his wife needed him at home because I was experiencing early labor.

He wanted to go out for an hour or so to relax because of all of the pregnency drama--in and out of the hospital--- and play few racks with someone other then his wife, who's game is up and down because of a hanging stomach and an irritable head aches.

This guy approached him with the audasity of playing with one hand... When he came home I told him he was lucky to have won.. My husband plays many of the tornaments around here and does very well he loves to play and he uses his head and heart in everything he does.

I think the defining point in this discussion is-- he went out for an hour or so knowing that I asked him to be back by 630pm-- when he went into the bar He was approached-- Not the other way around-- my husband did not owe this man anything!!! --- I am aware of the ethics in playing pool, but who is kidding who##

My husband did not initiate anything therefore he is not held to those particular shark rules-- Note::: I say shark ethics--

I think he did a good job keeping his promise to me by comming home when I asked him to. He is a good man and takes great care of me.

As for the sharks out there-- I am one of you, but I know when to walk away....

Please refur to the Kenny Rogers song "The Gambler." and keep in mind somethings like:: life, family, and goodwill take presidence over some man's EGO or some sharks wallet. And as Kenny said never count your money while your sitting at the table.. the most you can hope for is to die in your sleep..

I really feel sorry for those who can't walk away. My husband and I may be small fry without the backing to gamble on big games, but where were from it's big enough to do what pool was ment to do!!
-- be relaxing ---invite socialization, and be a fun rewarding game when it's played by people who have not forgotten how good that first clean hard 8 ball shot sounded when they first got addicted to the game.

Those who have to play for 5 large or more tend to take the fun out of the game,, at least for me I get bored easilly and like a good strong game and yes sometimes betting for a beer or a few small fry dollars makes it more interesting, but in all reallity it just enhances bragging rights and lends its self to camraderie in what I like to call the pool social scene and in our town everyone knows everyone.. Have a good evening.. chokes wife
 
I'm not sure how I feel about this entire topic. I think most everyone has raised some good points, but I am still on the fense.

Choke - I agree with the people who say you are a bit green. I also agree that you quit at the right time. It seems to me that the guy was just showing off a bit.

Let me give you an example. I was in the bar a couple of weeks ago, and there were 2 friends shooting some 8 ball. I knew I was way better than these 2 (not trying to be egotistical, just the truth). SO I go up to them and ask which was the better player. I then offered that he could remove 5 balls from the table of my choosing, after the break - for a break. Some would call this a hustler trick, but honestly it still is kind of a challange. I thought this would be a fair game. He turned me down and decided to play me straight up.

Needless to say, I didn't pay for another drink that night, and we all had a blast. They knew they were out classed, and they honestly had a good time buying me beers all night. I thought it was a bit strange, but I wasn't going to aruge.

Was I hustling these guys? Nope. Did they loose money to a better player? Yup. Would they say they were hustled? Not a chance.

Choke -- With the new baby on the way, you don't need to be gambleing on pool at all. There are pleanty of good players in my area who will give you a good ane for free (maybe not thier best, but still good). Just find someone whose style you like, buddy up with them, buy them a couple of beers, etc. I consider myself a pretty accomplished player and gambler, and I have found myself in a couple of tight spots with players I knew well, and should have been able to beat, even one-handed ;)
 
AzBlueMach1: out classed? try "out skilled" not out classed.

reguardless.

at 3 pages in this thread people are saying the same things over and over.
 
I’ve resisted the urge, until now, to read this thread. Something about your handle gives off negative waves. But after reading it, I must say that you didn’t do anything wrong.

Those who imply that quitting early isn’t something a stand up guy would do, are, well, just full of BS. Plain and simple. The posters here don’t know you or the situation so the only judge in this matter is you and/or perhaps your wife (as to your up standingness). I like to stir the sh_t occasionally but some posters here are master stirrers, I’m just an apprentice. Realizing your financial responsibilities and having a tight budget, wife and baby on the way, makes you more respectable, IMO, than most all the pool players anyway. So, don’t take any of this too seriously.

The facts as you stated them:
He bragged about beating anyone "I'm just messing around I could take all you guys money if I wanted."

When questioned about playing for money, you said, “I would if I wasn't so broke.”

He asked you to play anyway and offered to play one-handed.

I doubt very seriously that he was a hustler at all, more likely someone trying to show off a little and bet something to make life a little more exciting. It’s kinda funny but not every Tom, Dick or Harry betting a few bucks on a game is a hustler. Some posters may believe otherwise.

I’d view this situation as just plain gambling, like pitching quarters to the wall or drawing high card. He wasn’t interested in matching up to compete against you skill wise. He was just trying for a quick buck and lost.

Remember that after winning $20 it suddenly becomes YOUR money, not his money. You’re under no obligation to continue. And for someone who’s been gambling a while, they should understand that.

Rick
 
To learn how to spot the hustle try watching a DVD entitled POOL HALL JUNKIES. Very funny!
 
You know this post kind of relates to some of the other threads on the image of billiards as a sport.

Many people agree that pool needs to change its image to become more popular, yet people find the subject of hustlers and hustling immensely entertaining. This thread is proof of that, since it began it's had more views and replies than most of the recent and more billiard relevant threads on this board.

My personal opinion as to why billiards will probably be unable to ever overcome this stigma is the fact that it's a sport of subtleties
that naturally lends itself to hustling type activities. As pointed out in this thread itself often even where nothing is happening conspiracy theories are abundant, because of the nature of the sport, simply because the only way to know for sure would be to do the impossible, and read the thoughts of your opponent.

I personally find the subject immensely entertaining and love watching movies and reading books on the subject. So as far as cleaning up the image of billiards I guess that leaves me on the fence, because some of the less favorable aspects of the game in some peoples eyes are areas that I find entertaining. Ofcourse I find the Mafia fascinating too and love reading books and watching movies about it but that doesn't necessarily mean I want to be in the mob.

Just some random thoughts. Have a nice day to all.
 
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