Improving from 3rd to 1st place winner/8 Ball?

Billy_Bob

Billy_Bob

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It seems fairly straight forward [what to do] to gain the skills necessary to win 1st place in a very small local tournament or gain the skills needed to win 3rd place in a larger local tournament.

At this level you're playing pretty good.

But what separates the 1st place winners from the 3rd place winners?

What can a 3rd place winner do to improve?

It seems like more; draw, follow, position, etc. shot practice will not do the trick. You are making your shots, getting good position, etc., but the 1st place winner *always* seems to be able to leave the other player with no shot whatsoever or perhaps has a better strategy. Maybe makes better decisions on what to shoot when.

So how exactly would you learn/practice to get beyond being a 3rd place winner?
 
Billy_Bob said:
It seems fairly straight forward [what to do] to gain the skills necessary to win 1st place in a very small local tournament or gain the skills needed to win 3rd place in a larger local tournament.

At this level you're playing pretty good.

But what separates the 1st place winners from the 3rd place winners?

What can a 3rd place winner do to improve?

It seems like more; draw, follow, position, etc. shot practice will not do the trick. You are making your shots, getting good position, etc., but the 1st place winner *always* seems to be able to leave the other player with no shot whatsoever or perhaps has a better strategy. Maybe makes better decisions on what to shoot when.

So how exactly would you learn/practice to get beyond being a 3rd place winner?
Click to expand...

Your question assumes you have experience getting too third but fail to get first more often than not. It seems now days that if you can play your way to the top four positions in a field of 16 in any local event is a sign of accomplishment and should be complemented. More to your question I would ask another question:When you know you have gotten to the money, reached the final four, or otherwise proved your game do your let the air out of your ballon? Are you personally satisfidy with your finish? In other words, has third become an exceptable goal? Your not saying your game is not good enough to finish higher but perhaps third has silently become exceptable to you and you fail to grind it out in those final matches. JAT...
 
I go to 2 fairly large (80 players) and 1 large (200+ players) 8 ball tournaments every year. One of the things that surprise me every time is the vary few people that stay around to watch the finish. I always do. Since I alway stick around, I have seen and I think can draw some conclusions to your question. In these larger tournaments at the top (final 6-12 or so) they are all tough, vary tough. As in other big break games (as opposed to 14.1, or one-pocket), the break seems to be one of the biggest determining factors. With these guys, if they make a ball on the break and get a descent spread, they are out. There is no missing. So I would say the answer to your question is your break.
 
CaptainJR said:
I go to 2 fairly large (80 players) and 1 large (200+ players) 8 ball tournaments every year. One of the things that surprise me every time is the vary few people that stay around to watch the finish. I always do. Since I alway stick around, I have seen and I think can draw some conclusions to your question. In these larger tournaments at the top (final 6-12 or so) they are all tough, vary tough. As in other big break games (as opposed to 14.1, or one-pocket), the break seems to be one of the biggest determining factors. With these guys, if they make a ball on the break and get a descent spread, they are out. There is no missing. So I would say the answer to your question is your break.
Click to expand...

How do you improve your break shot?

When I answered your question with 'your break', I started to wonder how you could improve your break shot. I think I'll start a thread on this.
 
If it is the same 2-3 people in first place all the time then it is simply because they are better players. More often than not the better players dominate the top 3 places. When there are 4-5 players who enter a tournament who play 2-3 balls better than the rest of the tournament it is a given that they will dominate the top three places.

One tournament dried up here because of that. They only paid the top three places and the same people always won. People soon realized that they had no chance to come in the money so they quit going there.

How do you compare your playing ability against the people who beat you in the tournament? Are your abilities the same? Are you better than them? Or are they better than you? Do you go into the match knowing you will win? Or knowing you will lose. Once you start thinking that you have no chance against a player then you are wasting your time because you surely will lose.

Do you recognize the shots they play? The two way shots? The safeties? Do they have more patience than you do? Do you take advantage of their mistakes? Or is it always them taking advantage of your mistakes? Keep in mind that everyone makes mistakes - missing shots or playing the wrong shot.

When you lose analyze your match. At what point did you give up? (Hope it's not the coin toss). Then forget about all the lucky breaks your opponent got and work on where you went wrong and improve on that because that is the only thing you have control of. Don't be one of those players who always blame their loss on lucky play of their opponents.

Jake
 
cheesemouse said:
...question:When you know you have gotten to the money, reached the final four, or otherwise proved your game do your let the air out of your ballon? Are you personally satisfidy with your finish? In other words, has third become an exceptable goal?...
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I think you put your finger on the problem. I am not a greedy person, I tend to be giving and am satisfied with just getting in the money. Then I reward myself for winning anything. And I am happy for friends who finish first or second (and have been working hard to improve). I think I'm happier for my friends doing well than myself doing well, since I get in the money more often than they do. (I guess I like to share?)

Anyway I think I'll only reward myself from now on if I finish 1st.
 
CaptainJR said:
...the break seems to be one of the biggest determining factors. With these guys, if they make a ball on the break and get a descent spread, they are out...
Click to expand...

Yes, that was what I was thinking last night when I played one of my final matches. I broke and did not get in a ball, then knew that was it (with the player I was playing).

The thing is I have a break which usually gets in one ball. But I experiment with different breaks when playing for fun. So I won the break and used an experimental break rather than a known good break. I guess that was a stupid thing to do. I guess I need to THINK before breaking from now on...
 
CaptainJR makes a good point about the break. I think it comes down to attitude and mindset. The best players have a business like approach not only the game, but to the environment. Go to any tourney and you will see many players shifting from the social environment to the competitive environment from one minute to the next. The best players can flip that switch quicker and more effectively than their counterparts. My book "The Growling Point" deals with subject specifically - in depth. The players that are consistently in the top 3 (like in the tourney JJ spoke of) are usually always ready to go. Thi is what will separate Jon Hennessy from Johnny Archer at a major tournament. Both are great players, but at two completely different levels. Competitive environment also counts for something as well. Lets not forget what Stalev did to Bobby Pickel a few years ago. Playing for beans is not the same as playing in a tournament for prestige and a tin cup. Those are two completely different environments. Players also tend to concentrate on playing for recognition, prize money, and bragging rights, and this takes them out of the mindset required to pocket the balls that they should. Feel free to get with me privately if you are looking to get over this plateau. You'd be amazed how a little bit of fine tuning in your mindset can make 3rd place a thing of the past.
 
jjinfla said:
How do you compare your playing ability against the people who beat you in the tournament? Are your abilities the same? Are you better than them? Or are they better than you? Do you go into the match knowing you will win? Or knowing you will lose. Once you start thinking that you have no chance against a player then you are wasting your time because you surely will lose.

Do you recognize the shots they play? The two way shots? The safeties? Do they have more patience than you do? Do you take advantage of their mistakes? Or is it always them taking advantage of your mistakes? Keep in mind that everyone makes mistakes - missing shots or playing the wrong shot.

At what point did you give up? (Hope it's not the coin toss).
Jake
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My abilities compaired with theirs: I've only been playing seriously for two years - the others have 5, 10, or 20 years experience. I'm getting to where I can make the same difficult shots as they do. But they seem to think about not leaving me with a shot for each and every shot they make whereas I maybe do this 50% of the time (wanting them to get their balls out of my way).

It usually gets down to where I have one ball left and the other guy has one ball left. I try to make my ball assuming I will make it and don't think about also leaving the cue ball in a bad spot for the other guy. I'm just learning how to leave the cue ball in a good spot for me. The other guy will *always* leave the cue ball in a bad spot for me.

I go into a match to try my best. I don't know if I will win or lose with anyone. With the top players, I have beat them in the past but they have beat me more times. I know it is possible to beat anyone, so I try my best.

I do recognize the shots they are making and how badly they are leaving me. The thing is that they work toward a goal over a sequence of innings. I don't know what they are up to with their first few shots (re-arranging the balls on the table). But by the middle of the game, I see what they are doing (trend in their play) and say "that sneaky little devil!".

I don't ever give up. I say the game is not over until it is over. I've seen players make some very silly mistakes, so anything is possible.
 
Blackjack said:
Go to any tourney and you will see many players shifting from the social environment to the competitive environment from one minute to the next. The best players can flip that switch quicker and more effectively than their counterparts. My book "The Growling Point" deals with subject specifically - in depth.
Click to expand...

I've been told by a top player that I need to learn to "flip my switch". I don't seem to be able to do this at this point. Either I'm "on" or "off". I can't control it!

Anyway where can I buy your book "The Growling Point"? (I'll be out of town for christmas, so maybe order when I get back...)

Any other books you have?
 
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