I love beautiful cues...but...

Sbrogdon

Sbrogdon

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
..beautiful cues do not pocket balls any better than any other cue with a "decent" tip.

I see a lot of new players asking advice on cue recommendations. I see a lot of long time players recommending this cue or that cue from "insert custom maker here". While I am all for helping custom makers make a living, suggesting custom cues to new players simply on a subjective opinion of their play-ability I don't see as being too helpful. What may shoot well for you someone else may hate.

Its all wood, plastics, metals, etc.....But, it still comes down to a good tip.

If you have the ability to play, you can run balls with a 5000 custom cue or a 15 dollar Walmart cue, provided it has a decent enough tip.

In my opinion, the only suggestion we should give a new player as far as selecting a cue is, try some and see what calls out to you....That will be your best choice, whether it's a 2500 custom or a 200 production......
 
Not everyone has easy access to try even a fraction of what is available. Nothing wrong with getting the opinions of people who have been around long enough to have the luxuery of experiencing many of the available options. Those people have a unique insight to share. I don't think anyone would ever argue that it isn't subjective, but that doesn't mean one can't still glean useful information from such inquiry. I myself have benefited from it. But, your general premise, that playability does not necessarily equate to price or beauty is certainly true.
 
There is a lot more to a cue than just a tip. For one, the shaft wood, taper, and, balance of a cue goes a long way in how it hits and feels. Sure, you pay more for a custom but at least you can make most of your money back when you decide to sell it down the road.
 
slide13 said:
Not everyone has easy access to try even a fraction of what is available. Nothing wrong with getting the opinions of people who have been around long enough to have the luxuery of experiencing many of the available options. Those people have a unique insight to share. I don't think anyone would ever argue that it isn't subjective, but that doesn't mean one can't still glean useful information from such inquiry. I myself have benefited from it. But, your general premise, that playability does not necessarily equate to price or beauty is certainly true.
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My main point of the post is just because I may love my "custom" cue, you may think it sucks. When someone is new to the game and they are getting advice to go and buy a 500 custom sneaky simply because i said it was a great hitting cue is not very good advice. It very well may turn them away when they drop 500 and find out they hate the way it plays. It would be far better to get whatever is available to you in the area you are in, get a good tip on it...and play.....100 for a cue and 400 worth of playing time will be a bot better than 500 for a cue alone..

We all know, at least the players that have been rolling balls around for 20-30 years like myself, we know that cues come and go. I have cheap cues that shoot and feel great with ugly decals or shotty inlay work and I have higher end cues that look beautiful and shoot ok.....

Pool cues are like guitars. I have several high end (2500+) guitars and I have several low end sub 400 guitars. Because of the way I have them setup my sub 400 guitars play and sound just as sweet as my high dollar guitars....
 
As long as the shaft is good...I always tell people that modern shafts have changed how you approach getting a good cue. Start with any old cheap cue, get a predator or OB, then you've got a cue that hits as well as anything.
 
SC02GTP said:
There is a lot more to a cue than just a tip. For one, the shaft wood, taper, and, balance of a cue goes a long way in how it hits and feels. Sure, you pay more for a custom but at least you can make most of your money back when you decide to sell it down the road.
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Hit and feel are subjective. A 20 dollar cue with a moori medium will pocket a ball just as well as a 5000 cue with a moori medium. I have played with high dollar cues that deflect more than the bar cues off the wall....

The tip is the only thing that contacts the ball and that is really the only thing that really matters on a cue....Even the ferule and the first 6 inches do not matter all that much as long as you determine if it has a warp where to turn the warp to get the tip to hit it straight on.
 
Personal pride and satisfaction in the cue you select is very important IMHO and can make a difference in your game, mainly in the mental aspect--which is VERY important. It's definitely true that you can find a cue that functions perfectly for a very low price...nothing wrong with that. But a lot of folks like to play with a cue that they saved up for or actually had a hand in designing/selecting the materials, etc. And the longer you play, the more preference you'll find in taper, weight, balance, length, and that kind of stuff usually falls in the custom category.
 
Sbrogdon said:
Hit and feel are subjective. A 20 dollar cue with a moori medium will pocket a ball just as well as a 5000 cue with a moori medium. I have played with high dollar cues that deflect more than the bar cues off the wall....

The tip is the only thing that contacts the ball and that is really the only thing that really matters on a cue....Even the ferule and the first 6 inches do not matter all that much as long as you determine if it has a warp where to turn the warp to get the tip to hit it straight on.
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tip feel and hit is just as subjective as cue feel and hit...put a moori on cue A and a moori from the same batch on cue B and they are not going to hit the same...its a combination of cue and tip that make the feel and hit...I'd just about bet that if you were to go buy a $20 walmart cue and put your choice of tip on it you'd ultimately throw the thing in the trash after a few frustrating visits to the pool hall...

There is a certain amount of quality that needs to go into a cue before it meets the standard even for beginners...Same with guitars...hell you can pick up a squire strat or an epiphone les paul for sub $200...is that a great beginner guitar? hell yeah it is! is the $59.99 guitar amp combo kit at walmart a good way to go for a beginner? well it'll get you playing but no matter what strings you put on it its still going to buzz and play like a cheap piece of shit...get where I'm going with that?
 
Rackemep said:
tip feel and hit is just as subjective as cue feel and hit...put a moori on cue A and a moori from the same batch on cue B and they are not going to hit the same...its a combination of cue and tip that make the feel and hit...I'd just about bet that if you were to go buy a $20 walmart cue and put your choice of tip on it you'd ultimately throw the thing in the trash after a few frustrating visits to the pool hall...

There is a certain amount of quality that needs to go into a cue before it meets the standard even for beginners...Same with guitars...hell you can pick up a squire strat or an epiphone les paul for sub $200...is that a great beginner guitar? hell yeah it is! is the $59.99 guitar amp combo kit at walmart a good way to go for a beginner? well it'll get you playing but no matter what strings you put on it its still going to buzz and play like a cheap piece of shit...get where I'm going with that?
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I have a few very cheap cues, they play just as good as any other cue I have. I have the same type tip on all of my cues, and I shape them all the same way, so they all shoot about the same, save some having a bit higher deflection due to having a bit more weight in the front end of the shaft.

I also have a cheap ( well, a bit cheaper) guitar that I mainly play while my 2500+ dollar guitars sit in their cases. Why? because I simply feel more connected to it.

I can take a walmart daisy rock guitar , a file , and a few other simple tools and make it play and sound just as good as any high dollar guitar. Change a few components here and there and when I record with it you couldn't tell the difference.

Same with pool cues. take any 20 dollar cue, put a good tip on it and shape it well for your style of playing, and the balls fall the same. it may not "feel" as good, or you may need to compensate a bit more for deflection, but balls fall none the same.

Pool is about a leather tip hitting a sphere. That's far less than a second of contact time. All other aspects can, and have been for many many years, can be compensated for.
 
There is a huge difference between a $25 cue from a big box store to a $300-$500 cue.

There is however no difference between $300 to $1000 plus cues except for the jewelry and looks of it.

As a matter of fact, those real elaborate cues with huge amount of inlays can hinder how a cue plays due to the fact that a lot has to be cut into it and too much jewelry.

The best cues I play with are usually the plain Jane cues from high end builders.
 
Even if you're an accomplished player, that doesn't mean you'll be able to correctly choose a custom cue maker that will be the perfect fit for you either. The upside of new players buying a nice custom cue from a reputable cue maker is they should be able to break even or make a small profit if they take care of the cue and decide pool isn't for them in a year or more. This may not be true of buying an "off the rack" production cue for $200.

It seems like most of the advice about custom cues was given after the OP requested advice on custom cues. They requested opinions. People responded in the manner they requested.

I wholeheartedly agree with you it is the Indian and not the Arrow. I would tell most people they would benefit by purchasing a $100 cue and spend the rest of their money on lessons from a quality instructor and table time to practice. Some people have plenty of money to do both, steering them towards a quality cue maker then seems a reasonable thing to do.
 
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Sbrogdon said:
I have a few very cheap cues, they play just as good as any other cue I have. I have the same type tip on all of my cues, and I shape them all the same way, so they all shoot about the same, save some having a bit higher deflection due to having a bit more weight in the front end of the shaft.

I also have a cheap ( well, a bit cheaper) guitar that I mainly play while my 2500+ dollar guitars sit in their cases. Why? because I simply feel more connected to it.

I can take a walmart daisy rock guitar , a file , and a few other simple tools and make it play and sound just as good as any high dollar guitar. Change a few components here and there and when I record with it you couldn't tell the difference.

Same with pool cues. take any 20 dollar cue, put a good tip on it and shape it well for your style of playing, and the balls fall the same. it may not "feel" as good, or you may need to compensate a bit more for deflection, but balls fall none the same.

Pool is about a leather tip hitting a sphere. That's far less than a second of contact time. All other aspects can, and have been for many many years, can be compensated for.
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Im not saying that a cheap cue can't play well...hell you can get a new never played action cue for $50 put a good tip on it and you have a decent playing cue that will last a long time...

sure with modifications the super cheap guitar may be made to play and sound decent...raise the nut, put a decent pick-up in it maybe some better tuning pegs along with a decent set of strings...in my opinion that would be the equivalent of putting a predator shaft on a walmart cue not just a tip....
 
SC02GTP said:
There is a lot more to a cue than just a tip.......
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Yeah... You can say that again... True players and great makers know what those differences are and they make a HUGE difference... But then again if you want to play with a stick from Walmart be my guest....

Skins....... Doesn't shop at Walmart....
 
dom_poppa said:
There is a huge difference between a $25 cue from a big box store to a $300-$500 cue.

There is however no difference between $300 to $1000 plus cues except for the jewelry and looks of it.

As a matter of fact, those real elaborate cues with huge amount of inlays can hinder how a cue plays due to the fact that a lot has to be cut into it and too much jewelry.

The best cues I play with are usually the plain Jane cues from high end builders.
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There really isnt a big difference between ANY cues, whether its 20 dollars or 20,000....Wood may "look" better but really be of inferior quality. As long as a cue is built good enough not to fall apart in you hands, you can take and put a good tip on it and it will be fine. Differences lie in balance, deflection, etc....which again, high dollar doesnt always mean better.

The best suggestion for a beginner is to purchase a low end cue, get a decent tip installed on it...and play......I will go to any bar, find a decent house cue that isnt a banana, put a tip on it at the house, and still run as many balls as I do now....

While lower deflection does help, it isnt a necessity for a good game.

Everything about cues being "better" than any other is hype.

While I respect cuemakers, and I have a few higher end cues, I bought them simply because i wanted them, not to improve my game. I do use OB shafts because I play better with them, however, I can play with any cue just as well given enough time with it.
 
skins said:
Yeah... You can say that again... True players and great makers know what those differences are and they make a HUGE difference... But then again if you want to play with a stick from Walmart be my guest....

Skins....... Doesn't shop at Walmart....
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I guess the players 200 years ago were just lucky running 150 in straight pool. I mean, considering they didnt have access to predator shafts, southwest cues, kamui tips, simonis cloth, etc.....

TRUE players can play with anything....as long as the tips plays well.......And even IF the tips are crap.....some players can still run racks like its cake.....
 
Sbrogdon said:
I guess the players 200 years ago were just lucky running 150 in straight pool. I mean, considering they didnt have access to predator shafts, southwest cues, kamui tips, simonis cloth, etc.....

TRUE players can play with anything....as long as the tips plays well.......And even IF the tips are crap.....some players can still run racks like its cake.....
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Ok maybe you know more than me...but I'd bet if you gave those same players a nice Bushka, Szamboti, Southwest, Tucker, Josey, Cognoscenti, Frey, Searing, Sugartree, MANZINO, Kline, Showman...Etc... The list can go on and on...with the same tip, They'd probably run MORE balls.... Just a guess though

Skins........ I guessed a lot in school.... :D
 
skins said:
Ok maybe you know more than me...but I'd bet if you gave those same players a nice Bushka, Szamboti, Southwest, Tucker, Josey, Cognoscenti, Frey, Searing, Sugartree, MANZINO, Kline, Showman...Etc... The list can go on and on...with the same tip, They'd probably run MORE balls.... Just a guess though

Skins........ I guessed a lot in school.... :D
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39X5gqK9xds


its the player not the tool.....
 
I am with OP on this whole "slap a decent tip on a cue shaped piece of wood" things and you are good to hook. I won my first bit of coin in pool with a $16.00 KMart 54" cue, It had a real live tip and ferrule on it and I installed a triangle tip on it... and that tip was magic... one of those triangles that just keeps on going and going and going forever.

The only reason I would even contemplate going to a Custom Cue Maker is so that I could get precisely what I want in a cue..... and since you are wondering:

30" butt with 2 30" shafts, Merry Widow, Straight ugly plain bland solid hard rock maple throughout with a white phenolic Hoppe ring and no other adornments. Bumperless with a stainless steel bolt plate. Fully cored forearm. 3/8 x 10 PILOTED, yes.. piloted stainless pin with the piloted nubbins on both shafts. I will also want a Predator 314 and OB Classic Pro shafts converted to the piloted inserts, so a total of 4 shafts. Total cue weight 18 ounces or there abouts depending on the shafts.

But for new players... they have to get to the point where they have been through the ringer with different cues and shafts before they know what they want.
 
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