ICA Hall of Fame Results

cueman

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Bert Schrager and Burton Spain have both been elected into the International Cuemakers Association Hall of Fame.

BERT SCHRAGER started building cues in the 1960’s and is credited with helping many up and coming cuemakers. We won't list names, but it would be a who's who list of today’s higher end smaller cuemakers who spent time in Bert's shop. Bert has always been very helpful to the beginning cuemakers and that is one thing the ICA stands for. Bert got his start in cuemaking from his close friend Harvey Martin who is a ICA Hall of Fame member. Bert was one of the earlier cuemakers to break into the high end cue market and one of the first few to crack open the Japanese market. Many famous people have had Bert build cues for them. He never went the CNC route and has produced some very high end cues with just a pantograph. He is credited with popularizing the 6 point cue design. Today at 80 years old he is still at his labor of love: Building Cues.


BURTON SPAIN was elected in the deceased cuemakers group. Burton started building cues in 1965. Burton built great cues using full splice methods that often combined standard full slice over the top of a butterfly full splice that was usually covered by the wrap. This allowed him to use any combination of woods without producing too heavy or too light of a cue. His method produced the most warp resistant butts around. The first thing that comes to most peoples minds when they hear the name Burton Spain is, "Point Blanks". When cuemakers saw that Burton was making his own full splice point blanks they lined up to buy them from him. He made them for Frank Paradise, Gordon Hart, Craig Peterson and George Balabushka just to name a few. He was part of a club called Mensa that only allows people who have IQ's in the very top of the population. Before he passed away in 1994 he trained and sold his business to Joel Hercek, who continues making cues with the same full splice method Burton made famous.

2-10-2005

www.internationalcuemakers.com
 
Yes, well done, did not know Burton was in mensa, very informative information. Guess that explains some of his talent. I don't blame the other guys for using his blanks, they just had a good eye for a great product IMO, and were smart enough to use them in there cues. I understand some think that is cue assembly, but I think they just used the best available to build good cues. For that I think those guys were pretty smart theirselves, and seems as if time has proven that. Look at what one of George's cues goes for now days.
 
Gus Szamboti also used blanks made by Burton Spain too. I don't think buying quality components detracts at all from the value of a cue, in fact I think it adds to it. I don't have the necessary space or equipment to make any of metal components as well as the company I buy from. If they specialize in cutting metal, how could I make it as well??? I specialize in making cues.
Love to buy some blanks from Joel Hercek, unfortunaltely he only makes them for his own cues anymore.

Anyone own a copy of, "Making Blanks". It's a story about the life of Burton Spain and some of his philosphies behind the full-splice. I've heard that it doesn't explain how to do the full-splice but that doesn't matter. I still would like to read it someday.
Mike
 
cueman said:
Bert Schrager and Burton Spain have both been elected into the International Cuemakers Association Hall of Fame.
This seems to be the year of the Berts, er a Burts. Is next year going to be the year of the Ernies, Martinez & Gutierrez? ;) Sorry about the joke, I could not help it. :) They are a couple of real good choices.

Tracy
 
Pancerny said:
Gus Szamboti also used blanks made by Burton Spain too. I don't think buying quality components detracts at all from the value of a cue, in fact I think it adds to it. I don't have the necessary space or equipment to make any of metal components as well as the company I buy from. If they specialize in cutting metal, how could I make it as well??? I specialize in making cues.
Love to buy some blanks from Joel Hercek, unfortunaltely he only makes them for his own cues anymore.

Anyone own a copy of, "Making Blanks". It's a story about the life of Burton Spain and some of his philosphies behind the full-splice. I've heard that it doesn't explain how to do the full-splice but that doesn't matter. I still would like to read it someday.
Mike
Joel emailed us with some other info about Burton and let us know that Gus Szamboti never bought any blanks from Burton. I used to buy blanks from Burton and am almost finished with a cue that will commemorate his Hall of Fame induction that is made out of one of his blanks I have had for maybe 12 years.
Chris
www.hightowercues.com
 
My apologies, I had heard from 2 sources that I thought relaible that Gus had bought blanks from Spain...I guess Joel would know. Did Gus make his own??? Anyone know??
Mike
 
Pancerny said:
My apologies, I had heard from 2 sources that I thought relaible that Gus had bought blanks from Spain...I guess Joel would know. Did Gus make his own??? Anyone know??
Mike
Gus made his own for the most part, but Bob Meucci says he made some for Gus at one time. Joel said it is written here and there that Burton built some for Gus, but that it was not true. Some of the info we got from the Blue Book about Burton was not true either. Mensa accepts top 2% instead of top 1/10 of 1% as it said. So our press release had some errors. :(
Chris
www.internationalcuemakers.com
 
Pancerny said:
Gus Szamboti also used blanks made by Burton Spain too. I don't think buying quality components detracts at all from the value of a cue, in fact I think it adds to it. I don't have the necessary space or equipment to make any of metal components as well as the company I buy from. If they specialize in cutting metal, how could I make it as well??? I specialize in making cues.
Love to buy some blanks from Joel Hercek, unfortunaltely he only makes them for his own cues anymore.

Anyone own a copy of, "Making Blanks". It's a story about the life of Burton Spain and some of his philosphies behind the full-splice. I've heard that it doesn't explain how to do the full-splice but that doesn't matter. I still would like to read it someday.
Mike

I doubt Gus bought blanks from anybody. Balabushka bought his blanks. I do believe a cue maker should build most all of the important parts of their cues or they are not cue makers, just assemblers. Sorry that is what I believe. Not that there will be anything wrong with the cues but they did not really build them, just put the parts together. Can you submit a cue for acceptance to the ACA that is built with someone else's parts?
 
macguy said:
I doubt Gus bought blanks from anybody. Balabushka bought his blanks. I do believe a cue maker should build most all of the important parts of their cues or they are not cue makers, just assemblers. Sorry that is what I believe. Not that there will be anything wrong with the cues but they did not really build them, just put the parts together. Can you submit a cue for acceptance to the ACA that is built with someone else's parts?
I agree.
I have Spain's Recollections book. I think it's a little dated.
Advances in epoxy has gone a long way since he wrote that book. Not to mention threading and doweling systems.
Spain definitely had a strong disdain for short-splice or sectional cues.
I really don't know if Spain would have changed his mind if he were around today.
But, of course he was a genius and deserved a Hall of Fame status with BCA eons ago already imo. I cannot believe BCA doesn't recognize the pioneers in cueamaking or tablemaking for that matter much at all.
 
I agree about making the important parts...must be done by the cuemaker. I've heard that Ray Schuler was a genius too, don't think he belonged to Mensa though. For a long time, he didn't believe that points ahd any functional purpose in a cue and only started doing it in the later years because of so much pressure to have points in a cue...all of the Schuler cues that I have seen have inlayed points. Not sure how true any of this is, much less sure than I was about Gus buying blanks from Spain.
Mike
 
macguy said:
I doubt Gus bought blanks from anybody. Balabushka bought his blanks. I do believe a cue maker should build most all of the important parts of their cues or they are not cue makers, just assemblers. Sorry that is what I believe. Not that there will be anything wrong with the cues but they did not really build them, just put the parts together. Can you submit a cue for acceptance to the ACA that is built with someone else's parts?
If a man has helpers in his shop that do certain functions for him, would he not still be a cuemaker? Not much difference than farming out certain parts of your cue building. It is just having helpers. Gus did indeed buy some blanks early on as did Balabushka, Rambo, Paradise, Gina Cue and almost every other cuemaker. If you have ever built a sneaky pete or used a bar cue butt for the base of a cue then you fall into that category. I have built many cues totally from scratch and I have built many using blanks. Either way is fine with me. I am building one right now with a Burton Spain blank. But the subject here is Burton Spain and Bert Schrager getting into the International Cuemakers Hall of Fame.
Chris
www.internationalcuemakers.com
 
JoeyInCali said:
I agree.
I have Spain's Recollections book. I think it's a little dated.
Advances in epoxy has gone a long way since he wrote that book. Not to mention threading and doweling systems.
Spain definitely had a strong disdain for short-splice or sectional cues.
I really don't know if Spain would have changed his mind if he were around today.
But, of course he was a genius and deserved a Hall of Fame status with BCA eons ago already imo. I cannot believe BCA doesn't recognize the pioneers in cueamaking or tablemaking for that matter much at all.

i dont think he would have changed his mind, cause it would have to pass his standing on it test. what do you think?
 
merylane said:
i dont think he would have changed his mind, cause it would have to pass his standing on it test. what do you think?
I don't know. Full-splice had a huge advantage over short-splice then because it had more gluing surface and buzzing problems were virtually eliminated.
Now, with epoxy stronger than wood itself, and it's impact resistance makes it virtually impossible to break in a cue. If someone showed Spain and sectional cue now that all wooden components and he could test it for months and if it did not rattle, I don't know what he'd think.
 
JoeyInCali said:
I don't know. Full-splice had a huge advantage over short-splice then because it had more gluing surface and buzzing problems were virtually eliminated.
Now, with epoxy stronger than wood itself, and it's impact resistance makes it virtually impossible to break in a cue. If someone showed Spain and sectional cue now that all wooden components and he could test it for months and if it did not rattle, I don't know what he'd think.

i woner who would be willing to let him stand on it. would you let him stand on yours?

i dont know if you know but at the shows burt would support his blanks on each end and stand on the middle suspended in air.
 
JoeyInCali said:
I don't know. Full-splice had a huge advantage over short-splice then because it had more gluing surface and buzzing problems were virtually eliminated.
Now, with epoxy stronger than wood itself, and it's impact resistance makes it virtually impossible to break in a cue. If someone showed Spain and sectional cue now that all wooden components and he could test it for months and if it did not rattle, I don't know what he'd think.

also what eopoxy are you using that wasnt available 10 yrs ago?
im sure alot of people would like to know somthing newer and stronger.
thanks.
 
I aggree, What's the difference in using a blank someone built, and a plain forearm with no points. A plain jane is built from scratch, but is assembled the same as using a blank from someone else. atleast with a short splice that is, the cue is still being built by that cuemaker, correct? even a fullsplice for that part, only one joint has been made by another. If someone has a good product, and is willing to share, what's wrong with giving the person using the cue the best possible product within their meens, even if It's a blank from another. Like all I'm sure, I would love to have the best jigs, and methods for the type of any point design I would like to do at any given time, with a reasonable amount of time in building them, and hope one day I will, but until then I will do my best to build them. If i am doing a certain kind of point that may not be my specialty at the time or am not set up to run any out at the time, I see nothing wrong with giving the customer the best materials available to me at the time. alot of guys might even do their own, but have their equipment broke down at the time, therefore making more sense to pick some up for the time being, until they are able to run their own again. My understanding of an assembly is something being glued, screwed, nailed, welded, etc. from premilled, preformed, or prebuilt for assembly. that is usually far from the case even using a blank, unless they have had the tenons cut, been bored ,and threaded, with matching tapers already, and joints, installed, butt sleeve, and inlay work, linen, leather, finish, etc., etc, and so on for him already. I don't know about others, but not that simple for me. IMO the shortsplice is a no brainer atleast, as it's really just another piece of wood being used for a forearm, and is built the same way as a plain forearm cue. Now trying to take credit for building the blank that someone else made would be a whole nother thing. I for one would never do that.
I would always prefer to do It all myself, and will for the most part when that is my goal, even If I have to keep It simple, but know that trying new products or materials can have It's rewards, and to me most blanks are just materials, and some are better then others. Variety never hurts, that's how good quality is discovered IMO. Like I said Just my take, does not make me correct, just the way I look at It. Greg
 
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