how to differentiate between rail rubber

cammel8

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Is there a foolproof way to differentiate between the rail rubbers when replacing the rubber on a table? I thought it was color but this person swears up and down it is k-66 on his table. How do i know for sure which one to use?
 

PoolTable911

AdvancedBilliardSolutions
Silver Member
Is there a foolproof way to differentiate between the rail rubbers when replacing the rubber on a table? I thought it was color but this person swears up and down it is k-66 on his table. How do i know for sure which one to use?

Measure it. k55 is 1 1/4" & k66 is 1 1/8"
 

ROB.M

:)
Silver Member
Table

Measuring cushions can be misleading because sometimes the cushion has been sanded down.

If you don't know the make or model and have no speed square to measure the height of the back of the subrail to determine the height.

I highly suggest to take a razor and slit the cloth rite at the feather strip or if you have no feather strip on your rails make a slit on the under side where the cushion meets the wood then take scissors and cut all the cloth away from the cushion-- I cut all the top and sides then make a slit to rip the length to remove the strip of cloth-
then you'll be able to find a cushion logo or some type of marking to ID the cushion. You might have to strip more than one rail to find markings for ID and you'll be able to take pics so we know you have.



Rob.M
 
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PoolTable911

AdvancedBilliardSolutions
Silver Member
Is there a foolproof way to differentiate between the rail rubbers when replacing the rubber on a table? I thought it was color but this person swears up and down it is k-66 on his table. How do i know for sure which one to use?

This should help.
 

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realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Is there a foolproof way to differentiate between the rail rubbers when replacing the rubber on a table? I thought it was color but this person swears up and down it is k-66 on his table. How do i know for sure which one to use?

Wait a minute here.....YOU are working as a pool table mechanic replacing the cushions....and YOU don't know the difference between cushions?
 

cammel8

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Wait a minute here.....YOU are working as a pool table mechanic replacing the cushions....and YOU don't know the difference between cushions?

I haven't seen them, and up until now I've only replaced valley ones (and they all took the exact same rails) and one drop pocket table. Mind you I have done 23 sets of them but short of the one set I did on a drop pocket table where the owner had ordered everything to do it himself and just had me come in and assemble them, the only time i had to know which ones went on the table, where on the valleys and I called valley and just asked.

I am sure there isn't much difference between all the different tables out there, but even if there is I can adapt. The concept is still the same. I mean how much different could they really be? Take old off, clean them, glue new on, cut profile, apply end pads, trim pads, refelt.

As far as identifying it. He called and said he needed new k-66 rails but when he described them to me and said they were red. I was told to differentiate one from the other. k-55 = red k-66 is tan u-23 has a greenish tint, and centuries are a really funny shape. Im guessing that is wrong hence me coming here.

I want to be sure I order the correct rails before I, order them, wait for them too ship, get them in, set up the appointment, go to his house thats an hour away and then look like an idiot. I figured if there was a foolproof way where I can just look at them and tell I would just have him cut the felt off and send me a pic, however if not then I will go out and look myself in person but I would rather not make an hour trip just for measurements unless i absolutely have to.

So for the record I have plenty of experience doing them and I know how to do them, I just don't have experience identifying them. So instead of acting like I knew what I was doing I came here for help because I knew someone else far wiser than myself would know the answer and help me.

I would much rather ask a question in here (even though I may look foolish in front of my pears) and learn the correct way to identify them, then use that knowledge in the future, than learn from a huge mistake I made, that made me look like a fool in front of a customer in the field.

I am a huge proponent of the idea that 99% of knowledge out there is learned from someone else. Even if you teach yourself you base it off of research you did before hand. How many people that know how to do rails can honestly say that 100% of what they do are their own ideas based solely on how they think it should be done. From the glue you use to the knife to the way you cut your angle to how you wrap the felt. 99% of the time something you do you learned form someone else.

That is all I am doing. Im learning just like everyone else did. Main difference I have you guys to look to for answers where you may not have had the same opportunity .
 

cnyncrvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You cant differentiate with color. You can find K55, K66, U23 in Grey, Brown, Tan, White, Brick, Light Pink, Dark Pink, and Black. Also some of your cheaper quality cushions wont have any markings on them at all identifying profile or manufacturer.

Also not to discount what you are saying but Valley has not been the most consistent in the profile they used either, I have seen Valleys with both K55 and K66 from the factory. Plus there are a couple companies that make aftermarket rails for Valley/Dynamo tables and the two main companies use different profiles from each other.
 

cammel8

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ok so I was able to get over there and here is what I found. The rail rubber from base (part you glue) to nose is .831 inch or 21.12mm. The width of the base is 1.047in or 26.46mm. From what I can tell from the pic I found on one of the sites, this appears to be closest to the u23 profile. However it is not exact. Im guessing it is the u23 but has shrunk. Can someone either confirm or deny my suspicions. By the way there is no identifying marker on the rail itself anywhere i have checked.

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realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Ok so I was able to get over there and here is what I found. The rail rubber from base (part you glue) to nose is .831 inch or 21.12mm. The width of the base is 1.047in or 26.46mm. From what I can tell from the pic I found on one of the sites, this appears to be closest to the u23 profile. However it is not exact. Im guessing it is the u23 but has shrunk. Can someone either confirm or deny my suspicions. By the way there is no identifying marker on the rail itself anywhere i have checked.

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Don't use a micrometer to measure the cushions, use a tape measure and round off to the nearest 1/16" and post pictures of the cushion's and not the readings from a micrometer. Also, post some pictures of the rail blocks....because I can't tell what's what if I have no idea what you're working on.
 

cammel8

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Don't use a micrometer to measure the cushions, use a tape measure and round off to the nearest 1/16" and post pictures of the cushion's and not the readings from a micrometer. Also, post some pictures of the rail blocks....because I can't tell what's what if I have no idea what you're working on.

ironically i took pics with both i only uploaded the ones with micrometer cause i figured it was more accurate. Here are the others. Not sure of make of table because that plate is long gone and only markings i could find was where it was stamped slate so that helps none. I do know its an old table like 60s-70s era. I also took some extras today hopefully this helps.

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JMI

J.M.I. Billiard Service.
Because I consider pool tables built like that to be junk, therefore disposable tables once they start needing repairs done to them.

Why wouldn't you just explain to your client the situation with there table and educate them? Then if they still want to proceed do the job to the best of your capability. Make them happy and then you have a customer for life or sell them a new or used table in your inventory? I cant see anyone in business just telling a customer that there table was a POS and you wont touch it ?
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Why wouldn't you just explain to your client the situation with there table and educate them? Then if they still want to proceed do the job to the best of your capability. Make them happy and then you have a customer for life or sell them a new or used table in your inventory? I cant see anyone in business just telling a customer that there table was a POS and you wont touch it ?

Because in over 32+ years of working on pool tables, I've learned they all belong in one of two class's, one being worth while working on, and one that the manufacturer knew was a piece of shit brand new but sold it to some unsuspecting customer just to make a dollar and that customer didn't care about the quality in the first place. MDF rails fall apart when you're trying to pound in the feather strip, they crumble at the ends of the rails, the frames are even worse than the rails are as far as quality goes....and if you open that Pandora box...you'll own it trust me, because when that customer starts saying things like....oh, no just pass on the extra work needed to fix it right....or, man that's a lot of money to fix my table, I only paid $200 for it....or, no, I don't want to pay for anything else, I just want the cloth replace....and the table leveled:eek:....so, I find its better to pass on the work rather than spend 2 or 3 days trying to fix something that's just not worth it....and I don't need the money to the point that I have to rip the customer off do to their own ignorance, I refuse to do that just to make a dollar....even if I'm broke! And I've played the sell them a better table game, that don't work most of the time either....because I find that if they wanted a better table, and was willing to spend the money to get one.......I wouldn't be working on a piece of shit in the first place;)
 
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JMI

J.M.I. Billiard Service.
Because in over 32+ years of working on pool tables, I've learned they all belong in one of two class's, one being worth while working on, and one that the manufacturer knew was a piece of shit brand new but sold it to some unsuspecting customer just to make a dollar and that customer didn't care about the quality in the first place. MDF rails fall apart when you're trying to pound in the feather strip, they crumble at the ends of the rails, the frames are even worse than the rails are as far as quality goes....and if you open that Pandora box...you'll own it trust me, because when that customer starts saying things like....oh, no just pass on the extra work needed to fix it right....or, man that's a lot of money to fix my table, I only paid $200 for it....or, no, I don't want to pay for anything else, I just want the cloth replace....and the table leveled:eek:....so, I find its better to pass on the work rather than spend 2 or 3 days trying to fix something that's just not worth it....and I don't need the money to the point that I have to rip the customer off do to their own ignorance, I refuse to do that just to make a dollar....even if I'm broke! And I've played the sell them a better table game, that don't work most of the time either....because I find that if they wanted a better table, and was willing to spend the money to get one.......I wouldn't be working on a piece of shit in the first place;)


That's why I said you need to educate your customer about the situation with there table. (BEFORE REMOVING THE RAIL RUBBER) Then if they wish to proceed do the job. (if you are able)
I have 20+ years working on pool tables and I am fully aware of the "Pandora's box" this can open it just depends on each situation...and condition of the MDF at that time. If you can make the table look and play much better than it did before then I would do it. Then you have a satisfied customer that in the future will call you again when they are ready or able to upgrade not to mention all the referrals they may send your way in my book that's...NOT RIPPING SOMEONE OFF.
That's good honest service!!
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
That's why I said you need to educate your customer about the situation with there table. (BEFORE REMOVING THE RAIL RUBBER) Then if they wish to proceed do the job. (if you are able)
I have 20+ years working on pool tables and I am fully aware of the "Pandora's box" this can open it just depends on each situation...and condition of the MDF at that time. If you can make the table look and play much better than it did before then I would do it. Then you have a satisfied customer that in the future will call you again when they are ready or able to upgrade not to mention all the referrals they may send your way in my book that's...NOT RIPPING SOMEONE OFF.
That's good honest service!!

I'm glad for you buddy, work must be hard to find in your area that you have to resort to bottom feeding to make a living, but to each their own I guess. I for one don't drive around the country with an inventory of pool tables just waiting to sell someone that needs a piece of shit replaced, but I do have work waiting on me in every city there is in this country, even in your backyard....so I must be doing something right:cool:
 
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