Incardona Fisher challenge match

I'd agree with Brian, a while back when Vivian V. was in top form and I think in the top 5 of the women a friend of mine who you *might* call a shortstop(probably not) gave her a game on the wire going to 7 and beat her handily. This guy got the 7 from hillbilly and lost so I'd say there are at least 1000 guys in the US who can beat him, probably many more.

With fast felt and loose pockets I think Allison can be competitive with most men but like crawfish said, get her to play in a gambling environment with worn felt and tight tables and she gets big weight.
 
bud green said:
I might be the minority but I might actually take Allison or Karen over Billy at this point. I know he is still used to playing one pocket for some high stakes but in nine ball, with the added pressure of losing to a lady, I think I still might take the ladies who are on tv 10 times a year.
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I completely agree, in reality I think Allison might have to give Billy some weight. No offense Bill.
 
ccshrimper said:
I'd agree with Brian, a while back when Vivian V. was in top form and I think in the top 5 of the women a friend of mine who you *might* call a shortstop(probably not) gave her a game on the wire going to 7 and beat her handily. This guy got the 7 from hillbilly and lost so I'd say there are at least 1000 guys in the US who can beat him, probably many more.

With fast felt and loose pockets I think Allison can be competitive with most men but like crawfish said, get her to play in a gambling environment with worn felt and tight tables and she gets big weight.
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Vivian challenges shortstops often and she runs about 50/50. She is no Allison. While Allison has won her last 45 titles, I dont think VV has won one. She is the 6 under Allison.
 
This happened when Vivian was in top form, not the last 5 years... Back then she wasn't a big underdog under Allison. I want to say she was either the 2nd or 3rd rated woman on tour. I agree that Allison is a much tougher player now though.

Anyway, we're all guessing here on what the outcome would be. I doubt very seriously anything will happen so there's no reason for anyone to get upset about anothers opinion. Even if they did play, I don't know where Billy's 9-ball game is compared to the top men at this stage in his life. If what crawfish said about Johnny giving Allison weight is true, and I don't have a reason to doubt him, then there are MANY male players who would take less weight than Allison needed.
 
Fragged said:
Vivian challenges shortstops often and she runs about 50/50. She is no Allison. While Allison has won her last 45 titles, I dont think VV has won one. She is the 6 under Allison.
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You guys get Ally or Vivian, or Jeanette and I'll take a guy you guys considered a shortstop.. Tony Watson. Put it together in a gambling environment, slow cloth, and a hundred of the top men. Ten ahead for whatever they come up with. Now, just sit back and watch who the top men put their money on. Anyone who doesn't think the guys will take Little Tony needs to put the pipe down. They only way she attempted to play a while back was with the six, or seven and the break. I can't remember which one it was. Chewtobacca, aka Derek Leonard, has beaten quite a few of the top women. And just so you know, ask Chewy what he needs to play Johnny. I just don't think a lot of people understand how hard it is to fade a "six", then a "four," back to back with only one mistake in between.

No matter how much we talk about this, it won't happen. But, just ask the women. See what they say. Jeanette will gamble. Let her tell you her opinion of what we're talking about. Gotta go to bed. I enjoyed this little debate. Night all.
 
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crawfish said:
You guys get Ally or Vivian, or Jeanette and I'll take a guy you guys considered a shortstop.. Tony Watson. Put it together in a gambling environment, slow cloth, and a hundred of the top men. Ten ahead for whatever they come up with. Now, just sit back and watch who the top men put their money on. Anyone who doesn't think the guys will take Little Tony needs to put the pipe down. They only way she attempted to play a while back was with the six, or seven and the break. I can't remember which one it was. Chewtobacca, aka Derek Leonard, has beaten quite a few of the top women. And just so you know, ask Chewy what he needs to play Johnny. I just don't think a lot of people understand how hard it is to fade a "six", then a "four," back to back with only one mistake in between.
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I dont consider Tee Dubya a shortstop. He is a competitive regional champion. Most good PR's have a shortstop and T Dubya beats them all. JMHO
 
Fragged said:
I dont consider Tee Dubya a shortstop. He is a competitive regional champion. Most good PR's have a shortstop and T Dubya beats them all. JMHO
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Believe it or not, he's been called a shortstop or A player on here. I like Little T. Man, have I seen him make some unwinnable games, and win. When he's "right," he might beat anyone.
 
Tony in good form playing on a table that breaks easy -I think he beats her... I saw him drill Archer at Mr Cues II one time two stroking long combos so I don't think he's your average shortstop when he's playing good.

Allison has shot perfect matches in races to seven and plays excellent overall. I just have some doubts about guys like Billy or Grady or Diliberto,etc... beating her at this point in their careers. When they were in their prime, they'd bea her all day long. Once guys get over 50 though, almost all of them drop off quite a bit in their ball pocketing and they start becoming one pocket experts,etc.

Mike Lebron might of played as strong as anyone other than Lassiter once they reached their middle 50's. Sigel was an absolute monster but looks to have lost much of his game. I just think the best lady players can compete with anyone who isn't playing better than shortstop pool.
 
bud green said:
Tony in good form playing on a table that breaks easy -I think he beats her... I saw him drill Archer at Mr Cues II one time two stroking long combos so I don't think he's your average shortstop when he's playing good.

Allison has shot perfect matches in races to seven and plays excellent overall. I just have some doubts about guys like Billy or Grady or Diliberto,etc... beating her at this point in their careers. When they were in their prime, they'd bea her all day long. Once guys get over 50 though, almost all of them drop off quite a bit in their ball pocketing and they start becoming one pocket experts,etc.

Mike Lebron might of played as strong as anyone other than Lassiter once they reached their middle 50's. Sigel was an absolute monster but looks to have lost much of his game. I just think the best lady players can compete with anyone who isn't playing better than shortstop pool.
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I agree totally. But, how many players play a little above shortstop players? There's a shitload, that's how many.
 
500 is an understatement i think

There are 500 in the USA alone that would beat her 10 ahead for sure not short tournament races but true 10 aheads on decently tough equipment......

OK...in Ohio alone there is:bartram, dee adkins, will slone,durbin,ryan stone,shannon murphy, tommy stevenson, jason miller, mike brown, billy pay, kevin tomlin,leil gay , shawn putnam, troy frank, steve mcannich. thats 15 guaranteed that would beat her god only knows how many shortstops play close to her speed that i didnt mention or other good players i couldnt thinkof off the top of my head....

There is at least an average of 10 a state and for every state that dont have ten another will have 15 to makeup the difference.........SO 500 is an understatement....

Worldwide who even knows 1000 minumum probaly 2000....I dont know why men play so much better when its not a physical sport really but they do...
 
alli's game

how about a race to ten playing snooker on a 6x12 for 10,000? how many shortstops ( or any other nine or ten-ballers) will beat her then?
 
tsk7878 said:
how about a race to ten playing snooker on a 6x12 for 10,000? how many shortstops ( or any other nine or ten-ballers) will beat her then?
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Only the guys that started playing snooker. If they didn't then they can't win this game. It is probably a pointless argument because Allison has not played snooker in 10 years but I used to play snooker full time at the same time she did and I would play any pro pool player a race to ten snooker and feel like I am the favorite. I think that this is a separate topic though.
 
Right on!!

Terry Ardeno said:
Crawfish,
She BEAT Allen Hokins & Charlie Williams last week! Why weren't all the guys you named beating everybody like that?
In the list you named, Earl beats her, Mike Coltrain before is also right on, but I say that's it. Watson might have won a set, but doesn't everyone lose or win a set unexpectedly at times? BJ, Wade Crane & Keith B would do "ok", not get run over, but she is the favorite over them others.
She is IN THE ARENA MIXING IT UP, not hustling at a local 6 table beer garden. She has played world class competion for two decades now and DOMINATED! She has MULTIPLE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS and numerous major championships in her pedigree. She is used to high pressure and TV doesn't induce the dreaded "dribble stroke" in any of her games.
The low level of respect she's getting is amazing. Even the top men pros like Earl, Archer, Nick & Buddy rave over her game.
And most importantly, THE BALLS DON'T KNOW WHO IS HITTING THEM. She plays the table, not the men.
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Terry you're right on with your opinion,Allison feeds off of situations of this kind. Don't foget how competitive she was against Grady in the 90's when they toured with their challenge matches.And she is a better player today than she was then,picking up all that experience and confidence that goes along with it.She knows how to win and feeds off the cameras, believe me i'm certainly not the favorite but if i'm able to relax and hit a gear it could be interesting.And those of you that think differently are only fooling yourselves and setting yourselves up for dissapointment.Allison Fisher can flat out play and don't forget it.
 
I agree completely, and I'd love to see this take place. Maybe the IPT can make this their next challenge match and broadcast it live online. I'd sure watch it over the Deuel/Busta matchup. Does anyone here have Deno or Kevin's ear? I suggest a 10-ball race to 21 with $10,000 to the winner.

wincardona said:
Terry you're right on with your opinion,Allison feeds off of situations of this kind. Don't foget how competitive she was against Grady in the 90's when they toured with their challenge matches.And she is a better player today than she was then,picking up all that experience and confidence that goes along with it.She knows how to win and feeds off the cameras, believe me i'm certainly not the favorite but if i'm able to relax and hit a gear it could be interesting.And those of you that think differently are only fooling yourselves and setting yourselves up for dissapointment.Allison Fisher can flat out play and don't forget it.
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tap tap tap

bud green said:
Tony in good form playing on a table that breaks easy -I think he beats her... I saw him drill Archer at Mr Cues II one time two stroking long combos so I don't think he's your average shortstop when he's playing good.

Allison has shot perfect matches in races to seven and plays excellent overall. I just have some doubts about guys like Billy or Grady or Diliberto,etc... beating her at this point in their careers. When they were in their prime, they'd bea her all day long. Once guys get over 50 though, almost all of them drop off quite a bit in their ball pocketing and they start becoming one pocket experts,etc.

Mike Lebron might of played as strong as anyone other than Lassiter once they reached their middle 50's. Sigel was an absolute monster but looks to have lost much of his game. I just think the best lady players can compete with anyone who isn't playing better than shortstop pool.
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Let's put this in prospective,i'm 64 years old and clearly not in the top 100 players( male and female ) in the world. Allison is going to outshoot me,play better under the cameras,and figures to out perform me with the conditions of the set.To me this is not a ego thing this is about a personal challenge with myself,and an interesting match that would be great for our game,and once again I believe she's the favorite. I have a tremendous amount of respect for Allison as a person and as a player and to a lot of people out there that believe there are a lot of male players that would beat her with the conditions that I proposed are wrong.
 
I hope you can make the game Bill. This thread started out with a spirited challenge made with respect and some admiration. As I read through the pages Bill was a heavy favorite with Allison having nary a chance, then she was reduced to an opponent. A few more pages then it was a fairly even match. The last page says it all when Bill posted with the real outlook on this duel. All I can say is I really enjoy watching Bill play anyone anytime any game. I think at 64 he is doing what Eddie Felson did in the Color of Money he rededicated himself to the game. Good luck Bill
 
wincardona said:
Let's put this in prospective,i'm 64 years old and clearly not in the top 100 players( male and female ) in the world. Allison is going to outshoot me,play better under the cameras,and figures to out perform me with the conditions of the set.To me this is not a ego thing this is about a personal challenge with myself,and an interesting match that would be great for our game,and once again I believe she's the favorite. I have a tremendous amount of respect for Allison as a person and as a player and to a lot of people out there that believe there are a lot of male players that would beat her with the conditions that I proposed are wrong.
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I would be interested in watching. Sounds like a great match to me. If it's close enough, I'd actually like to go see it. If it's too far away, I would hope TAR or someone else has it online.
 
wincardona said:
Let's put this in prospective,i'm 64 years old and clearly not in the top 100 players( male and female ) in the world. Allison is going to outshoot me,play better under the cameras,and figures to out perform me with the conditions of the set.To me this is not a ego thing this is about a personal challenge with myself,and an interesting match that would be great for our game,and once again I believe she's the favorite. I have a tremendous amount of respect for Allison as a person and as a player and to a lot of people out there that believe there are a lot of male players that would beat her with the conditions that I proposed are wrong.
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Its a VERY intereting match. It would actually answer alot of questions in this thread.Like Billy says at this point in his carreer hes a top 200 9 ball player or so... Billly? Thats somewhere in the vicinity right. So the outcome would say alot about what the top women players i.e karen and allison are capable of against solid men opponenets.
 
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