Improving by playing (much) better players

Robbie

Robbie

kidsmooth
Silver Member
I play on a CPA (canadian APA) team, and we are getting ready for regionals. I am a SL7/SL9. A player on my team who is an SL3/SL4 wants to practice by playing practice sessions with me. My advice was for her to play one of the SL4 - SL5s on the team that are a little better than she is, and I would be there to help both of them out as much as needed. Her argument is that she has read many pool articles that say in order to get better, you should play better players.

Without trying to sound arrogant, when we play, she hardly shoots. I just dont think this is the ideal way to practice. But I know what she is saying. I believe though, that playing players that are a little better than you can help you improve, and can also teach you how to win much faster.

Any thoughts?
 
Robbie said:
I play on a CPA (canadian APA) team, and we are getting ready for regionals. I am a SL7/SL9. A player on my team who is an SL3/SL4 wants to practice by playing practice sessions with me. My advice was for her to play one of the SL4 - SL5s on the team that are a little better than she is, and I would be there to help both of them out as much as needed. Her argument is that she has read many pool articles that say in order to get better, you should play better players.

Without trying to sound arrogant, when we play, she hardly shoots. I just dont think this is the ideal way to practice. But I know what she is saying. I believe though, that playing players that are a little better than you can help you improve, and can also teach you how to win much faster.

Any thoughts?
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I'm not an instructor or anything and this is my first time in the section of the forum, not sure if I'm suppose to be posting in here or not.

But what I think is that she is right she should be playing someone that knows what they are doing. If she plays someone that is a little better then her and starts picking up on there bad habits then that would be very bad for her and could set her back. You being the level shooter you are it would be a lot better for her to learn from and watch shoot. JMO

No matter your skill level playing/learning from the best will be the best for you. I play as a skill level 7 in the apa (8ball) and I don't go to a skill level 7 for lessons cause he may be a little better then me.
 
I hear what youre saying, but Im not talking about lessons. Im talking about practice sessions. I think there is something to learning how to win. How do you learn (in 8ball) the best way to play shape on the 8ball on a crowded table, when you never get that far? I try to give lessons to all the lower SLs on my team.

Lessons are one thing, and I would agree with you there. But I also think there is something to be said for learning to win consistently. If you were an SL3, how long do you think it would take, if you were to only play practice sessions with an SL7, before you were beating him/her consistently? Or playing close to even with them at least.

It may be short term thinking, but I think its a good idea to practice against players closer to the SL you will face in league, if you want to be able to win more often.
 
if she wants to learn, she will learn better by playing you, even if she just sits there and watches you. she can gain knowledge of how to runout a table and how to select shots and sets better.

i'm sure she plays other people too, where she can use that knowledge from your sessions and put it into play.

if she ONLY plays you and plays completely no other pool otherwise it would be different.
 
I agree with you Robbie. She can't fix her mistake if she doesnt make one. By shooting you she wont get that opportunity to learn from her mistakes. If she plays you she might give up on shots to easily.
 
I think you should play the best players you can. If she is willing to sit there and watch you play while she waits for a turn, you should not discourage it. It shows that she is willing to put her ego aside and try to do what it takes to improve! A lot of players will only play with people they know they can beat to satisfy their ego.

I think she has the mindset of a good student which is required to get better. That being said,if she does nothing more than pay close attention while you are shooting, she will learn a good amount. If you really want to help her, you can kind of walk her through it as you are playing. Let her know why you are making the choices you are. Like " I am going to go for this bank in the side, instead of the easy shot in the corner because if I make it, I will be set up to win. If I miss it I will leave you safe. I need the ball in the corner to get my shape on the 8." etc.

One thing that I think is a great idea is to have a handicap. A great one when there is a large difference in skill level is to give her ball in hand at the beginning of every turn. There are great benefits to this. 1 it makes you play tougher instead of getting lazy. 2 it makes you focus on being more aggressive and going for even very low percentage shots instead of playing the easy safe( you'll be suprised at some of the racks you will get out on that you would never have dreamed of going for!). 3 - it makes her start with an easy shot and have to form a plan every time instead of just shooting the first ball she sees. Pattern play and planning ahead will come MUCH faster this way. Like you said, she won't get much of a chance to really get going if she is kicking at balls, and never has a good open shot.

In this way the time is valuable and rewarding for both of you. Play a race for a drink or a dollar, etc. Keep it friendly, but keep score. Give her games on the wire if necessary to make it more even. I used to do this with 9 ball and it worked very well.



Jw
 
Robbie,
You have the right idea. You are getting ready for the regionals. Let her practice in a situation she is likely to find herself in when that happens, such as playing another 4 or 5. Yes, you should be there to work with both of them as far as shot selection, safety play, etc. You can impart knowledge, but sparring sessions are designed to simulate competitive situations. She isn't going to be competitive against you.
Steve
 
Robbie said:
I hear what youre saying, but Im not talking about lessons. Im talking about practice sessions. I think there is something to learning how to win. How do you learn (in 8ball) the best way to play shape on the 8ball on a crowded table, when you never get that far? I try to give lessons to all the lower SLs on my team.

Lessons are one thing, and I would agree with you there. But I also think there is something to be said for learning to win consistently. If you were an SL3, how long do you think it would take, if you were to only play practice sessions with an SL7, before you were beating him/her consistently? Or playing close to even with them at least.

It may be short term thinking, but I think its a good idea to practice against players closer to the SL you will face in league, if you want to be able to win more often.
Click to expand...


The problem here is I think you are right, and I think the others are right too ;-) Just for different reasons.

I think, as you are saying, it's good to spend a lot of time playing opponents a little better than you--at a level where their average play matches your best level of play (such that every now and again you can keep up with them for a whole session.

Here is the reason: You will learn fast if your mistakes are punished and your successes are rewarded. This doesn't happen very well against a really strong opponent.

For instance, if you're just learning to play safe, hooking your opponent AT ALL is a good thing that should be rewarded. Against an opponent a bit above your speed, it probably IS rewarded. A strong opponent will kick one rail, hit the right side of the ball, and leave you tough.

That's a later lesson: that you need to put him in jail ;-)
 
PoolPro

One thing that I think is a great idea is to have a handicap. A great one when there is a large difference in skill level is to give her ball in hand at the beginning of every turn. There are great benefits to this. 1 it makes you play tougher instead of getting lazy. 2 it makes you focus on being more aggressive and going for even very low percentage shots instead of playing the easy safe( you'll be suprised at some of the racks you will get out on that you would never have dreamed of going for!). 3 - it makes her start with an easy shot and have to form a plan every time instead of just shooting the first ball she sees. Pattern play and planning ahead will come MUCH faster this way. Like you said, she won't get much of a chance to really get going if she is kicking at balls, and never has a good open shot.

In this way the time is valuable and rewarding for both of you.


I think this is a fantastic idea. Change the game! This game will keep you interested as well.

As far as playing much better players is concerned I think it depends on the personality of the lesser player. If they can keep the the right mind set that this is a lesson, and not worry about losing all the time and can concentrate on learning shots and learning how to concentrate then it's great. If losing gets them down it can mess with the mental side and may hinder their progress. We all know how important the mental is. Changing the game as above can benefit both of you. As is said it will force you to take risky shots. There's where you learn new stuff by stretching you limits.

Here's another game I used to play when I used to play pocket games. and was useful for a variety of reasons. CB control, Speed Control, Pocketing with English, ..... Plus it simply got me in stroke.
We called it Bastard Billiards.

Only 3 balls are on the table 1,2 & 3 plus the CB. Place the 1 ball on the Foot Spot, 2 ball on the Center Spot, 3 ball on the Head Spot. Every shot you must have a Carom. A carom is worth 1 point. If you pocket a ball along with the required carom you get that balls number in points. Pocketed balls are re-spotted on their designated spot during a run. If you scratch during a run you lose all points of that run. Play to whatever number of points you want. 50 is a good start for a decent game. It's possible to run out but still requires some skill.
 
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