Identifying Rail Cushions? Klematch? For 9 ball?

[PickeringRC]

Hi everyone , my current table doesn’t play as close to my local’s as I would like (seems the installer sold and installed a fake Simonis…), and am now curious if the rails are actually what I ordered back in the day or not… (regardless of if it was the right decision or not)

Supposedly the premium option available for this table at the time was a Klematch, but the color doesn’t seem consistent with the brand?

The table plays quite slow, I am sure the cloth is a good part, but curious if changing the rails would also be an improvement or not…

Any ideas what the rails are, and if worth changing? Thanks!

 

[Hard Knock Cues]

I'll take a stab here from just the one picture.

I'm not familiar with any green cushions except old Monarch.if you pull back the cloth in the middle there might be a logo.

Most cloth will have some identification on the factory edge going down one side of the table underneath the rail. You should check that to see what cloth it is.

Is that a MDF rail or wood? It's a little hard to tell from the picture.

The split at the screw hole is concerning also,

Does the cushion pull off the rail easily, it almost looks as though it might not be glued well.

Was there even a cushion facing at the end?

What brand of table?

 

[rexus31]

Too little info to help you out. Tables speed is soooo much more than just cloth.

What kind of table and playing surface?
What cushions (brand and profile)?
Are the cushions properly installed?
What's the nose height of the cushion?

 

[garczar]

Too little info to help you out. Tables speed is soooo much more than just cloth.

What kind of table and playing surface?
What cushions (brand and profile)?
Are the cushions properly installed?
What's the nose height of the cushion?

The op needs more info to get an answer no doubt. Never seen green cushions. Did a quik search and found some cheap taiwanese cushions that same color. look like junk.

 

[rexus31]

The op needs more info to get an answer no doubt. Never seen green cushions. Did a quik search and found some cheap taiwanese cushions that same color. look like junk.

Unless he got a different table, it's a no name 7'. See post #3 in the thread linked below.

P

Post in thread 'Understanding which Simonis cloth for next re-cover'

Mar 7, 2022

Thanks for the replies guys.

whats your question?

My question really is how do I reach the "same" conclusion that rexus31 has done:

IMO, 760 is too fast for a bar table.

Or put another way, if most people seem to be looking at either 860 or 860HR (both bar tables as Rexus31 has hinted to, and also pro and competition tables), why is 760 still available. Even on both Simonis websites, it doesn't hint as to when to choose which...
Surely the continued existence of 760 is due to it being more favourable over the 860's in certain scenarios, so roughly speaking, what kind of...

• PickeringRC

• 

 

[PickeringRC]

Thanks for that!

I have removed the cloth from the rest of the rail, and it does not seem to show any branding on any of the visible edges

I have the offcuts from the cloth, was installed 2021, no idea if the markings are in line with an original or a fake. Whichever the case it does seem it was installed upside down (furry is on the playing surface!)

Rail seems to be MDF with a veneer wrap on the visible sides.

Cushion does not pull off the edges, in that respect it seems firm in place.

No cushion facing, just the cloth and directly underneath was the rubber as per the photo (single piece)

Table is this one, approximately 8ft slate bed pool/dining table:

MESA DE BILLAR ALTEA - ELBILLAR.ES

Desde 1.890 €, el modelo Altea es una mesa de billar de estilo moderno fabricado en acero y madera natural. Disponible en varias medidas y tipos de juego (Americano, Carambola, Snooker o transformable en dos juegos) con acabados personalizables de los cuales destaca la posibilidad...

elbillar.es

 

[PickeringRC]

More info on the rails:

Profile, please see pics, no idea how to confirm myself

Height 32-33mm
Depth 26mm

Seemingly well attached

Nose 37-38mm

In contrast to the rails at my local, these “feel” (when squeezing by hand) less flexible

Thanks everyone!

 

[rexus31]

To put it kindly, that is not a good table. At all. It doesn't matter what you do, your table is never going to play anywhere near what a commercial table in a pool hall plays like.

I've never seen a table without pocket facings; not a good thing.

 

[Hard Knock Cues]

If you want to play serious pool at home, it might be time to invest in a better table.

 

[garczar]

To put it kindly, that is not a good table. At all. It doesn't matter what you do, your table is never going to play anywhere near what a commercial table in a pool hall plays like.

I've never seen a table without pocket facings; not a good thing.

That table is furniture/eye candy first and foremost. How it plays was way down the list of whoever made it.

 

[bradsh98]

First and foremost, I actually work on pool tables. Every day of the week, in fact. I have worked on all kinds: from very high-end furniture-grade, to high-end tournament-grade, to low-grade firewood... That said, I'm sure that you realize that it is not a tournament-grade table. Though, I'm sure that you also realize that it should play much better than what it has.

It's obvious from the first photo posted, that the cloth is upside-down.... This is why the table plays slow.

Since the table is a 7', you really don't want to go any faster than Simonis 860/860HR. If you are looking to save a few bucks, try Andy 600 Club or CPBA. Just make sure that it is installed correctly, this time.

It appears as though the cushions are installed with a reasonable level of skill and precision. Strange that the installer would not have added facings, unless he was trying to preserve a particular pocket dimension... From looking at the photo on the Sales website, it seems that the factory pocket openings are very small. This is somewhat common for manufacturers who build tables for show, and not quality play. Regardless, a facing is necessary, to preserve the MDF from ball strikes.

In regards to the cushions.... They don't match the color or profile of Klematch. Also, Klematch cushions would have visible branding. However, despite not being black, the profile and design (mold and canvas) seems to match another very popular Taiwanese cushion, which is used by Diamond Billiard Products, on their 7' and 8' tables. I wouldn't be surprised if they are essentially the same cushion, just of a different color. That said, I would guess that these cushions should produce a reasonable level of play. I didn't see a measurement for the rail thickness, but it looks to be approximately 1 3/4" (44.5 mm), so the nose height is correct for a K55 cushion. The rails being made of MDF doesn't matter. Of course the table isn't going to play as well as a hardwood rail construction. Though, it could be made to play reasonably well.

 

[Hard Knock Cues]

First and foremost, I actually work on pool tables. Every day of the week, in fact. I have worked on all kinds: from very high-end furniture-grade, to high-end tournament-grade, to low-grade firewood... That said, I'm sure that you realize that it is not a tournament-grade table. Though, I'm sure that you also realize that it should play much better than what it has.

It's obvious from the first photo posted, that the cloth is upside-down.... This is why the table plays slow.

Since the table is a 7', you really don't want to go any faster than Simonis 860/860HR. If you are looking to save a few bucks, try Andy 600 Club or CPBA. Just make sure that it is installed correctly, this time.

It appears as though the cushions are installed with a reasonable level of skill and precision. Strange that the installer would not have added facings, unless he was trying to preserve a particular pocket dimension... From looking at the photo on the Sales website, it seems that the factory pocket openings are very small. This is somewhat common for manufacturers who build tables for show, and not quality play. Regardless, a facing is necessary, to preserve the MDF from ball strikes.

In regards to the cushions.... They don't match the color or profile of Klematch. Also, Klematch cushions would have visible branding. However, despite not being black, the profile and design (mold and canvas) seems to match another very popular Taiwanese cushion, which is used by Diamond Billiard Products, on their 7' and 8' tables. I wouldn't be surprised if they are essentially the same cushion, just of a different color. That said, I would guess that these cushions should produce a reasonable level of play. I didn't see a measurement for the rail thickness, but it looks to be approximately 1 3/4" (44.5 mm), so the nose height is correct for a K55 cushion. The rails being made of MDF doesn't matter. Of course the table isn't going to play as well as a hardwood rail construction. Though, it could be made to play reasonably well.

Well stated, I'm not doing tables everyday but I should have spotted the cloth was upside-down.

Confession: I did that on the very first table I rebuilt. Luckily it was my table I set up in my neighbor's basement. The good thing was when I sold the table a couple years later I was able to flip the cloth and it was practically like new.
I never did that again

 

[rexus31]

Towards the end, Hard Times Bellflower would flip the cloth over on the tables on the non tournament side. It was like playing on corduroy.

 

[PickeringRC]

Thank you all for your input — much appreciated.


Yes, I was aware at the time of purchase that this table was a compromise between a pool table and a piece of furniture, and I was admittedly optimistic. Following the installation issues, it became clear that it is far from what one would call a professional pool table, so I’m under no false illusions there.


I have considered replacing it; however, due to space constraints it must function both as a pool table and as our main dining table. Either I’m looking in the wrong places, or there simply aren’t many truly good professional-grade pool tables that also work well as a sit-down dining table. Everything I’ve found so far seems broadly similar to what I already have — though I’d be very interested to hear any genuine alternatives if they exist.


Until then, the goal is to get this table performing as well as it reasonably can, within its limitations.


Geoff — a special thank you for the detailed feedback. Rail thickness measures around 43 mm, which is roughly in line with your estimate. My local club is having their tables re-clothed at the end of the month, and the same fitter will be doing this table as well. They currently use CPBA cloth, and the plan is to re-install the same cloth both at the club and at home too (hopefully with someone who knows which way is up this time!).


The pockets are indeed very tight — frustratingly so. Anything short of a clean centre hit tends to rattle between the jaws and stay up. At present, there is no cushion facing installed. Am I correct in thinking that both the pocket shape and the missing facings can be addressed fairly easily by the installer when the cloth is changed? Is there anything specific I should request, or anything I should be careful about?


Comparing it to my local club tables, the cloth certainly feels slow, but the rails seem to be the bigger issue in terms of ball speed. I’m sure the upside-down cloth doesn’t help, but the rails appear to kill the ball far more than expected. Is there any test I can do (or share results from) to determine whether the rubber rails are too hard and would benefit from being replaced? Or could this behaviour realistically be explained purely by the incorrect cloth installation?


The rubber itself feels noticeably harder than the more flexible cushions at my local club. If changing the rails is advisable, is there any particular brand or model that works best on MDF-rail tables, or would any reputable K55-profile cushion rubber be suitable?


Thanks again for all the help and insight — it’s been extremely useful.