How tight/firm to keep a closed bridge?

krupa

The Dream Operator
Silver Member
The subject pretty much says it all... I like using a closed bridge but I don't keep my fingers very tight: usually I can see light next to the stick.

(Sean, I looked at your post about the open-V bridge and your link with pics of Sigel and Pagulayan. Their bridges look pretty snug.)


thanks
-matthew
 
krupa...It depends on the shot. For power strokes, a firmer closed bridge will greatly improve accuracy. We teach a closed bridge for center or below, and open for follow shots...as a general rule.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
 
I generally only give out advice when I see someone that has an issue I have had in the past. Now, your post leads me to believe your fundamental bridging technique maybe flawed. You would not be asking that question if it was not. I had this issue and looked into it and learned how to bridge correctly, it made the game just a little bit easier :D
 
Also keep in mind that you can have too tight of a bridge where it either restricts motion or where your fingers may be pressing inadvertently down or sideways on the stick, which could force a compensating movement or more tension in your back hand. So snug is okay without tension, but a small amount of "whitespace" between the fingers is okay as long as the overall bridge is constructed properly.

Scott
 
Tonight I practiced with a more snug bridge. I think it worked out all right. I got my highest score in Fargo to date. I did, however, incorporate a couple other changes so it's probably not all due to this but I think it helped.

Thanks for the input!
-matthew
 
space doesnt matter, as long as it is snug!

I cover this is exact issue in my No Time For Negative 2 hr. dvd. which is for sale on ebay for $29.99.

Best of Luck !!!!!
 
The subject pretty much says it all... I like using a closed bridge but I don't keep my fingers very tight: usually I can see light next to the stick.

(Sean, I looked at your post about the open-V bridge and your link with pics of Sigel and Pagulayan. Their bridges look pretty snug.)


thanks
-matthew

Tonight I practiced with a more snug bridge. I think it worked out all right. I got my highest score in Fargo to date. I did, however, incorporate a couple other changes so it's probably not all due to this but I think it helped.

Thanks for the input!
-matthew

Matthew:

"Snugness" is not a substitute for "proper construction." One of the issues with the closed bridge, is where the wood of the cue shaft is touching skin -- and where on the hand/fingers that skin is. If the cue shaft is touching a very fleshy part of the hand/fingers (e.g. the flesh between the joints on the fingers, or the webbing between the thumb and the hand), there is the issue of that flesh "wobbling" while the shaft rides upon it. This is a common problem with the "merely loop the index finger over the thumb, press the index finger's tip upon the thumb tip" type of closed bridge. (I.e. the closed bridge "of old.") As you might guess, any inconsistency here in the bridge hand, will introduce an error in where you hit the cue ball -- anywhere from 1/8 to 1/4 inch! (That's nevermind the new change in the cue's angle from where you originally "intended" to hit the cue ball.) Merely applying pressure (tightness/firmness) to the bridge will probably solve some of the "wobbly flesh" issues, but not all of them. (The flesh moving back and forth problem is still there because of friction; it's just that now you've removed some of the "slack" and the resulting space in the bridge for the cue's direction to astray.)

I dare say most players today use a different type of closed bridge, which is the "index finger pressing down upon the middle finger" style of closed bridge that you say (above) you viewed in my pics. This style of closed bridge positions very bony parts of the fingers against the cue shaft's wood surface, so that the issue of "wobbly flesh" is minimized. Basically, you have a hard surface meeting a hard surface, and it's much more stable / predictable.

However, because there's now an inherent "V" channel in this style of bridge (that isn't there with the old-school "index finger looped over tip of thumb" closed bridge -- which is more of an "O" aperture). You have to orient that "V" channel correctly, otherwise the taper of your cue shaft will introduce a bit of "rise" as the cue shaft's girth gets thicker and thicker as it rides through that "V" channel. If the "V" channel is lying on its side like this ">" (for a right-handed/lefthand-bridge player), or like this "<" (for a left-handed/righthand-bridge player), the "rise" occurs from left-to-right or right-to-left as the cue rides through that flopped-over "V" channel. Thus, you have the centerline of the cue moving from side to side as it rides through that flopped-over "V" channel.

That's why you'll see many pros that will use this type of bridge WITHOUT resting the palm of the bridge on the table surface -- they're just pressing down on the middle/ring/pinkie fingertips (or even just the middle/pinkie, with the ring finger "tapping" the table surface, or just tucked under the palm of the hand). Or, as Alex Pagulayan does, you'll see him scrunch the index finger's pressure point further up onto the middle finger -- towards or even on top of the second joint -- to tilt that "V" channel upwards and try to "right" it straight up and down.

It might seem like a lot of work, and those that use an open bridge -- where the upright "V" channel naturally occurs -- may say, "look at all that crap you have to do with the closed bridge -- why even bother?" But the stability that a proper closed bridge offers over an open bridge is a boon to your play. And the first time you do it correctly, you'll have that "light bulb illuminated over your head" moment -- that "Aha!" moment. And your game just notched up another level.

Hope this is helpful,
-Sean
 
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Matthew:

"Snugness" is not a substitute for "proper construction." One of the issues with the closed bridge, is where the wood of the cue shaft is touching skin -- and where on the hand/fingers that skin is. If the cue shaft is touching a very fleshy part of the hand/fingers (e.g. the flesh between the joints on the fingers, or the webbing between the thumb and the hand), there is the issue of that flesh "wobbling" while the shaft rides upon it. This is a common problem with the "merely loop the index finger over the thumb, press the index finger's tip upon the thumb tip" type of closed bridge. (I.e. the closed bridge "of old.") As you might guess, any inconsistency here in the bridge hand, will introduce an error in where you hit the cue ball -- anywhere from 1/8 to 1/4 inch! (That's nevermind the new change in the cue's angle from where you originally "intended" to hit the cue ball.) Merely applying pressure (tightness/firmness) to the bridge will probably solve some of the "wobbly flesh" issues, but not all of them. (The flesh moving back and forth problem is still there because of friction; it's just that now you've removed some of the "slack" and the resulting space in the bridge for the cue's direction to astray.)

I dare say most players today use a different type of closed bridge, which is the "index finger pressing down upon the middle finger" style of closed bridge that you say (above) you viewed in my pics. This style of closed bridge positions very bony parts of the fingers against the cue shaft's wood surface, so that the issue of "wobbly flesh" is minimized. Basically, you have a hard surface meeting a hard surface, and it's much more stable / predictable.

However, because there's now an inherent "V" channel in this style of bridge (that isn't there with the old-school "index finger looped over tip of thumb" closed bridge -- which is more of an "O" aperture). You have to orient that "V" channel correctly, otherwise the taper of your cue shaft will introduce a bit of "rise" as the cue shaft's girth gets thicker and thicker as it rides through that "V" channel. If the "V" channel is lying on its side like this ">" (for a right-handed/lefthand-bridge player), or like this "<" (for a left-handed/righthand-bridge player), the "rise" occurs from left-to-right or right-to-left as the cue rides through that flopped-over "V" channel. Thus, you have the centerline of the cue moving from side to side as it rides through that flopped-over "V" channel.

That's why you'll see many pros that will use this type of bridge WITHOUT resting the palm of the bridge on the table surface -- they're just pressing down on the middle/ring/pinkie fingertips (or even just the middle/pinkie, with the ring finger "tapping" the table surface, or just tucked under the palm of the hand). Or, as Alex Pagulayan does, you'll see him scrunch the index finger's pressure point further up onto the middle finger -- towards or even on top of the second joint -- to tilt that "V" channel upwards and try to "right" it straight up and down.

It might seem like a lot of work, and those that use an open bridge -- where the upright "V" channel naturally occurs -- may say, "look at all that crap you have to do with the closed bridge -- why even bother?" But the stability that a proper closed bridge offers over an open bridge is a boon to your play. And the first time you do it correctly, you'll have that "light bulb illuminated over your head" moment -- that "Aha!" moment. And your game just notched up another level.

Hope this is helpful,
-Sean

It's true that the V-channel bridge you described is being used more and more lately. But it's not new. Ray Martin showed it to me back around 1981.

I used it for awhile, but overall, I don't like it. I think it puts too much stress on the middle finger.
 
Imho this is a very *critical* point to describe online. There are so many things with your bridge *what could happen* if you don t do it right. Very underestimated problem in my opinion. Furthermore the given naturally given things (length of fingers, size, etc) makin also a huge difference.

I m often jealous if i see some guys who have big hands with long fingers...and seeing how crazy things they re able to do without any problems, lol.
 
It's true that the V-channel bridge you described is being used more and more lately. But it's not new. Ray Martin showed it to me back around 1981.

I used it for awhile, but overall, I don't like it. I think it puts too much stress on the middle finger.

That's right, Fran! And Steve Mizerak and Mike Sigel have been using it long before any Pinoy stepped foot on US soil.

I know what you mean about the stress upon the middle finger; also, there is stress on that fingertip joint on the index finger as well. Both need to get used to. After a long day of pool, I sometimes have to soak my hands in a warm Epsom Salts bath, otherwise, I'm sore the next day.

-Sean
 
I'm going to try to take a picture of my bridge when I get home tonight. I don't know if it will be useful, but might as well see what we can see, eh?
 
I'm going to try to take a picture of my bridge when I get home tonight. I don't know if it will be useful, but might as well see what we can see, eh?

Matthew:

If you can -- i.e. have someone assist you -- take a picture from a couple different angles; i.e. from the side, from the front (i.e. as if you're cueing directly into the camera lens), and from the back.

Now, to head this off -- because we know it's going to happen from certain readers -- the intent is not to "dictate" "what should the bridge look like." We all know that everyone's preferences and idiosyncracies (e.g. longer fingers, double-jointedness, callouses, past injuries that need to be worked around, etc.) will dictate what style of bridge he/she uses.

Rather, the intent is to suggest minor tweaks that may prove helpful. That's what this forum is about.

Looking forward to the pics,
-Sean
 
In the spirit of making a minor tweak as Sean suggested, may I ask if you'd try getting the forefinger closer to the middle knuckle of your middle finger? In the side view photos your forefinger is "escaping" your thumb. Getting it under so that the right side of your forefinger's nail is about even with the bottom of your thumbnail will let you secure the forefinger with less pressure than you'd need otherwise for stability.

I also find this a comfortable spot as it tends to bring the forefinger nail downward so that it's edge is pressing into the middle finger in a more comfortable place than with your bridge.

Give it a shot and report back? Thank you.
 
In the spirit of making a minor tweak as Sean suggested, may I ask if you'd try getting the forefinger closer to the middle knuckle of your middle finger? In the side view photos your forefinger is "escaping" your thumb. Getting it under so that the right side of your forefinger's nail is about even with the bottom of your thumbnail will let you secure the forefinger with less pressure than you'd need otherwise for stability.

I also find this a comfortable spot as it tends to bring the forefinger nail downward so that it's edge is pressing into the middle finger in a more comfortable place than with your bridge.

Give it a shot and report back? Thank you.

Thanks.

I brought the tip of my index finger up closer to the knuckle on my middle finger. (After re-reading this, I don't think it's what you were suggesting.) By doing that, my bridge is a little more snug but I'm not using any extra muscle contraction do to that. Previously, I was basically tightening my hand like I was making a fist.

After a couple days (3-4 hours total) of playing this way, I think it's an improvement.
 
It is what I was suggesting. I was being super-specific. The loop change also very, very slightly will change your cue stick angle to the ball...
 
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