Yesterday I convinced myself that I need to buy a pool table. Key word being need. I want a 9 footer and I can make room for it and generate money to buy it by selling my big screen and pretty much all my furniture. With that being the case I should have about $2500 to spend on a table. I am an eBay addict and would love to get an older Brunswick or the like and restore it back to 100%, or luck out and get a GC4, or even a 3. But there are tables on there for like $1200 - $1700 that look good but not sure how they play. What should I look for in a table, aside from Brunswick and Olhausen, who else makes decent tables? Can I get a crappy table and upgrade the rails, pockets and cloth to make it a great playing table?
I want to buy a pool table....which one?
- Thread starter Buddha Jones
- Start date
Like I said, I am an eBay junkie, so I am looking around this morning and I see THIS . $1500 for a 9 footer, free shipping, Naugehyde table cover PLUS;
(1)Set of pro Series Royal Crown Balls
(4)2 piece Cues
(1)Bridge Stick
(1)9 Ball Diamond
(1)Triangle
(1)One Six Cue Roman Rack
(1)Under rail brush
(1)9" Table Brush
(1)Plastic Tally Bottle
(1)Box of Blue Chalk
(2)Rubber Chalk Holders
(1)Tip Repair Kit
(1)8ft. Clear Table Cover
I get to customize it how I want and the whole 9 yards. What am I going to lose from buying that table?
(1)Set of pro Series Royal Crown Balls
(4)2 piece Cues
(1)Bridge Stick
(1)9 Ball Diamond
(1)Triangle
(1)One Six Cue Roman Rack
(1)Under rail brush
(1)9" Table Brush
(1)Plastic Tally Bottle
(1)Box of Blue Chalk
(2)Rubber Chalk Holders
(1)Tip Repair Kit
(1)8ft. Clear Table Cover
I get to customize it how I want and the whole 9 yards. What am I going to lose from buying that table?
It SOUNDS like a great deal. But all you are telling us is what come with the table. Make sure you do your homework and find out about the construction of the table. The slate, rails, frame all all that other good stuff so when you get it there won't be any surprises. One of the better ways you may want to go is go to a tournament and pick one of them up. A GCIV from a WPBA event is $2800. A complete Diamond package is $4500. Good luck and let us know how you make out.
N
nolimits
Guest
Haha, you NEED a table bad enough to sell your big screen and all your furniture? Sounds more like an addiction to me, but I too love the game so I have no room to talk. You are smart to get advice prior to just buying a table.
As far as which table to get, manufacturer names such as Brunswick or Olhausen don’t mean squat. Although both lines make a plethora of QUALITY tables, they also have their fair share of not so great tables. When you go with a Gold Crown, you know it will have excellent quality. So use extreme caution when thinking a table is great and worth the $$ because of a simple name.
Being in the market for a table myself, here are some of the basics I have learned:
1) You would like to have a minimum 1” thick slate. As you will notice, most the “good” tables come with this, but some of the cheaper ones try to give you ¾” or even 7/8” slate. Without physically measuring the slate, it is hard to tell a difference in 7/8” and 1”. Some of the better tables come with 1.25” slate. Your slate will likely be Italian, but some use Brazilian. Also, China is beginning to get into the mix and while the slate itself should be okay, some people are a little concerned rather they have the proper technology to properly hone the slate to the smoothness required. Personally I would try to find one that uses Italian or Brazilian.
2) It won’t matter much if you have great slate, and a crappy frame. Methods vary by each manufacturer, but one of the nicest frames I have seen is made by Kasson. They utilize 2 cross beams that run across the width of the table like everyone else. But they also utilize 2 cross beams that run the length of the table. The overall effect is a VERY sturdy table. Others simply don’t go that far, but you can tell a lot by looking at the table and the construction techniques used. For instance, glue and staples won’t be as strong as screws. I would suggest looking at places that sell cheaper tables and get an idea of how they construct their frames, then go look at a Gold Crown table and compare it to them. You will get a real good idea of what you need. The basic idea is the table will hold firm over centuries. Some tables will actually “sway” when you lean on them or bump them. That is bad, and is a result of a lesser quality frame. Also, I might note that some manufacturers construct their cabinets in a manner that CANNOT be taken apart. Only the legs and slate are removable. This isn’t a real big deal unless you have a tight space to move it into, and then you will realize the difference.
3) Things like cushions, rails, cloth & pockets (especially leather pockets) add up to real money. I think the best way to test the cushions is to simply play on the table and see how the ball responds. Also, cloth wear will vary by each USED table you look at. If you plan on putting on some Simonis (the best available) then it’s a null point, but if you can’t do it right away…take a close look at cloth and make sure it can last you until you can afford to replace it. Rails are easy to tell if they are good or not, but be sure and notice if the sights are intact and in good condition or not.
4) The more intricate carvings and fancy woodwork you have, the more you will pay. Plain & simple.
5) Accessories such as cues, balls, racks, brushes, etc. in my opinion add no “real” value to the table unless you have something of HIGH quality such as a set of Centennial balls or Meucci cue. Don’t fall for the trick of companies offering you their “beginner” kit. Sure it gets your started, and the quality may be decent…but it’s probably not going to be what you KEEP on your table (unless you want the kids to play with the lesser quality stuff). So yeah, it’s worth something, but don’t add a lot for it.
6) Moving expenses are generally around the $350 +/- mark to move and setup your table. This applies to either a new or used table, but the dealers that sell new stuff just generally tell you a price and tells you it includes the delivery and setup. Either way, you are paying for it, unless you do a “cash & carry” special. Now granted, you can do it yourself and save a few bucks. I’m gonna move my table myself when I buy it, but when it comes to the final setup I will call in the pros to have them finish it. That will cost around $150 or so. But worth it once you get the table to it’s final home. Sometimes people overlook this cost when buying a table, but it will sometimes bite you in the rear if you don’t get a good enough deal on a USED table.
7) For me, buying a table over eBay is not realistic unless I can find someone selling one that is in my locality so I can go put my hands on it and maybe play a few games. If you buy from someone located far away, you will need to pay to transport the table (or got get it yourself). Both are more expensive than trying to buy locally. Plus I just like the fact I can see if the leather pockets are scarred up, or the wood needs some repair or this or that. Not that I think eBay is bad, just this is an item that is not quite as “eBay friendly” as others. If you buy it that way….use caution.
8) Once you determine the table you want to buy, go check out a new one to see if you could buy it for the same price or reasonably close after you factor moving, setting up & repair costs of the used table. If you aren’t saving at least 25% over a new table that will come with a lifetime warranty, is it really a savings?
I’m sure some of the more experienced can provide a better breakdown, but these are the basics I have been learning as I’ve been looking. Maybe they will help you too.
Good luck,
NL
As far as which table to get, manufacturer names such as Brunswick or Olhausen don’t mean squat. Although both lines make a plethora of QUALITY tables, they also have their fair share of not so great tables. When you go with a Gold Crown, you know it will have excellent quality. So use extreme caution when thinking a table is great and worth the $$ because of a simple name.
Being in the market for a table myself, here are some of the basics I have learned:
1) You would like to have a minimum 1” thick slate. As you will notice, most the “good” tables come with this, but some of the cheaper ones try to give you ¾” or even 7/8” slate. Without physically measuring the slate, it is hard to tell a difference in 7/8” and 1”. Some of the better tables come with 1.25” slate. Your slate will likely be Italian, but some use Brazilian. Also, China is beginning to get into the mix and while the slate itself should be okay, some people are a little concerned rather they have the proper technology to properly hone the slate to the smoothness required. Personally I would try to find one that uses Italian or Brazilian.
2) It won’t matter much if you have great slate, and a crappy frame. Methods vary by each manufacturer, but one of the nicest frames I have seen is made by Kasson. They utilize 2 cross beams that run across the width of the table like everyone else. But they also utilize 2 cross beams that run the length of the table. The overall effect is a VERY sturdy table. Others simply don’t go that far, but you can tell a lot by looking at the table and the construction techniques used. For instance, glue and staples won’t be as strong as screws. I would suggest looking at places that sell cheaper tables and get an idea of how they construct their frames, then go look at a Gold Crown table and compare it to them. You will get a real good idea of what you need. The basic idea is the table will hold firm over centuries. Some tables will actually “sway” when you lean on them or bump them. That is bad, and is a result of a lesser quality frame. Also, I might note that some manufacturers construct their cabinets in a manner that CANNOT be taken apart. Only the legs and slate are removable. This isn’t a real big deal unless you have a tight space to move it into, and then you will realize the difference.
3) Things like cushions, rails, cloth & pockets (especially leather pockets) add up to real money. I think the best way to test the cushions is to simply play on the table and see how the ball responds. Also, cloth wear will vary by each USED table you look at. If you plan on putting on some Simonis (the best available) then it’s a null point, but if you can’t do it right away…take a close look at cloth and make sure it can last you until you can afford to replace it. Rails are easy to tell if they are good or not, but be sure and notice if the sights are intact and in good condition or not.
4) The more intricate carvings and fancy woodwork you have, the more you will pay. Plain & simple.
5) Accessories such as cues, balls, racks, brushes, etc. in my opinion add no “real” value to the table unless you have something of HIGH quality such as a set of Centennial balls or Meucci cue. Don’t fall for the trick of companies offering you their “beginner” kit. Sure it gets your started, and the quality may be decent…but it’s probably not going to be what you KEEP on your table (unless you want the kids to play with the lesser quality stuff). So yeah, it’s worth something, but don’t add a lot for it.
6) Moving expenses are generally around the $350 +/- mark to move and setup your table. This applies to either a new or used table, but the dealers that sell new stuff just generally tell you a price and tells you it includes the delivery and setup. Either way, you are paying for it, unless you do a “cash & carry” special. Now granted, you can do it yourself and save a few bucks. I’m gonna move my table myself when I buy it, but when it comes to the final setup I will call in the pros to have them finish it. That will cost around $150 or so. But worth it once you get the table to it’s final home. Sometimes people overlook this cost when buying a table, but it will sometimes bite you in the rear if you don’t get a good enough deal on a USED table.
7) For me, buying a table over eBay is not realistic unless I can find someone selling one that is in my locality so I can go put my hands on it and maybe play a few games. If you buy from someone located far away, you will need to pay to transport the table (or got get it yourself). Both are more expensive than trying to buy locally. Plus I just like the fact I can see if the leather pockets are scarred up, or the wood needs some repair or this or that. Not that I think eBay is bad, just this is an item that is not quite as “eBay friendly” as others. If you buy it that way….use caution.
8) Once you determine the table you want to buy, go check out a new one to see if you could buy it for the same price or reasonably close after you factor moving, setting up & repair costs of the used table. If you aren’t saving at least 25% over a new table that will come with a lifetime warranty, is it really a savings?
I’m sure some of the more experienced can provide a better breakdown, but these are the basics I have been learning as I’ve been looking. Maybe they will help you too.
Good luck,
NL
Jones, check your local papers. Find a good used COMMERCIAL type pool table like GC, Olhausen Championship or Diamond.
They're worth it.
I don't want to sound like a flag waiver but I won't give my dollar for imported tables.
They're worth it.
I don't want to sound like a flag waiver but I won't give my dollar for imported tables.
pooltablemech
Banned
ZBILLIARDS TABLES ARE JUNK! The slates aren't what they say....and the pockets are junk! You get what ya pay for......if your looking for a good toy for your kids.....it is fine. If your looking for a good table........NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for all the input, especially to you nolimits, that was a large and usefull response. Fortunatly I know more about table consrtuction that I do cue construction. Although I can't physically touch the table in question, the images of its construction, real or not TBD, seem of good quality. Hardwoods, no laminates, 22oz felt, leather pockets and a lifetime guarantee. I have a couple reservations in my decision. This is gonna be the centerpiece of my house so I don't really want a commercial looking piece in the house, I plan on making a custom wood top for it and a matching bar so it can be dual functional. (I like to throw dinner parties and the such) The accessories to me aren't a big deal because I will be using my own equipment, that is mainly so others dont have to use my gear. The only concerns that I have are the leveling system and the overall rigity of the unit, I will try and get those questions answereb before I buy. BTW, there is a local shop here selling similiar tables for twice the price, and I think that is mainly because they can't do the volume that online people do.
PS> JC, go ahead and wave that flag loud and proud. I buy the best of what I can afford, I don't discriminate. If an old Brunswick turns up in NC in a couple of months, then I'll prolly jump on it. That is why I went with Viattorre for my new cue.
PS> JC, go ahead and wave that flag loud and proud. I buy the best of what I can afford, I don't discriminate. If an old Brunswick turns up in NC in a couple of months, then I'll prolly jump on it. That is why I went with Viattorre for my new cue.
pooltablemech
Banned
When I say junk about the ZBilliards Imports what I mean is.................The slates they claim are precesion ground are NOT! Every one I have seen you can set the level on the slates and it will rock back and forth. Not everywhere but in every other spot maybe. So the precision ground claim is kinda sketchy!
The pocket irons they use are real cheap! They aren't always square or even the same height on both sides. They are also just painted what ever color comes with the table. I saw one pocket off so bad when I set the 2 side rails down on the table after connecting the pocket in between..........One rail was a half inch higher than the other!!!!! Sometimes after putting 3 rails together in a horseshoe on each end.........the 2 side rails will be toed in so far you can straighten them out like they should be to even get them to fit around the slate onto the table.
Oh.....but they look nice if ya get them together....lol!
The pocket irons they use are real cheap! They aren't always square or even the same height on both sides. They are also just painted what ever color comes with the table. I saw one pocket off so bad when I set the 2 side rails down on the table after connecting the pocket in between..........One rail was a half inch higher than the other!!!!! Sometimes after putting 3 rails together in a horseshoe on each end.........the 2 side rails will be toed in so far you can straighten them out like they should be to even get them to fit around the slate onto the table.
Oh.....but they look nice if ya get them together....lol!
N
nolimits
Guest
I just noticed the link that you provided for the table you found on eBay. Like some of the others I'm not a fan of imports, especially when you buy online & can't go down and scream & holler in someone's face if your table isn't what is promised. There is alot to be said for intimidation!!
But after seeing the picture, that is almost IDENTICAL to the tables I have been looking at. Check this out. The nice build quality table, Kasson, that I was talking about earlier...they make a model called The Bentley that can be had BRAND NEW for $1899, plus tax. That price is delivered to your house & professionally setup. Cash & carry is about $1699. Here is a direct link:
http://www.kassonpooltables.com/tablestc/ben.html
Also, Golden West makes a similar table called Virginia. Honestly, it's not as well built as the Kasson table, but around here I can get the GW table for about $1299 on a "cash & carry" special, or $100 cheaper than the Kasson table if you want it delivered and setup. Here is a link to it:
http://www.goldenwestbilliards.com/adtemplate.asp?invky=773418&catky=662349
Both tables are almost identical, but the Kasson is more "finished" out with a few more pieces of trim, and just overall built better. Hands down, it would be my choice. Of course, I recently found a used GW table (Virginia model) for $750 here locally and I am going to go pick it up. I'd prefer the Kasson, but don't have the extra $$ to spend. Still, keep that in mind when looking around. I look on bargaintrader.com for tables sometimes too. You can put in regions. I was looking the other day, and there are a plethora...some may be closer to you.
And personally if I could get the same style of table from a local supplier I would MUCH rather do that than go through eBay and get an import. Sorry, but I do bleed red, white & blue and I have alot of pride when it comes to that. But aside from that fact, I really haven't heard anyone saying they were impressed with their import tables...just that they got a good price on them. To me that says alot...especially since a good pool table these days will last you the rest of your life, unless you do something stupid to destroy it or decide to replace it with a different one.
Again, just another 2 cents. Guess I'm almost up to a nickel now so I'll keep the pie hole shot.
Take care,
NL
But after seeing the picture, that is almost IDENTICAL to the tables I have been looking at. Check this out. The nice build quality table, Kasson, that I was talking about earlier...they make a model called The Bentley that can be had BRAND NEW for $1899, plus tax. That price is delivered to your house & professionally setup. Cash & carry is about $1699. Here is a direct link:
http://www.kassonpooltables.com/tablestc/ben.html
Also, Golden West makes a similar table called Virginia. Honestly, it's not as well built as the Kasson table, but around here I can get the GW table for about $1299 on a "cash & carry" special, or $100 cheaper than the Kasson table if you want it delivered and setup. Here is a link to it:
http://www.goldenwestbilliards.com/adtemplate.asp?invky=773418&catky=662349
Both tables are almost identical, but the Kasson is more "finished" out with a few more pieces of trim, and just overall built better. Hands down, it would be my choice. Of course, I recently found a used GW table (Virginia model) for $750 here locally and I am going to go pick it up. I'd prefer the Kasson, but don't have the extra $$ to spend. Still, keep that in mind when looking around. I look on bargaintrader.com for tables sometimes too. You can put in regions. I was looking the other day, and there are a plethora...some may be closer to you.
And personally if I could get the same style of table from a local supplier I would MUCH rather do that than go through eBay and get an import. Sorry, but I do bleed red, white & blue and I have alot of pride when it comes to that. But aside from that fact, I really haven't heard anyone saying they were impressed with their import tables...just that they got a good price on them. To me that says alot...especially since a good pool table these days will last you the rest of your life, unless you do something stupid to destroy it or decide to replace it with a different one.
Again, just another 2 cents. Guess I'm almost up to a nickel now so I'll keep the pie hole shot.
Take care,
NL
I find that so many of the "fancier" tables with the turned legs, detailed aprons and tassled pockets are more furniture than pool table. They have those skinny, narrow rails that everyone hates but doesn't always notice. Go for a table with a nice, wide rail - like around 7" and look for pockets that are as flush as possible with the rails. As well, see if you can take a look at a Diamond and a Gold Crown. While they are out of your price range, they'll give you a reference point for what the best tables should look and be built like.
Oh, and the hardest thing of all - be patient!
Oh, and the hardest thing of all - be patient!
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pooltablemech
Banned
Just remember there is a 9 year old kid in a 3rd world country that helped make that import! lol...........Making a nickle an hour!
Now if Brunswick would quit using the Brazilian 9 year olds to build their tables.....maybe their name could get the credit it use to deserve............LOL!
USA! USA!
Now if Brunswick would quit using the Brazilian 9 year olds to build their tables.....maybe their name could get the credit it use to deserve............LOL!
USA! USA!
Thanks guys, and thanks for the links nolimits, my opinions are swaying. I will be doing some more research now that I have something to go off of.
hey NL, are those tables available in 9FT?
Make sure to check out my Buddy Jeff's site @ http://www.used-pooltable.com
New and used tables in every state!
New and used tables in every state!
N
nolimits
Guest
Buddha Jones said:
Yeup, but the prices will be a little different. The prices I told you about were the ones they quoted when I was looking, and I was interested in 8' tables. I'd expect to add about $200 or so for the bigger tables.
Has anyone any knowledge of the "Connelly" tables?
I was thinking of the "prescott" model.
http://www.connellybilliards.com/products/plateau/default.asp#Prescott
They have some unique four bolt rail system... but is this any good?
I was thinking of the "prescott" model.
http://www.connellybilliards.com/products/plateau/default.asp#Prescott
They have some unique four bolt rail system... but is this any good?
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