How much difference in feedback will a Supersoft/Soft tip compared to Medium/Hard tip
- Thread starter Jerry OC
- Start date
I do the exact opposite, I'll flatten out edges even more.
Over a decade ago, I was using Kamui Black medium tips. I became annoyed by having to scuff the tip constantly from
glazing. It was really bothersome and when I didn’t do it, miscues would start to occur. By coincidence, I was chatting
with Tom (Shooter08) and I happened to complain about this issue with Kamui. I did not know his billiard supply store
was a licensed Kamui dealer. He suggested that I try the newer Kamui Black Clear tips but with a different hardness.
Shooter08 recommended trying Kamui Black Clear in a super soft or soft hardness. In his experience, this new version
was less susceptible to glazing. I asked about getting original Moori brown tips in medium but at that time, there wasn’t
any to be found anywhere. That tip is on my Prewitt cue and I liked how it plays but since it wasn’t available, I choose
the Kamui Black Clear and ordered a soft and super soft tip from Shooter08. With the exception of my Prewitt and Runde Schon cues, all my other customs now use Kamui Black Clear in a soft and super soft hardness. I really liked Kamui so my cues have 2 shafts & a couple have 3 shafts. That’s a of a lot of Kamui Black Clear soft tips that I rate as a thumbs up.
glazing. It was really bothersome and when I didn’t do it, miscues would start to occur. By coincidence, I was chatting
with Tom (Shooter08) and I happened to complain about this issue with Kamui. I did not know his billiard supply store
was a licensed Kamui dealer. He suggested that I try the newer Kamui Black Clear tips but with a different hardness.
Shooter08 recommended trying Kamui Black Clear in a super soft or soft hardness. In his experience, this new version
was less susceptible to glazing. I asked about getting original Moori brown tips in medium but at that time, there wasn’t
any to be found anywhere. That tip is on my Prewitt cue and I liked how it plays but since it wasn’t available, I choose
the Kamui Black Clear and ordered a soft and super soft tip from Shooter08. With the exception of my Prewitt and Runde Schon cues, all my other customs now use Kamui Black Clear in a soft and super soft hardness. I really liked Kamui so my cues have 2 shafts & a couple have 3 shafts. That’s a of a lot of Kamui Black Clear soft tips that I rate as a thumbs up.
I think players miscue mainly from not chalking correctly but also from their choice of English by striking the top, bottom and sides of the cue ball too low, high or skinny. IMO, it occurs often with players that use a thinner diameter shafts. As a general observation, players using 13 mm shafts do it as well but generally not nearly as often that I’ve seen down through the years. A 1/2 tip of English from center ball will throw the object ball quite a bit at the right speed and a full tip is more than ample for most shots. Anyway, I think some players try to be too creative trying for ideal position on the next OB shot to run the table.
Too many players attempt shots that are challenging because they got lousy shape. Their egos don’t let them play safeties when they should consider it and instead attempt a shot requiring extreme English to pocket and recapture better shape to run the table. There is little doubt pool players strike the ball differently and the tip is a very critical factor in how you play.
Last edited:
Great idea unless you are limited in experience. Proper tools and technique are imperative for success. That's all the advice I can share.
And this harder leather tip will make you miscue if you ever tried playing with it.
If there is a leather tip that’s “too hard” so it can’t be played with without miscue than logic serves that the hardness of the tip does affect playability.
Bring the hardness of the samsara down 1%…is it playable now?
How about 1 percent lower than that?
Keep on going down in 1 percent increments until you have what you feel is the maximum hardness level that is playable…now don’t you think that tip is going to miscue more than a soft tip?? The answer is obviously yes. Just like if a tip is too soft it will have its own set of all kinds of performance issues.
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
Personally I'd rather miscue. This tells me more than if I hadn't miscued and grooved in poor fundamentals or stroke. A hard tip tells no lies, and I much prefer it that way. I've also found with a hard tip I tend to default closer to the center but stroke better which results in better spin anyway. A soft tip lets you get by with so much you may never learn to stroke a ball purely. Or not, different strokes for different folks, but this is my thoughts to myself on the matter.
I play with a hard tip and will put all sorts of shit on it if needed, but I know I must do so deliberately. I can go for 6 months without miscuing. If I have 1 miscue I focus, if it happens 2 or 3 times a night, then I know my stroke is off (usually due to back issues) and it's back to fundamentals training, stretching and working out my back. If I had a soft tip, I'd probably just go through life wondering why the CB acted so funny and never give it another thought.
A hard tip keeps you on a short leash, and IMHO this is a good thing, you can't stray far enough from fundamentals to get lost. Also I like the sound and feel when you stroke good with a hard tip. It's like a little Pavlovian bell for a job well done. Those soft tips just feel like mush to me. No feedback.
I realize it's all preference, this is just my personal thoughts on it, it's neither right or wrong, just preference.
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
Would you rather take a corner at 90mph in a car with tuned/harder suspension or in a car with floaty suspension? To me it feels the same. A soft tip feels deader to me. The hard tip feels better. One can play with either type but I like the immediate feedback in my grip hand. I don't want deadened feel, it's the same reason I don't like whippy shafts.
The main feedback (other than visual) you get on a pool cue is the sound and vibrations in your grip hand. Would anyone smear their glasses or eyeballs with vaseline for a softer look? Why soften/deaden the feedback?
I bet SVB could beat anyone on this forum with his break cue.
Different strokes for different folks. We could all give edge case scenarios like using a phenolic tip or taping a mini marshmallow onto a cue as a tip but the truth is if you're using a tip, hard, medium, or soft, it's within the skill level of even an APA 3 to use. If anything I'd rather give them a hard tip so they can get past the miscues by improving their fundamentals.
There are preferences no doubt, but they are just that. If you think a soft tip will save you on the money shot if you were to accidentally miscue, it's not the tip and you probably won't win much if using a soft tip to cover an error as glaring as miscuing. I get it can give confidence, I used to think the same thing when using the original Kamui chalk, but at the end of the day it was all in my head and I'm ok with knowing that.
stewie
Active member
For 40 bucks you get ten ultraskins to test. I did that and settled on soft. I started with medium, soft, very soft,.... I was missing more shots with very soft and then saw Scott Frost on a what's in the bag segment on Karl Boyes' channel where he admitted he is nuts about tips, but said changing a tip changes deflection. I went to soft and never looked back.
To every player, I believe, there's still a "rule of thumb" comparing S/M/H tips on average...
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
My rule of thumb is, soft=junk, medium=ok until a tip change, hard=great. I'm guessing many people disagree. It really is a preference thing and I feel you can't really know until you try them all. As a default I'd probably recommend a medium since it's in the middle.
I will believe what years of experience of playing, experimenting, and watching others have taught me. Pool isn’t played in a sterile lab of theoretical equations and slow motion tests…it’s played by humans on real tables and often for money.
The hard vs soft tip and the benefits/drawbacks of both is settled science to me at this point. I’ve seen enough, tinkered enough, and talk to so many players 600-770 FR about this subject that its not even something i really even consider debatable at this point. But here we are. I just wanted to answer this guy’s question on the difference In feedback and feel for both since no one was directly answering him. I didn’t realize I’d get questioned by a couple of 500 fargo’s who can’t play a lick.
There’s a reason someone above mentioned Scott Frost’s name about him being obsessed with tips and how different ones cause different “deflections”. It’s not deflection that the tip’s hardness is causing but i see why he calls it that because you have to compensate all the same…Scott (a professional player and 750 Fargorate) is feeling the exact phenomenon I’m talking about with the difference in english grab on different tip hardness and compensating accordingly.
DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
No part of a cue has ever told me if I made the ball or got shape, so what is this thing everyone calls 'feedback' really useful for?
What people are always, always, always referring to when they talk about 'feedback' in a cue is simply feel of the cue, basically whether it is 'pleasant' to them.
Let me ask this, tho:
If you were given a cue that would guarantee that you would miss 1/10th of the shots you miss now, you'd want that cue. Would you still want it if it played 'la macarena' and give you a small electric shock every time you hit a ball?
What people are always, always, always referring to when they talk about 'feedback' in a cue is simply feel of the cue, basically whether it is 'pleasant' to them.
Let me ask this, tho:
If you were given a cue that would guarantee that you would miss 1/10th of the shots you miss now, you'd want that cue. Would you still want it if it played 'la macarena' and give you a small electric shock every time you hit a ball?
First part of the question: Yes, feedback=does it feel like you have a marshmallow glued to the end of your cue or do you get a pleasant "ping" type sound when you strike the cue ball.
I would pass on the cue if it played "La Macarena" or felt like it had a marshmallow glued to the end even if I missed 50% less than I do now.