How much warp is "natural"

K

kingwang

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
How much warp is "natural" for a shaft? Since wood is imperfect, every shaft has to have some slight amount of deviation from perfect. I was wondering if I should be able to see a slight change in a "straight shaft"?

The reason I ask is that both my Fury J/B and my Z shaft have developed very very slight rolls. If I roll them on a table, I can't tell from the top, but if I look under the shaft at the little opening between the shaft and the table I can see it undulate slightly (<1 mm). Is this something to be worried about and should I claim warranty on it? I know it doesn't affect my performance at all, but I'm still wondering if I should send them in on warranty. Both cues are very new...in fact I've only had the Fury for a few hours.
 
Shafts

I don't think there is a natural warp. I may be mistaken, but mine don't warp and I don't want one that does. I have three shafts for my cue, have had them for 7 years now and they haven't warped.--Smitty
 
By developed, you did this before and they were straight or is this the 1st time you tried. Maybe the pin is a bit off center if both are doing it. Try rolling them without the butt. They should not, especially the Predator which has pretty high quality control, be that noticable.
 
zero, i have some 30-40 year old Szams and Bushkas that are perfect, i mean 100% perfect.
 
I'm not positive on this, but I remember hearing something along the lines of how dry or cured the wood is. My guess is that if the wood in the shaft isn't dried well enough, the moisture inside the shaft will eventually warp it. Please correct me if I'm wrong, this interests me.
 
Here's a link to a site where one person built a contraption to test how straight various shafts were. If you read further down, he goes into an in depth discussion of his attempts to straighten warped shafts. With all the measurements I thought maybe Koehler wrote this article.

If you want a good laugh, read his post further up on the same page entitled "My Meucci Nightmare."

http://www.waynesthisandthat.com/billiards.htm#straight
 
The predator rolled 100% straight when I first got it and I forgot to check the Fury J/B until after I played with it for a few hours (like jumping and breaking and stuff).

The main problem is that I didn't notice the warp at all until I looked under the cue because it was so slight. From above I can't tell...but since they are pro tapered, there is a space between the shaft and the felt and I could tell that that space was fluctuating by <1mm

Do you guys thinking this is worth claiming warranty on?
 
"An easy-to-build shaft tester and 11 cue shafts compared for straightness

While rolling a cue on a table is the time honored way to test for straightness, it suffers from the weaknesses of the assumption that the table is flat and that rolling can only detect large warps. A much more sensitive test is to preform the same roll test but instead of looking down at the cue, look at it from a low angle with bright light shining down on the opposite side of the cue. Observe the thin line of light between the tabletop and the shaft. Because this wedge of light passes under the cue at a sharp angle and is reflected toward you by the table, the apparent width of the line of light is magnified. This magnification easily quadruples the appearance of any shaft warp, making it easier to spot. Again, this test is limited by how even the table is."

From http://www.waynesthisandthat.com/billiards.htm#straight

That is the method I was using to check for warpage
 
JoeyInCali said:
Notice why there are no cuemakers chiming in?
Trade secret. :)
Click to expand...


I have a leaky faucet and was wondering if some of your special cocobolo could be used to stop it before it turns into a squirt :p :D :D
 
kingwang said:
How much warp is "natural" for a shaft? Since wood is imperfect, every shaft has to have some slight amount of deviation from perfect. I was wondering if I should be able to see a slight change in a "straight shaft"?

The reason I ask is that both my Fury J/B and my Z shaft have developed very very slight rolls. If I roll them on a table, I can't tell from the top, but if I look under the shaft at the little opening between the shaft and the table I can see it undulate slightly (<1 mm). Is this something to be worried about and should I claim warranty on it? I know it doesn't affect my performance at all, but I'm still wondering if I should send them in on warranty. Both cues are very new...in fact I've only had the Fury for a few hours.
Click to expand...

There are two things you should remember. (1) the taper (2) that whatever the amount of warp you see, divide that in half. Let's assume you have a true shaft, no warp. If it warps 1/32", then as you roll the shaft on a flat surface the warp will go from +1/32 to -1/32 or the appearance of 1/16" deviation.

I think a cuemaker should answer your question.
 
My friends Z shaft is the same way he has not owned it long and it has a very slight curve when rolled.
 
LAlouie said:
.

I think a cuemaker should answer your question.
Click to expand...
1mm of warp is substantial.
He claims they are new, so they should be replaced.

The trade secret is how "warpage" is minimized.
Wood will move. It's wood.
 
Have you rolled the shafts by themselves (separated from the butts)? It's possible your joint pins are slightly bent, which can be corrected without returning them.

pj
chgo
 
you have to watch your tip as well, depending on the taper sometimes a misshaped tip will cause what looks like roll off too.

to me, anything thats new or near new should have no visible rolloff. I had a tiger shaft that was new, had the slightest of rolloffs and i contacted tony and he replaced it no questions. The rolloff itself wasnt bothering me, i was more worried about it getting worse since it was brand new.

Slight roll off on an older cue isnt what i want but its acceptable, i have an older schon i play with, both shafts roll off but i never noticed.

hey dont mean to hijack but can they take the insert out of an old shaft and put it into another? Im sure its doable but is there any problems with it ?
 
JoeyInCali said:
The trade secret is how "warpage" is minimized.
Wood will move. It's wood.
Click to expand...

I am not a cue maker but from what I understand the "Trade Secret" that your looking for is time... you season wood for several months... then first turn... then season for a few more months and turn again ect.. the more times its turned and the longer the period of time between turns the less warpage you have in the finished product...

Thats how it was explained to me.
 
I have tried rolling them separately and they still have that very slight roll.

Scottycoyote, I called Seyberts about putting a Predator shaft on a Fury and they offered to transfer the insert, but it required destroying the old shaft.
 
I'm actually in the process of replacing my entire set-up. I have a Predator P2 and a Lucasi Break/Jump and just recently, I realized both butts are warped. I did a little research and found that prior to doing ANYTHING with wood, it has to be dried so that the moisture is at or below 30%. This makes sense since we all have wood furniture and no matter what we do with it, that old wood chair maintains its shape.

My question is, I use a locker which keeps my cues flat (horizontal) and in a Porper case. By any chance, could this have any impact on its warping or can I assume that in both instances, the cue company is at fault? Are there any other common scenarios that could cause warping?
 
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