I find myself having the same cloth as other tables I play at but it always seems that these other tables play much faster. So I am wondering if the issue could be my table's cloth was not pulled tightly enough upon installation. Is there a simple way to tell if this is the case?
How do you tell if your table cloth has not been pulled tightly enough?
- Thread starter newcuer
- Start date
Does it move when you place your bridge down? Other suspects are the cushions. This is a weird one because if they aren't set low enough, banks will be absorbed under the noses. The most common issue though is on a properly set table, new cloth will absorb most of the rebound response. The ball mostly slides and actually fights the rebound going away from the cushion.
It's also possible you have humidity issues. This can slow down the cloth considerably but strangely enough, also improve the apparent cushion response.
Short answer, aside from the cloth moving or obvious wrinkles, IDK.
It's also possible you have humidity issues. This can slow down the cloth considerably but strangely enough, also improve the apparent cushion response.
Short answer, aside from the cloth moving or obvious wrinkles, IDK.
spread fingers and push palm firmly to cloth and try push palm sideways too. Dry weather it should not move almost at all.
If cloth moves under your palm it is too loose. Damp weather cloth absorbs water and can move a little. It will tighten back when cloth dries up.
If cloth moves under your palm it is too loose. Damp weather cloth absorbs water and can move a little. It will tighten back when cloth dries up.
If you have same cloth , approx same age, same humidity conditions then it is almost always a cushion issue. I experienced this on both home tables that I once owned - the cue room cushions rebound faster
Thanks. Did you replace the cushions?
smiling_Hans
Well-known member
Put your hand and press on it. Try pushing it back and forth and see if it moves.
It's easy to measure the speed of the cloth separate from the cushions.
Shoot a good lag shot. With a stopwatch, time the travel of the cue ball from the far cushion to where it comes to a stop (without hitting the second cushion). Square that time and multiply by 2. That gives you the speed of the cloth.
Example: The ball takes 7.1 seconds for the last leg of a nearly perfect lag. Square that to get 50.41 (or 50). Multiply by 2 to get 100.
That's the speed of the cloth. This number actually gives you the equivalent up-hill slope of the cloth, so a speed of 100 means the cloth acts as if it had a 1% uphill slope. Slow cloth is around 70. Fast cloth is 130. Carom cloth is up around 200.
Speed = 2.0 * time * time
This is for a 9-foot table, where the travel is about 100 inches. If the lag is short or the table is a different size, you have to divide your result by fractional difference. Suppose in the above example the cue ball stops 10 inches short of the rail. It only travelled 90 inches (or so). Divide your answer by 0.9 to get a speed of 111 instead of 100. On an 8-foot table, the max travel is a little under 90 inches. Just use a multiplier in the formula of 2.2 instead of 2. Use 1.8 on a carom table.
If you measure your cloth speed, please let us know.
Shoot a good lag shot. With a stopwatch, time the travel of the cue ball from the far cushion to where it comes to a stop (without hitting the second cushion). Square that time and multiply by 2. That gives you the speed of the cloth.
Example: The ball takes 7.1 seconds for the last leg of a nearly perfect lag. Square that to get 50.41 (or 50). Multiply by 2 to get 100.
That's the speed of the cloth. This number actually gives you the equivalent up-hill slope of the cloth, so a speed of 100 means the cloth acts as if it had a 1% uphill slope. Slow cloth is around 70. Fast cloth is 130. Carom cloth is up around 200.
Speed = 2.0 * time * time
This is for a 9-foot table, where the travel is about 100 inches. If the lag is short or the table is a different size, you have to divide your result by fractional difference. Suppose in the above example the cue ball stops 10 inches short of the rail. It only travelled 90 inches (or so). Divide your answer by 0.9 to get a speed of 111 instead of 100. On an 8-foot table, the max travel is a little under 90 inches. Just use a multiplier in the formula of 2.2 instead of 2. Use 1.8 on a carom table.
If you measure your cloth speed, please let us know.
If I do this, the cloth does move. It kind feels like if my palm was a boat and when I move it right or left, there very very tiny waves in the water. (If this makes any sense to anyone)
Yep. Just went to another table and a way different result when running my hand back and force with a little pressure. My table cloth is definitely too loose.
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Which brings me to another question which I might want to post in a new thread but I will try here first...
When the installer installed the cloth he mentioned that the cloth I provided him was too short for the 7 foot diamond I have. Though, I ordered from seyberts the 7 ft Simonis 860HR. He was able to put the cloth on, but I am wondering in hindsight even though he got the cloth on and from the amateur eye looked fine, he wasn't able to stretch out the cloth properly because the cloth was too short?
Any thoughts on this?
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Which brings me to another question which I might want to post in a new thread but I will try here first...
When the installer installed the cloth he mentioned that the cloth I provided him was too short for the 7 foot diamond I have. Though, I ordered from seyberts the 7 ft Simonis 860HR. He was able to put the cloth on, but I am wondering in hindsight even though he got the cloth on and from the amateur eye looked fine, he wasn't able to stretch out the cloth properly because the cloth was too short?
Any thoughts on this?
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Yes. loose cloth=slow table
How good is your mechanic?
I think 2 options.
1. Either he used mediocre glue that cannot keep cloth properly stretched.
2. Or he pulled it too tight sideways. Then cloth doesn't stretch enough to another direction.
I got lost in Quadratics, but I have a feeling you made it through that Algebra class no problem...lol
Thanks. Do you think him thinking the cloth I provided for him was too short might have caused him to do a bad job? I would like to know if I should buy cloth for an 8 ft table or reuse the existing 7 ft cloth?
you need to compare to a place where you think the tables rolls the correct speed. other wise you will never know.
first get a turtle and time his trip from one end to the other. then take him(or her) to the pool room and time him for that. the percent difference in time for the faster trip is how much faster that trip was to your turtle on your table.
and use the ratio of the time by the distance cubed traveled. use real time and not turtle time, and i shouldn't have to tell you that but some people are dense.
if you want more exact and precise data do either multiple runs making sure the turtle has not eaten in between as that will alter the precision of your data.
or try it with a slinky and elevate each of the two tables to a 30 degree slope which you can approximate using the peace sign. and do your timing on those. but careful to not go over 32 degrees slope. co- incidentally that is the freezing point point of water. which should not concern you in this experiment. unless you are canadian. then i cant help you eh.
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so you dont get confused with this, male turtles have their bottom shell flat and female turtles are in dented. which seems it should be the other way around but it isn't so don't get confused. write it down if you have a short attention span which many pool players are afflicted with.
first get a turtle and time his trip from one end to the other. then take him(or her) to the pool room and time him for that. the percent difference in time for the faster trip is how much faster that trip was to your turtle on your table.
and use the ratio of the time by the distance cubed traveled. use real time and not turtle time, and i shouldn't have to tell you that but some people are dense.
if you want more exact and precise data do either multiple runs making sure the turtle has not eaten in between as that will alter the precision of your data.
or try it with a slinky and elevate each of the two tables to a 30 degree slope which you can approximate using the peace sign. and do your timing on those. but careful to not go over 32 degrees slope. co- incidentally that is the freezing point point of water. which should not concern you in this experiment. unless you are canadian. then i cant help you eh.
edit:
so you dont get confused with this, male turtles have their bottom shell flat and female turtles are in dented. which seems it should be the other way around but it isn't so don't get confused. write it down if you have a short attention span which many pool players are afflicted with.
Wasn't there a ramp someone did to try to standardize a table speed rating? So we all are using the same speed when comparing. Some incline, release a ball and have it roll toeasure. I remember a thread about that a while ago.
He said the cloth was short? That doesn't make sense. Did he draw lines and stretch to an index? Staples or glue?
Either way, the cloth is obviously lose if you can move it with your hand. A capable mechanic should be able to re-stretch it if he didn't make too big of a mess of it.
Yea...that's what he said. Like I said I bought Simonis 860HR for a 7 ft Diamond table from Seyberts. As far as the 'how' details, I am uninformed.
Yes, I will just get someone else to stretch it (company I had is not even in business anymore).
I just wanted verify that there isn't something weird in which a cloth being sold for 7 ft tables is too short for a Diamond barbox. I'm assuming now the installer was not up to snuff and maybe misspoke.
Thanks for the reply.
You can do a pool "stimp meter" but you have to agree to a standard slope and height. My method only requires that we agree to what a second of time is and how to measure inches if the lag isn't quite the right length. And it works on very fast and very slow cloth. Most people have a stop watch app in their phones.
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I've been told that a lot of installers don't know that they have to stretch Simonis very tight.
Related to the cloth being too short... I was watching a top mechanic installing carom Simonis on a 10-foot table. He was pulling it really tight like he's supposed to and a strip an inch or two wide tore off the side. He solved the missing cloth by spraying water on the cloth which helped it stretch enough that it still fit. This happened on two tables and the guess was the cloth had been in storage for too long. The tables played fine after the cloth dried out.