How they do that?

[FLICKit]

We've all seen Pool on ESPN and the likes... Just thought it might be interesting to get a better understanding of how things work...


Special Effects
How do they display the logo on top of the pool table - usually it's a casino logo? Is that just some very expensive, high powered projector? Do the lights still have to be dimmed to a certain level?

How do they overlay the graphical images of the pool balls on top of the real ones? Is there some special software package that it takes to do that? Is it similar to the software that they use to make the yellow stripe to mark the first downs in football?

What does it take to do a pocket cam? Any special tricks needed in order to keep it from interfering with the play of the game?


Rating Systems
What is the best rating system used to determine a player's ability? I've seen the AccuStats that they use for the pros, how does that one work? What factors are used to determine the rating? Does it require special equipment since the ratings adjust real time? Since pros are about 800-900, would an average player be about 400-450? Is the system used for anything other than pros?

What are other good rating systems - including leagues? Some simpletons will say NONE, of course, ignoring those. What do they base their handicaps on? How do they each work? Obviously, can't give specific details and formulas, but should be able to give general details i.e. balls made or missed, innings, balls left on table, games won....


Pro Events
What does it take to get a pro event in an area? Is it just some businessmen willing to invest the prize funds, or do the casinos pay it for the publicity, or is it basically done through ESPN? Is there some sort of schedule or circuit that the pool pros follow?


Miscellaneous
Suppose someone has an idea about some pool invention, any thoughts on steps needed to convert that idea into a real product - if feasible of course.


Looks like this has expanded beyond, just what's seen on ESPN. Just thought some discussion and answers might be interesting. Feel free to post any similar questions that you might have as well.

Any Positive responses would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Muxy]

I think the logo is computer edited.

 

[sjm]

We've all seen Pool on ESPN and the likes... Just thought it might be interesting to get a better understanding of how things work...


Special Effects
How do they display the logo on top of the pool table - usually it's a casino logo? Is that just some very expensive, high powered projector? Do the lights still have to be dimmed to a certain level?

Overhead projector, lights do not need to be dimmed.

How do they overlay the graphical images of the pool balls on top of the real ones? Is there some special software package that it takes to do that? Is it similar to the software that they use to make the yellow stripe to mark the first downs in football?

No idea.

What does it take to do a pocket cam? Any special tricks needed in order to keep it from interfering with the play of the game?

No idea.

Rating Systems
What is the best rating system used to determine a player's ability? I've seen the AccuStats that they use for the pros, how does that one work? What factors are used to determine the rating? Does it require special equipment since the ratings adjust real time? Since pros are about 800-900, would an average player be about 400-450? Is the system used for anything other than pros?

Accustats is good, and to simplify, it represents a players success ratio on his shots. I'd guess that "A" players shoot from 700-800, "B" players from 600-700, and average players, as you suggest probably between 400-600.

What are other good rating systems - including leagues? Some simpletons will say NONE, of course, ignoring those. What do they base their handicaps on? How do they each work? Obviously, can't give specific details and formulas, but should be able to give general details i.e. balls made or missed, innings, balls left on table, games won....

Decline comment. A lot of threads on ths subject.

Pro Events
What does it take to get a pro event in an area? Is it just some businessmen willing to invest the prize funds, or do the casinos pay it for the publicity, or is it basically done through ESPN? Is there some sort of schedule or circuit that the pool pros follow?

It generally takes funding from businesses inside or outside the pool industry. ESPN has not traditionally sponsored much pool.

Miscellaneous
Suppose someone has an idea about some pool invention, any thoughts on steps needed to convert that idea into a real product - if feasible of course.

No idea.

Looks like this has expanded beyond, just what's seen on ESPN. Just thought some discussion and answers might be interesting. Feel free to post any similar questions that you might have as well.

Any Positive responses would be appreciated.

Thanks

Well, I took a shot.

 

[jjinfla]

Special Effects
How do they display the logo on top of the pool table - usually it's a casino logo? Is that just some very expensive, high powered projector? Do the lights still have to be dimmed to a certain level?

Thanks

Most likely they use two cameras. One on the pool table and the other looks at a picture of the logo. The output of these camera are combined and it looks like the logo is on the table until it mysteriously disappears when the technician fades to black on that camera.

Same principle with the telestrator.

Jake

 

[sjm]

Most likely they use two cameras. One on the pool table and the other looks at a picture of the logo. The output of these camera are combined and it looks like the logo is on the table until it mysteriously disappears when the technician fades to black on that camera.

Same principle with the telestrator.

Jake

Mybe you're right, but I based my answer on how it was done at Mohegan Sun during the challenge of Champions. There, they had a powerful overhead projector that displayed their logo when turned on.

 

[DoomCue]

We've all seen Pool on ESPN and the likes... Just thought it might be interesting to get a better understanding of how things work...


Special Effects
How do they display the logo on top of the pool table - usually it's a casino logo? Is that just some very expensive, high powered projector? Do the lights still have to be dimmed to a certain level?

SJM is correct, it's just a projector.

How do they overlay the graphical images of the pool balls on top of the real ones? Is there some special software package that it takes to do that? Is it similar to the software that they use to make the yellow stripe to mark the first downs in football?

I don't think pool necessitates such technological innovation. The overlays are done during post production - some tech just manually puts images with readable numbers over the balls.

What does it take to do a pocket cam? Any special tricks needed in order to keep it from interfering with the play of the game?

Lipstick camera indented enough in the pocket not to interfere with the balls.

Rating Systems
What is the best rating system used to determine a player's ability? I've seen the AccuStats that they use for the pros, how does that one work? What factors are used to determine the rating? Does it require special equipment since the ratings adjust real time? Since pros are about 800-900, would an average player be about 400-450? Is the system used for anything other than pros?

I believe any missed ball which is deemed to be more difficult than a spot shot counts against you (so there is some subjectivity involved). You can download an actual AccuStats scoresheet (with instructions) here.

What are other good rating systems - including leagues? Some simpletons will say NONE, of course, ignoring those. What do they base their handicaps on? How do they each work? Obviously, can't give specific details and formulas, but should be able to give general details i.e. balls made or missed, innings, balls left on table, games won....

Guess I'm a simpleton, I think it's NONE.

Pro Events
What does it take to get a pro event in an area? Is it just some businessmen willing to invest the prize funds, or do the casinos pay it for the publicity, or is it basically done through ESPN? Is there some sort of schedule or circuit that the pool pros follow?

Money. ESPN doesn't do jack for pool - they're paid to show the tournaments. Anyone can have a tournament, and you can get sanctioned by the UPA and call it a pro event (there is a sanctioning fee involved).

Miscellaneous
Suppose someone has an idea about some pool invention, any thoughts on steps needed to convert that idea into a real product - if feasible of course.

File a patent with the USPTO (US Patent and Trademark Office), then market. Sounds easy - it ain't.

Looks like this has expanded beyond, just what's seen on ESPN. Just thought some discussion and answers might be interesting. Feel free to post any similar questions that you might have as well.

Any Positive responses would be appreciated.

Thanks

My $.02.

-djb

 

[FLICKit]

SJM is correct, it's just a projector.

I don't think pool necessitates such technological innovation. The overlays are done during post production - some tech just manually puts images with readable numbers over the balls.

Awww.... that's a bit anti-climatic, but makes sense. Bites when learning how to do something is like the experience when you first learn about Santa Claus.... Ooops... Don't wanna spoil that for any of ya... Won't give any details here.

Lipstick camera indented enough in the pocket not to interfere with the balls.

Sounds simple enough...

I believe any missed ball which is deemed to be more difficult than a spot shot counts against you (so there is some subjectivity involved). You can download an actual AccuStats scoresheet (with instructions) here.

Great link.... The scoring system is a bit more complicated than I anticipated. I'm sure it probably gets pretty easy after the first 100 times you do it.

Guess I'm a simpleton, I think it's NONE.

Ha ha.... headed you off at the pass.... Gotcha...
Things that make you go hmmmm..... How come there's always a pass? And how come the first guy never takes it first? I know I know... artistic liberties....

When two people are far enough apart in skills and ability, you gotta do something to make the game interesting and challenging somehow. Playing even the worst pro pool player straight up, doesn't sound like a fighting chance. Won't have a fighting chance, unless you do something to balance things out a bit, at least while you learn.

Even when amongst friends, its common to handicap in some sort of way, i.e. give the 8 or 7 ball, or have to win more games, or play opposite handed, or bank every shot...

I know, some of you staunch superstar players are firmly locked into your anti-handicapping systems. And I know that you'd have some jaded history to validate your point of view. Getting over that, the concept still remains the same, just like in bowling, if you have to have a handicapping system, what do you see as the best way to do it?

Money. ESPN doesn't do jack for pool - they're paid to show the tournaments. Anyone can have a tournament, and you can get sanctioned by the UPA and call it a pro event (there is a sanctioning fee involved).

Well, being on TV is at least a plus. I'm sure some ESPN employee had to bust his butt off to try to sell that pitch to the ESPN execs. It's nice to see the pool pros on TV.

File a patent with the USPTO (US Patent and Trademark Office), then market. Sounds easy - it ain't.

Doesn't sound too promising.

My $.02.
-djb

I'd give that a dime easy, which would be 5x better than you thought.

 

[sjm]

ESPN doesn't do jack for pool - they're paid to show the tournaments.

While there is some truth in this, as ESPN does little to finance pro pool, I think it's a generally misleading statement.

For starters, ESPN has greatly upgraded pool's time slots in the last year or two. More pool is being shown in good time slots than ever before, and several hour sequences of pool have filled prime time on some occsions. Four hours in a row for the UPA event from 6:00 PM to 10:00 PM. That's fantastic. Two weeks ago, they showed the three TV matches of the 2004 WPBA Nationals back to back to back from 8:00 PM to 11:00 PM. Bingo!

Second, ESPN has done more and more to preannounce pool's time slots giving the pool fan a chance to plan to watch. It was only eighteen months ago on this very foum that posters complained that they never knew when pool was going to be on the air.

Third, ESPN does reruns of pool very frequently, and while this may not do a lot for some of the more serious pool fans, it does mean that somebody who sponsors an advertsiement on a pool telecast gets some extra exposure for their proudcts and services absolutely free. This makes such sposnsorship more attractive and helps our sport.

Fourth, the period between the date of competition and the telecast of an event has declined over the past year ot two.

In these ways, ESPN has clearly taken steps to increased the profile of pro pool, so I'd have to argue that ESPN has done quite a bit for our sport of late.

 

[candyman]

Mybe you're right, but I based my answer on how it was done at Mohegan Sun during the challenge of Champions. There, they had a powerful overhead projector that displayed their logo when turned on.

SJM you are right I was at Mohegan Sun Challenge of Campions and I asked how they get that. I was told it is projected on the table.

 

[FLICKit]

We've all seen Pool on ESPN and the likes... Just thought it might be interesting to get a better understanding of how things work...


Special Effects
How do they display the logo on top of the pool table - usually it's a casino logo? Is that just some very expensive, high powered projector? Do the lights still have to be dimmed to a certain level?

How do they overlay the graphical images of the pool balls on top of the real ones? Is there some special software package that it takes to do that? Is it similar to the software that they use to make the yellow stripe to mark the first downs in football?

What does it take to do a pocket cam? Any special tricks needed in order to keep it from interfering with the play of the game?


Rating Systems
What is the best rating system used to determine a player's ability? I've seen the AccuStats that they use for the pros, how does that one work? What factors are used to determine the rating? Does it require special equipment since the ratings adjust real time? Since pros are about 800-900, would an average player be about 400-450? Is the system used for anything other than pros?

What are other good rating systems - including leagues? Some simpletons will say NONE, of course, ignoring those. What do they base their handicaps on? How do they each work? Obviously, can't give specific details and formulas, but should be able to give general details i.e. balls made or missed, innings, balls left on table, games won....


Pro Events
What does it take to get a pro event in an area? Is it just some businessmen willing to invest the prize funds, or do the casinos pay it for the publicity, or is it basically done through ESPN? Is there some sort of schedule or circuit that the pool pros follow?


Miscellaneous
Suppose someone has an idea about some pool invention, any thoughts on steps needed to convert that idea into a real product - if feasible of course.


Looks like this has expanded beyond, just what's seen on ESPN. Just thought some discussion and answers might be interesting. Feel free to post any similar questions that you might have as well.

Any Positive responses would be appreciated.

Thanks

Good job with your answers Doomcue.

Looks like we agree that the logo is done with a high powered projector.

I heard you say that the balls are overlays put on post production, but after watching ESPN last night, I'm not so sure.

The Announcers were interacting with the display real-time - drawing lines designating likely path of the cue ball. Not only that, but they're even off sometimes (which is understandable since pool players will play some positions as a matter of personal preference). I think it's something similar to football once again i.e. when John Madden draws a line and yells boom to designate the moment of impact between a linebacker and the running back. Appears like some teleprompter that allows them to diagram things out.

Pocket cam sounds easy enough with a pencil camera. Maybe just a matter of some logistics for ensuring that it's outta the way, and in addition they seem to be able to move the camera.
When they show the balls going into the pocket (last moment) through the pocket cam its of little use. Sometimes it provides additional information, regarding how the ball rattles into the pocket, although most of the time the normal camera angle demonstrates that as well. The pocket cam works very excellent, when it's used to show the player from stroking to shooting to actually pocketing the ball. At that time, it can be a very enlightening effect.


Rating systems
Some people have said that it's been discussed to death, which I wouldn't be surprised. The thing is it isn't easy to find detailed information regarding various league formats. Some use games and innings as the primary factors, some use games and balls left on table, some use shots made and missed, some factor in whether shots are makeable or missable, some just use some sort of team handicap (does it carry over for the next season, or do they start from scratch?). Even at the various obvious websites, you have to do some major searching to find any information on how it's actually conducted. Would be useful if it was all compiled in some straightforward format, and added into the FAQ or something. Seems like that'd be useful for giving people the opportunity to choose which format most correlates with what they'd like to play. Or maybe even generating some new ideas for better systems.

Pro Events, sounds like it's just a matter of getting good sponsors (i.e. Brunswick or Simonis... along with some casino) and then paying to have the event along with generating the prize funds.

Inventions, sounds like it's just a matter of going through the same usual channels for any invention (USPA).