I Saw Greenleaf Play

[Rich93]

No, I'm not that old. Years ago I bought a Bert Kinister tape called Classics that featured real old-timers - Greenleaf, Hoppe, Erwin Rudolph, Frank Taberski, and others. I watched it again yesterday. The tape is assembled mainly from outtakes from old Movietone News films, which were news shorts that were shown in movie theaters in the days before television. The outtakes were largely missed trick shots or staged scenarios that wound up on the cutting room floor. The Kinister tape is not worth buying, but it does have a fair amount of Greenleaf footage (mostly trick shot practicing).

Greenleaf played with a very stylish stroke. It was a slip stroke - not a big one, just 3 inches or so. He used a very short bridge by today's standards and shot quickly, using two or three quick warm-up strokes. What I found interesting is how similar it was to Mosconi's stroke. I did see Mosconi play in person twice in the 60's - post-Hustler room opening exhibitions. In person Mosconi played quite a bit looser and quicker than he did on television.

In his autobiography Mosconi freely admits to copying Greenleaf, but I didn't know that his copying extended even to his stroke. Mosconi also used a small slip stroke after about two quick warm-up strokes. Greenleaf's rhythm on the tape also appears similar to Mosconi's - fast and loose rather than slow and deliberate.

 

[stick8]

minnesota fats

i saw minnesota fats play, good player, but even better story teller, i enjoyed his gift for gab just like mike sigel. lo lo i will get hate mail on that one !!! ha ha stick

 

[akaTrigger]

Jimmy Caras stated many times that Greenleaf was an exceptional player. One player that should have been "more known" because of his talent.

 

[Rich93]

Jimmy Caras stated many times that Greenleaf was an exceptional player. One player that should have been "more known" because of his talent.

Do you mean Jimmy or Ralph should have been more known? Ralph was very well known, much more so than Jimmy. He was the best known pool player in the first half of the 20th century, and was certainly the greatest player of his era (1920's and 30's).

As for Jimmy, I saw him give an exhibition once in about 1964. It was the usual deal for that time - play a local hotshot straight pool to 125, then do trick shots. Jimmy ran 125 and out and the local hotshot didn't even get to shoot (he lost the lag and broke, I think). So then Jimmy stopped an unfinished run and gave the kid a chance. The poor kid ran about two. My impression of Jimmy from that day was that he was a real nice guy, though a bit nerdy in his mannerisms (but not when playing).

 

[JoeyA]

Hal Houle (rhymes with POOL)

No, I'm not that old. Years ago I bought a Bert Kinister tape called Classics that featured real old-timers - Greenleaf, Hoppe, Erwin Rudolph, Frank Taberski, and others. I watched it again yesterday. The tape is assembled mainly from outtakes from old Movietone News films, which were news shorts that were shown in movie theaters in the days before television. The outtakes were largely missed trick shots or staged scenarios that wound up on the cutting room floor. The Kinister tape is not worth buying, but it does have a fair amount of Greenleaf footage (mostly trick shot practicing).

Greenleaf played with a very stylish stroke. It was a slip stroke - not a big one, just 3 inches or so. He used a very short bridge by today's standards and shot quickly, using two or three quick warm-up strokes. What I found interesting is how similar it was to Mosconi's stroke. I did see Mosconi play in person twice in the 60's - post-Hustler room opening exhibitions. In person Mosconi played quite a bit looser and quicker than he did on television.

In his autobiography Mosconi freely admits to copying Greenleaf, but I didn't know that his copying extended even to his stroke. Mosconi also used a small slip stroke after about two quick warm-up strokes. Greenleaf's rhythm on the tape also appears similar to Mosconi's - fast and loose rather than slow and deliberate.

Ralph Greenleaf lived with Hal Houle for about two or three years if I am not mistaken. And much of what Hal shares with interested pool players was learned from Ralph Greenleaf, including the Golden Angle.

I would love to see that tape. Can it be uploaded to youtube.com?

JoeyA

 

[Rich93]

Ralph Greenleaf lived with Hal Houle for about two or three years if I am not mistaken. And much of what Hal shares with interested pool players was learned from Ralph Greenleaf, including the Golden Angle.

I would love to see that tape. Can it be uploaded to youtube.com?

JoeyA

I'm afraid I have no idea how to do that. The tape is 90 minutes long, by the way.

 

[akaTrigger]

Do you mean Jimmy or Ralph should have been more known? Ralph was very well known, much more so than Jimmy. He was the best known pool player in the first half of the 20th century, and was certainly the greatest player of his era (1920's and 30's).

As for Jimmy, I saw him give an exhibition once in about 1964. It was the usual deal for that time - play a local hotshot straight pool to 125, then do trick shots. Jimmy ran 125 and out and the local hotshot didn't even get to shoot (he lost the lag and broke, I think). So then Jimmy stopped an unfinished run and gave the kid a chance. The poor kid ran about two. My impression of Jimmy from that day was that he was a real nice guy, though a bit nerdy in his mannerisms (but not when playing).

Great Jimmy Cara story!

I meant Ralph - and you stated it better - "Ralph was certainly the greatest player of his era." Jimmy agreed!

Melinda

 

[rossaroni]

Jimmy Caras stated many times that Greenleaf was an exceptional player. One player that should have been "more known" because of his talent.

He may be a little overlooked now, but he was a star in his days. 14 time world champion! He would put on huge exhibitions in ballrooms and would always sell out. He was making great money too. He was also married to an actress- Princess Tai Tai I beleive was her name. Mr. Caras was right that he was an exceptional player!

 

[PoolBum]

He may be a little overlooked now, but he was a star in his days. 14 time world champion! He would put on huge exhibitions in ballrooms and would always sell out. He was making great money too. He was also married to an actress- Princess Tai Tai I beleive was her name. Mr. Caras was right that he was an exceptional player!

I've read before that Greenleaf made more money in the 1920's than Babe Ruth did. I've got a copy of the tape the OP referred to and I find it fascinating to be able to watch these legendary players from yesteryear, especially Greenleaf. You can see from the tape that he had an incredible stroke, btw.

 

[rossaroni]

I've read before that Greenleaf made more money in the 1920's than Babe Ruth did. I've got a copy of the tape the OP referred to and I find it fascinating to be able to watch these legendary players from yesteryear, especially Greenleaf. You can see from the tape that he had an incredible stroke, btw.

I was actaully going to say the same thing about him making more money then Babe Ruth. I beleive that he was making $2000 a week doing exhibitions. Thats a whole lot of money in the 1920's. That should tell you a little bit about his popularity in his day.