How I won an 8-ball game using unconventional tactics

Billy_Bob

Billy_Bob

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Warning! Do not do any of the stuff below in a "bar rules" game as it may not be good for your health.

The following was an interesting game of 8-ball (BCA rules). I won by using patience and unusual tactics...

I had a clustered 1 ball in the corner which I could not break out. So I ran in all my balls except the clustered 1 ball. (My opponent had 5 balls left on the table, I had the 1 and then the 8 to shoot, I still had the table.)
The table looked like this...

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/

START(
%AF3E1%HD3T1%J`7F7%KM9X6%Lo4F6%Mo9X3%NG5D9%P]3O3

)END

At this point (with my 1 and 8 to shoot and still my turn), I picked up the cue ball and handed it to my opponent.

He looked at me and said; "What in the heck are you doing?" I said I am giving you ball-in-hand. He looked quite happy and shot in a few of his balls, then missed a shot. Then I gave him ball in hand again. He said "I know you are up to something otherwise you would not be doing this!".

Then he decided to intentionally miss his next shot and turned over the table to me. Then I shot *his* ball in and gave him ball in hand.

Next he intentionally missed his shot and my turn again. I shot *his* remaining open ball into a pocket (clustered ball still on table) giving him ball-in-hand. Then the table looked like this...

START(
%AF3E1%HD3T1%NG5D9%Pa2F6

)END

Next he gave me ball-in-hand deciding he would be better off not shooting the cluster. So with ball-in hand (and all of his other balls now off the table), I set the cue ball as shown here...

START(
%AF3E1%HD3T1%NG5D9%PD2E3

)END

I then lightly hit my one ball which froze the cue ball to the one ball and sent his ball up table to hit a rail and be a legal shot. Then he was snookered. He missed his kick shot giving me ball-in-hand. Then I shot in the 1 with stun, then the 8 to win. I thought this was a fun game (we were playing for fun), however my friend looked like someone clubbed him over the head! He was not pleased.
 
Last edited:
Billy_Bob said:
Warning! Do not do any of the stuff below in a "bar rules" game as it may not be good for your health.

The following was an interesting game of 8-ball (BCA rules). I won by using patience and unusual tactics...

I had a clustered 1 ball in the corner which I could not break out. So I ran in all my balls except the clustered 1 ball. (My opponent had 5 balls left on the table, I had the 1 and then the 8 to shoot, I still had the table.)
The table looked like this...

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/

START(
%AF3E1%HD3T1%J`7F7%KM9X6%Lo4F6%Mo9X3%NG5D9%P]3O3

)END

At this point (with my 1 and 8 to shoot and still my turn), I picked up the cue ball and handed it to my opponent.

He looked at me and said; "What in the heck are you doing?" I said I am giving you ball-in-hand. He looked quite happy and shot in a few of his balls, then missed a shot. Then I gave him ball in hand again. He said "I know you are up to something otherwise you would not be doing this!".

Then he decided to intentionally miss his next shot and turned over the table to me. Then I shot *his* ball in and gave him ball in hand.

Next he intentionally missed his shot and my turn again. I shot *his* remaining open ball into a pocket (clustered ball still on table) giving him ball-in-hand. Then the table looked like this...

START(
%AF3E1%HD3T1%NG5D9%Pa2F6

)END

Next he gave me ball-in-hand deciding he would be better off not shooting the cluster. So with ball-in hand (and all of his other balls now off the table), I set the cue ball as shown here...

START(
%AF3E1%HD3T1%NG5D9%PD2E3

)END

I then lightly hit my one ball which froze the cue ball to the one ball and sent his ball up table to hit a rail and be a legal shot. Then he was snookered. He missed his kick shot giving me ball-in-hand. Then I shot in the 1 with stun, then the 8 to win. I thought this was a fun game (we were playing for fun), however my friend looked like someone clubbed him over the head! He was not pleased.
Click to expand...


You should have lost the game, your friend just didn't know what to do but could have beat you pretty easy.
 
He will

go away, and think about that game for some time. Probably get a few
pointers from someone else, then come back and want to play you again ....lol
 
I agree... funny if you are playing someone that cant really runout, but you should have been punished imho right away if you pulled this on someone better.

Although sometimes yes unorthodox plays are good, in this instance with BIH he could have broken up the cluster and gotten BIH most likely from you and then had an easy runout.
 
yeah he should have done the same thing to you with his ball in hand and snookering you on his 14. Guess he cannot run out either. Could have used the 11 for a break out ball and had two other balls in the upper corners to use as insurance balls to run the rack.
 
I've done something similar to this before but I didn't run all my balls first because that's typically suicide.
 
Sounds like you committed a foul. A player is not allowed to just pick up the cue ball. I think it falls into Unsportsmanlike Conduct.
 
randyg said:
Sounds like you committed a foul. A player is not allowed to just pick up the cue ball. I think it falls into Unsportsmanlike Conduct.
Click to expand...
Not in APA.

Still wasnt a very smart tactic. If his table looked like that, he had many oppurtunities with ball in hand I might add to break that cluster up run out on you.

The lower skill levels on my team seem to think that giving your opponent ball in hand intentionally will mess with their head and help you out. There are very few occasions where I would do this, the however is definately not one of them.
 
D Players Should Not Give Advice!!!!

Billy_Bob said:
Warning! Do not do any of the stuff below in a "bar rules" game as it may not be good for your health.

The following was an interesting game of 8-ball (BCA rules). I won by using patience and unusual tactics...

I had a clustered 1 ball in the corner which I could not break out. So I ran in all my balls except the clustered 1 ball. (My opponent had 5 balls left on the table, I had the 1 and then the 8 to shoot, I still had the table.)
The table looked like this...

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/

START(
%AF3E1%HD3T1%J`7F7%KM9X6%Lo4F6%Mo9X3%NG5D9%P]3O3

)END

At this point (with my 1 and 8 to shoot and still my turn), I picked up the cue ball and handed it to my opponent.

He looked at me and said; "What in the heck are you doing?" I said I am giving you ball-in-hand. He looked quite happy and shot in a few of his balls, then missed a shot. Then I gave him ball in hand again. He said "I know you are up to something otherwise you would not be doing this!".

Then he decided to intentionally miss his next shot and turned over the table to me. Then I shot *his* ball in and gave him ball in hand.

Next he intentionally missed his shot and my turn again. I shot *his* remaining open ball into a pocket (clustered ball still on table) giving him ball-in-hand. Then the table looked like this...

START(
%AF3E1%HD3T1%NG5D9%Pa2F6

)END

Next he gave me ball-in-hand deciding he would be better off not shooting the cluster. So with ball-in hand (and all of his other balls now off the table), I set the cue ball as shown here...

START(
%AF3E1%HD3T1%NG5D9%PD2E3

)END

I then lightly hit my one ball which froze the cue ball to the one ball and sent his ball up table to hit a rail and be a legal shot. Then he was snookered. He missed his kick shot giving me ball-in-hand. Then I shot in the 1 with stun, then the 8 to win. I thought this was a fun game (we were playing for fun), however my friend looked like someone clubbed him over the head! He was not pleased.
Click to expand...

D PLAYERS SHOULD NOT GIVE ADVICE, U R STILL LEARNING BASIC STUFF!

Brian
 
APA7 said:
D PLAYERS SHOULD NOT GIVE ADVICE, U R STILL LEARNING BASIC STUFF!

Brian
Click to expand...

I thought I was a D player until I read this!

No offense, but if I may say, most have a problem with this post because we like to discuss tactics that may be used to overcome real shooters, the kind that can run out a relatively open table without much of a problem.

Most of the guys I shoot would be able to easily diagnose the problem balls, find solutions for them, and run out. Giving them ball in hand would make all too easy for them.
 
Last edited:
Billy_Bob said:
Warning! Do not do any of the stuff below in a "bar rules" game as it may not be good for your health.

The following was an interesting game of 8-ball (BCA rules). I won by using patience and unusual tactics...

I had a clustered 1 ball in the corner which I could not break out. So I ran in all my balls except the clustered 1 ball. (My opponent had 5 balls left on the table, I had the 1 and then the 8 to shoot, I still had the table.)
The table looked like this...

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/

START(
%AF3E1%HD3T1%J`7F7%KM9X6%Lo4F6%Mo9X3%NG5D9%P]3O3

)END

At this point (with my 1 and 8 to shoot and still my turn), I picked up the cue ball and handed it to my opponent.

He looked at me and said; "What in the heck are you doing?" I said I am giving you ball-in-hand. He looked quite happy and shot in a few of his balls, then missed a shot. Then I gave him ball in hand again. He said "I know you are up to something otherwise you would not be doing this!".

Then he decided to intentionally miss his next shot and turned over the table to me. Then I shot *his* ball in and gave him ball in hand.

Next he intentionally missed his shot and my turn again. I shot *his* remaining open ball into a pocket (clustered ball still on table) giving him ball-in-hand. Then the table looked like this...

START(
%AF3E1%HD3T1%NG5D9%Pa2F6

)END

Next he gave me ball-in-hand deciding he would be better off not shooting the cluster. So with ball-in hand (and all of his other balls now off the table), I set the cue ball as shown here...

START(
%AF3E1%HD3T1%NG5D9%PD2E3

)END

I then lightly hit my one ball which froze the cue ball to the one ball and sent his ball up table to hit a rail and be a legal shot. Then he was snookered. He missed his kick shot giving me ball-in-hand. Then I shot in the 1 with stun, then the 8 to win. I thought this was a fun game (we were playing for fun), however my friend looked like someone clubbed him over the head! He was not pleased.
Click to expand...



To try to make something constructive out of this Billy.

If you don't think you can run out because of a cluster, the very last thing you would do is run off all your balls. The very first time you gave me ball in hand in this situation I'm going to reverse your safe on you. Then after you miss the ball I'll run out on you.

I'm not saying that I've never picked up the cue ball before shooting, handed it to my opponent and said " show me". I don't remember what the situation was but it was much more complicated than this.

Now if you ran your balls intending to break this out and didn't get it done, that is different. Might try something like this ending up with a very good safe.

START(
%AF8D8%HD3T1%J`7F7%KM9X6%Lo4F6%Mo9X3%NK5C8%PE5D8%WD4F7%X[7N6

)END


At least your thinking out of the box. You managed a win with incorrect thinking this time so consider yourself lucky and learn from it.
 
Billy_Bob said:
Warning! Do not do any of the stuff below in a "bar rules" game as it may not be good for your health.

The following was an interesting game of 8-ball (BCA rules). I won by using patience and unusual tactics...

I had a clustered 1 ball in the corner which I could not break out. So I ran in all my balls except the clustered 1 ball. (My opponent had 5 balls left on the table, I had the 1 and then the 8 to shoot, I still had the table.)
The table looked like this...

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/

START(
%AF3E1%HD3T1%J`7F7%KM9X6%Lo4F6%Mo9X3%NG5D9%P]3O3

)END

At this point (with my 1 and 8 to shoot and still my turn), I picked up the cue ball and handed it to my opponent.

He looked at me and said; "What in the heck are you doing?" I said I am giving you ball-in-hand. He looked quite happy and shot in a few of his balls, then missed a shot. Then I gave him ball in hand again. He said "I know you are up to something otherwise you would not be doing this!".

Then he decided to intentionally miss his next shot and turned over the table to me. Then I shot *his* ball in and gave him ball in hand.

Next he intentionally missed his shot and my turn again. I shot *his* remaining open ball into a pocket (clustered ball still on table) giving him ball-in-hand. Then the table looked like this...

START(
%AF3E1%HD3T1%NG5D9%Pa2F6

)END

Next he gave me ball-in-hand deciding he would be better off not shooting the cluster. So with ball-in hand (and all of his other balls now off the table), I set the cue ball as shown here...

START(
%AF3E1%HD3T1%NG5D9%PD2E3

)END

I then lightly hit my one ball which froze the cue ball to the one ball and sent his ball up table to hit a rail and be a legal shot. Then he was snookered. He missed his kick shot giving me ball-in-hand. Then I shot in the 1 with stun, then the 8 to win. I thought this was a fun game (we were playing for fun), however my friend looked like someone clubbed him over the head! He was not pleased.
Click to expand...

You sure wouldn't have gotten away with that playing with me. my first shot with ball in hand would have been to play a safety on you that would look something like this:
START(
%AD3E2%HD3T1%J`7F7%KM9X6%Lo4F6%Mo9X3%NG5D9%PI0D2

)END

I nice little tap would accomlish this and you would have a really tough kick. meanwhile I'd be waiting to run you out.
 
CaptainJR said:
To try to make something constructive out of this Billy.

If you don't think you can run out because of a cluster, the very last thing you would do is run off all your balls. The very first time you gave me ball in hand in this situation I'm going to reverse your safe on you. Then after you miss the ball I'll run out on you.

I'm not saying that I've never picked up the cue ball before shooting, handed it to my opponent and said " show me". I don't remember what the situation was but it was much more complicated than this.

Now if you ran your balls intending to break this out and didn't get it done, that is different. Might try something like this ending up with a very good safe.

START(
%AF8D8%HD3T1%J`7F7%KM9X6%Lo4F6%Mo9X3%NK5C8%PE5D8%WD4F7%X[7N6

)END


At least your thinking out of the box. You managed a win with incorrect thinking this time so consider yourself lucky and learn from it.
Click to expand...


Captain, I like your style. I can't agree with you more in this instance. There's no need to criticize the original posting any further. The point now is to come up with a strategy that might yield victory even against more experienced 8-ballers.

I've found myself in this situation on more than one occasion and sometimes, I manage to squeak out a win. My immediate objective the moment I find myself in this circumstance is to go right after the 8-ball. I look for a pocket that my opponent direly needs to run out and I try to park the 8-ball there. You really have to look at it as an "in-case-of-emergency" strategy where you start shooting the 8-ball around, using it as a blocker but you'd be surprised how much you can delay your opponent's win and all you sometimes need is one poor mistake.
 
Billy_Bob said:
Warning! Do not do any of the stuff below in a "bar rules" game as it may not be good for your health.

The following was an interesting game of 8-ball (BCA rules). I won by using patience and unusual tactics...

I had a clustered 1 ball in the corner which I could not break out. So I ran in all my balls except the clustered 1 ball. (My opponent had 5 balls left on the table, I had the 1 and then the 8 to shoot, I still had the table.)
The table looked like this...

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/

START(
%AF3E1%HD3T1%J`7F7%KM9X6%Lo4F6%Mo9X3%NG5D9%P]3O3

)END

At this point (with my 1 and 8 to shoot and still my turn), I picked up the cue ball and handed it to my opponent.
[...snip...]
Click to expand...
I'm going to break with the crowd here and say you showed some imagination here. I try to get my 4's and 5's to think along these lines, and some get it and some don't. You seem to be in the process of getting it, so good for you.

That said, there's some logic in the posts of people here who disagreed with your moves. While this was a good move against APA 2-5 (not all 5s), it will back fire on you against better players. They'll find a way to get out with BIH, safe you immediately by freezing you on the 14, or work a ball or two down to the cluster -- for example, a 2-rail shot on the 12.

In any case, this was a step in the right strategic direction. Next time, make sure you anticipate your opponent's counter-moves, the likelihood of them playing such moves, and how stuck you will be. Over time you'll get a better and better idea of when unorthodox moves like giving up BIH, rolling the 8 onto their ball,... are a good idea (it will depend a lot on your opponent).

Also, in most situations where you're considering handing the cue ball to your opponent, it's probably better to instead try to worsen their position in the process of giving up BIH. E.g. From the initial position you diagrammed, you could give him BIH by hitting directly into his 13, moving it away from the pocket.

Cory
 
Billy_Bob said:
At this point (with my 1 and 8 to shoot and still my turn), I picked up the cue ball and handed it to my opponent.
Click to expand...

Others have made some good suggestions. Here are some other thoughts.

An intentional foul is a good idea. But there's almost always something else you can accomplish while you're giving up ball in hand.

In general, these include

1. fix one or more of your own problems
2. create a new problem for your opponent.
3. pocket one of your opponent's balls, giving him less flexibility
4. knock your opponent's key ball(s) away from the problems (i.e., if he has a free ball close to a cluster, pocket it or knock it to the other end of the table.
5. tie up the 8-ball

In this case, I think the best play is to knock the 11-ball to the bottom rail next to the 8-ball, giving up ball in hand.

START(
%AF3E1%HD3T1%J`7F7%KN4X9%Lo4F6%Mo9X3%NG5D9%P]3O3%QC0T6%WK6[0
%XM6Y4%]E2V7%^J2[1
)END

mike page
fargo
 
Lots of good advice, thanks!

Actually I have tried giving ball-in-hand to a very good player and it backfired. The first thing he did was line up a shot to make his ball and also break out the cluster.

Also another time I tried shooting my opponent's breakout ball away from a cluster which gave him ball-in-hand, but I didn't shoot it far enough away. He was still able to shoot in his ball and break out the cluster.

So correct, this does not work when playing a good player.

But the guy I was playing was a not so good player and I learned I could get away with this stuff (this time).

Anyway I like to experiment with different things and see what happens. When I experiment like this, I learn good things to do as well as things which are not such a good idea.

I like the idea of moving the 8 ball into a spot to block a pocket.
 
Billy_Bob said:
Lots of good advice, thanks!

Actually I have tried giving ball-in-hand to a very good player and it backfired. The first thing he did was line up a shot to make his ball and also break out the cluster.

Also another time I tried shooting my opponent's breakout ball away from a cluster which gave him ball-in-hand, but I didn't shoot it far enough away. He was still able to shoot in his ball and break out the cluster.

So correct, this does not work when playing a good player.

But the guy I was playing was a not so good player and I learned I could get away with this stuff (this time).

Anyway I like to experiment with different things and see what happens. When I experiment like this, I learn good things to do as well as things which are not such a good idea.

I like the idea of moving the 8 ball into a spot to block a pocket.
Click to expand...


There is an interesting point you make. Eight-ball, unlike nine-ball, is a very subjective game. There are strategies that can be employed against certain skill-levels. In nine-ball, there is typically an agreed "correct shot". In eight-ball, that isn't always the case. There are certain risks that you may take against better opponents than you would against weaker ones. Although your scenario is a more extreme example of this ideology, the fact still remains. You should take your opponent's ability into consideration when faced with difficult circumstances.
 
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