I’m recently ordered a custom Kielwood shaft and have some questions about my customization options and how each will affect the playability.

E

EasyBreezy

Registered
Hey all,
first, I hope this is the proper place to ask these questions. I figure cue makers have probably experimented with more variations in shafts than the average player.

I currently play with a 12.5mm 29” maple shaft. I mostly play 8-ball but am trying to improve my one pocket game. my focus will be working on those soft, high spin, cue ball control shots (that so often come up in one pocket;). Am already off track by trying a kielwood shaft?

I can get my new shaft up to 31” and I’m thinking about trying it at that length. I’m a little over 6’ and think I would enjoy that extra length. How is that extra length going to affect its play? I had a friend mention that the extra length might make it a little too “whippy.” Could/Should I try a different taper to counteract that? I was also thinking about stepping down to a 12.25mm tip. What are the pros and cons of short vs long ferrules?

Do you have any thoughts on any of these different variables? How does each interact with the others? Is the low deflection of the kielwood necessarily antithetical to maximum cueball control?

Right now, unless I get some advice convincing me otherwise, I think I will get it 31” shaft with a 12.5mm tip and just a pro taper. My reason is two fold. This will change the fewest variables between my current shaft and my new one, and I can always shorten from 31” and turn it down from 12.5mm.

Thanks for your thoughts!
 
I'm 6'2" and use 30" shafts, works for me. Not sure I would care for a 31" shaft. For my needs, if I need more than a 30" shaft I'll put an extension on the back for those shots. Ea his own I guess, maybe it would matter on larger tables, but I play leagues on 7', and home table is oversized 8'.
Not sure how a 31" shaft will feel as for most shots there is more butt hanging out. I really have no idea, but if you are new and only have one cue, you will probably just get used to it anyway, but that doesn't necessarily make it right.
Not sure I would go with a pro taper on a wood shaft that long. Why don't you ask the person making the shaft as he can probably give you a better answer.
 
muskyed said:
I'm 6'2" and use 30" shafts, works for me. Not sure I would care for a 31" shaft. For my needs, if I need more than a 30" shaft I'll put an extension on the back for those shots. Ea his own I guess, maybe it would matter on larger tables, but I play leagues on 7', and home table is oversized 8'.
Not sure how a 31" shaft will feel as for most shots there is more butt hanging out. I really have no idea, but if you are new and only have one cue, you will probably just get used to it anyway, but that doesn't necessarily make it right.
Not sure I would go with a pro taper on a wood shaft that long. Why don't you ask the person making the shaft as he can probably give you a better answer.
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Oh, that’s great feedback, thanks! how long have you played with that 30” shaft? Did you notice any meaningful difference when you went to that from a 29”? I know there are a million factors that could explain any change every time you make an equipment change. What taper do you use or would you suggest for me?

I did speak to the guy briefly about playing characteristics and he gave me some thoughts but I like drawing from a wide range of experiences and coming to conclusions that way.

thanks again
 
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EasyBreezy said:
Hey all,
first, I hope this is the proper place to ask these questions. I figure cue makers have probably experimented with more variations in shafts than the average player.

I currently play with a 12.5mm 29” maple shaft. I mostly play 8-ball but am trying to improve my one pocket game. my focus will be working on those soft, high spin, cue ball control shots (that so often come up in one pocket;). Am already off track by trying a kielwood shaft?

I can get my new shaft up to 31” and I’m thinking about trying it at that length. I’m a little over 6’ and think I would enjoy that extra length. How is that extra length going to affect its play? I had a friend mention that the extra length might make it a little too “whippy.” Could/Should I try a different taper to counteract that? I was also thinking about stepping down to a 12.25mm tip. What are the pros and cons of short vs long ferrules?

Do you have any thoughts on any of these different variables? How does each interact with the others? Is the low deflection of the kielwood necessarily antithetical to maximum cueball control?

Right now, unless I get some advice convincing me otherwise, I think I will get it 31” shaft with a 12.5mm tip and just a pro taper. My reason is two fold. This will change the fewest variables between my current shaft and my new one, and I can always shorten from 31” and turn it down from 12.5mm.

Thanks for your thoughts!
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I am not a cuemaker. Honestly I see no reason to ever go below 12.5mm tips for American pool balls. 13mm can be a little big for some people. There are of course preferences and I'm not saying there is no use for sub 12.5mm tips, but in general I don't see anyone playing much better with anything less than 12.5". Maybe at pro level, or in some rare cases it leads to improvement but I've never seen it actually improve anything with anyone I know. It doesn't necessarily make anything worse either. One common thought is that the smaller the tip the less forgiving it is for pocketing but could allow more accurate shape. Who knows.

Generally torrified wood is a bit lighter than standard maple. A lot of times an extra inch of shaft will help maintain balance/weight. 30" works fine and isn't a huge thing to learn. I have no idea if an extra extra inch (31") would cause much issue but it could be a bit more to adapt to.

Edit: I play with a 30" and I really like it. It wasn't huge to adapt to or anything and in some edge cases having the extra inch is really nice. It might save you from using a bridge but often if you would need a bridge on a 29" shaft you would probably be better using it on the same shot with a 30" shaft. Again, edge cases. I think as a taller guy you will appreciate the extra length. I'm about 1/4" shy of 6' and I find the 30" shaft more natural feeling.
 
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EasyBreezy said:
Oh, that’s great feedback, thanks! how long have you played with that 30” shaft? Did you notice any meaningful difference when you went to that from a 29”? I know there are a million factors that could explain any change every time you make an equipment change. What taper do you use or would you suggest for me?

I did speak to the guy briefly about playing characteristics and he gave me some thoughts but I like drawing from a wide range of experiences and coming to conclusions that way.

thanks again
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Not sure how to actually reply to that. I like that it more keeps my hand from the butt cap and it just feels more natural for me. As was stated, it isn't that 1" extra length is going to eliminate the need for a bridge or an extension, but just for me the cue feels right in my hand. I have many cues and a lot with standard 29" shafts and play fine with them, I just like it better with the 30" shafts. My 2 cues I use in leagues use Jacoby Ultra shafts. Started out at the 12.75 version but after awhile tapered that to 12.5 and like that. I just tapered the last 10" or so. My other playing cue, a Jacoby, as I had to have a 30" shaft made anyway, I just had them make it in 12.5.
I also have a Schon shaft in 30" and had played with tapering it down a few times and ended up about 12.3 but somewhat of a pro taper and didn't like it as the hit was somewhat muted. I then retapered it down to a little over 12mm but only tapered the last 8 or 10" or so and slightly eliminating the pro taper and it plays much better for my needs. This is all something you really need to discuss with the person making your shaft as they can better advise you the direction to go. You really can't make the perfect informed decision based on what someone else likes.
 
I made myself a kielwood shaft and shot with it today. It is 30" pro taper 12.mm tip, and has way less deflection than my cf shaft, which surprised me.

I would not go over 30" as longer probably won't fit in your case!
 

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I'm a wood guy and like the feedback I get from wood over carbon fiber, so at the last exbo I picked up a blank and made a roasted ash shaft for my cue, started out at 31" with a 1-1/2" ferrule knowing I would probably shorten it, with a 10-12" pro taper, 12.5 tip.
Note: I think the thinner the tip the more whippy it will become.

I'm only 5'-8" and liked the extra length for mostly straight pool, but did shorten it to 30" rather quickly. The extra 1" felt funny and the extra long ferrule was a distraction.


FWIW, just my experience/experiment, I'm just an average player.
 
Kielwood is a great choice for 1P. IMO no shaft connects you to the cue ball like KW. The feedback is great. I made a couple shafts for friend's McWorter and he loves them. He's a strong 1P player.
I've made 31 inch shafts for a 6'6" customer. It had a 12.6 mm tip. It went with the 31 inch butt I made for him. The 31 inch shaft will not be whippy. You will need a soft butterfly style case to fit the extra length.
I only make 30 inch shafts unless someone specifically asks for a 29 inch shaft (one person).
I would not recommend a pro taper. A slight taper will play much better.
 
muskyed said:
I'm 6'2" and use 30" shafts, works for me. Not sure I would care for a 31" shaft.
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.I'm not a cue maker ...I have a custom 31 by McDermott for a McDermott .... absolutely hate it. I played with 30's for a while and went back to 29. I'm 6'1. Long arms.
There are no rules for length. No rules for what's best. Experiment until you are satisfied...
 
I am 6'1" and play with a 31" shaft and a 4" center extension with both my Joss and Lucasi. My break cue just has the 4" extension, but I used aluminum for that to add some extra weight...
 
robbycar said:
I made myself a kielwood shaft and shot with it today. It is 30" pro taper 12.mm tip, and has way less deflection than my cf shaft, which surprised me.

I would not go over 30" as longer probably won't fit in your case!
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What does the shaft weigh? Is the shaft you made piloted or flat faced?
 
Mike Rys, since you’ve been making KW shafts, is it that difficult to find a heavy (11 oz or heavier) wood shaft dowel?

I’ve been trying to get a couple of KW shafts built (big pin flat faced), but the finished shafts need to weigh 4 ozs, 29 1/2”, 12.75mm (pro taper 14-15”). I could accept shafts weighing 3.8 ozs but not lighter and 4.25 would be ideal. I do not want
to artificially alter the shaft by adding weight. The shaft weight should consist of just the tip, ferrule and roasted maple shaft.

Only 1 builder was not discouraged by my specs but his wait time is almost 1/2 year. And of course his shafts cost a lot
more than all the other brands. Am I looking for hens teeth trying to find a cue maker with the right wood inventory?
 
Jeff Prather was very accommodating when I spoke with him at the suggestion of a Azer.

He took time to explain what’s needed and the odds of finding wood that can produce the
heavier shaft weight I’m looking for in a std. 29” length KW shaft. Naturally, a longer shaft can
increase the weight, however, 3.7- 3.8 oz. shafts are more common with 29” Kielwood shafts.

Jeff’s making some shafts & will let me know the shaft weights. I’m eager & anxious to find out.
 
What a terrific person Jeff Prather is. He reminds me of Bob Owen who is absolutely the nicest cue maker I’ve ever
had the opportunity and pleasure of talking with. The shafts, albeit handsome as any KW shafts I’ve seen, aren’t going
to be the weight I was hoping they might. I have a hunch that sooner rather than later a KW shaft is going to appear F/S
and it will be flat faced weighing 4 ounces (3.8 is my min.). Why do I feel that way? Because I’ll likely purchase a KW shaft prior to it happening that’s lighter than 4 ozs. which is still okay but that’s the way things tend to go with my luck.

Thanks Jeff for remembering me; I’d do business with you in a heartbeat, even if it was a stimulated by a pacemaker.
And at my age, that’s not such a far fetched notion but fortunately I don’t have to worry about that now…..or yet…..?
 
Quarter shown for size
 

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aphelps1 said:
Quarter shown for size
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So I waited and waited to see if anyone would observe that the coin is inserted for size illustration, which really made
little sense to since the shaft is tapered and the tip is smaller than a quarter but I didn’t photograph it. But I did make
my own photo of a quarter but not for sizing comparison. The last time I checked the coins in my pocket, I tried to find
a weightless coin because all the coins I’ve handled weigh something? A penny, nickel, dime, quarter, 1/2 dollar, silver dollar, any coin adds weight to the scale when you put it on the scale. The previous weight displayed automatically will change.

The weight total changes and it kind of seems like that happened in the submitted photo. Was the coin in the photo intended to show the shaft collar size because it certainly wasn’t the part of the cue near the ferrule? Anyway,the shaft weighs should be under 4 ozs and I calculate it would be 3.8 ozs. That’s is the min. wt. I’m looking for as long as the shaft was 29”. I couldn’t find any at 29” so I’m hoping 29.5” might be the solution. KW shafts are hard to find that weighing that much unless the shaft is piloted or 30” length. A quarter adds just under a 1/4 oz. weight (actually .201).
 

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