Instant Replay Of Referee Ruling
- Thread starter Scaramouche
- Start date
Kinda sucks for Knight, but perhaps the referee was instructed to make sure that all players call even the simplest of 9ball shots, or it might have cost him his job. Who knows. It's a stupid rule anyways, because in a game where you can have a fluke safety, fluking the 9ball fits right in there with it. Put the 'safety allowed' rule back in 9ball, then work from there IMO.
I agree with you. The way it's played today, 9ball cannot be considered a game of skill. It's more akin to poker.cuetechasaurus said:
Doc
gulfportdoc said:
I actually think 9ball requires a ton of skill, so don't get me wrong. I just feel that them enforcing a 'call shot on the 9' rule doesn't fit in, because they removed the 'call safety' rule long ago. The two rules were never fit together in the first place, but IMO they belong together if the 'call 9' rule is enforced.
But then again now that I think of it, two-way shots are played in 9-ball, which are often great shots to play, so I guess the call safety rule would cause problems with two way shots. After typing the previous sentence, I am left very confused. Nevermind. lol
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Right up there with calling your pocket but forgetting to mark it, in APA. I know a guy who did that in Vegas years ago, in front of "the whole world". He still cries about it after even one shot of tequila.The rule is not trivial, though. It's a centerpiece of the CoC format. From one of the tourney's announcements:
In addition, the tournament format is the most demanding test of 9-Ball skill in the sport. The matches are two sets, race to five games each set, with a 1-game sudden death tie-breaker in the event of tied sets. The 9-ball does not count on the break, and to win a game, the 9-ball is call shot. The caliber of competition is so intense that a single mistake invariably eliminates a player from any chance at the winner-take-all purse of $50,000.
All of the rules are completely arbitrary; "silly," when you look at them rationally. But they aren't that hard to remember.
BTW, this Steve Knight looks a lot younger than Denver's Steve Knight, who also shoots a very good stick.
I think the "must call the 9 ball" ruling is awful. If they want to minimize the luck factor, every shot should be called, that is "ball in pocket." Going the way of that stupid rule on the 8 in APA 8 ball is retrograde, IMHO. Not that the 8 shouldn't be called, but all balls in 8 ball should be called. Making a rule requiring calling a pocket for just one ball has to mess with a player's head. Imagine a similar rule in one pocket, gotta call a specific ball in the hole. I think these tournaments that come up with the most inane rules, like the one requiring moving 4 balls past the side pockets on a 9 ball break for it to be a legal break are designed to penalise a certain style of playing. That break rule was clearly instituted to hurt Corey Deuel's soft break. Perhaps it should be named "The Divinization of Earl" rule.
Flex
Flex
gulfportdoc said:
In the game of pool and many other occupations, but not poker:
Talent is the physical ability to do something. One can have the talent to do something without knowing how to do it.
Skill is the knowledge of how to use talent.
Luck is unconsciously exercised skill that one's opponent does not understand. Hence, the common exchange between pool players,
"How the $@#! did you do that?!"
"$@#! if I know. Pay up!
To paraphrase Arthur C. Clark: any sufficiently advanced skill is indistinguishable from chance.
Hello Dhakala,
Steve Knight ("the UK one") is one of my major heroes and the hero of most 9 ball players from the UK. He took the game to new levels over here and everyone who appreciates the game on this side of the Atlantic owes a lot to him for that. An incredible player and, by all accounts, a great guy too.
Thanks,
Chris (Chrstc).
gregory said:
Hello,
You could say Mika and Steve had some "history" by the time this match took place actually, despite them being Mosconi Cup team mates from 1998-2001. I'd been trying to get the Steve Knight vs Mika Immonen Accu-Stats match (from 2001) for ages and finally got a copy last month. It's a brilliant match but the way Mika sulks at the end when he loses is surprising. He shakes Steve's hand without making any eye contact at all. Definitely not a good loser! Anyway maybe that's why he was so keen to win the CoC match. The score was 5-1 5-1 I think (I do have the match in my collection) but the scoreline didn't accurately reflect the match at all. It should certainly have been closer and that call at the start of the match did seem to put Steve off a bit.
Sorry if this is a bit off-topic,
Chris (Chrstc).
Every one concerned knew where the 9 Ball was going. calling that shot would be like saying, "I am going to breathe again".
Myself I don't like SLOP in a "Game of Pool", but losing to statute or rule that is intended to eliminate slop or accidents, is Chicken-sh##.
If Mika had given the ball back to his opponent, it would have been character-personafied. But the need to win is very powerful emotion.
Myself I don't like SLOP in a "Game of Pool", but losing to statute or rule that is intended to eliminate slop or accidents, is Chicken-sh##.
If Mika had given the ball back to his opponent, it would have been character-personafied. But the need to win is very powerful emotion.
Everybody that has ever watched the challenge of champions knows you have to call the 9. I think the call was appropriate, It would be no different if he hadn't patched the pocket playing valley 8-ball.
a rule is a rule, if you make an exception for one person even if you know his intent was to sink the 9 in that pocket then you have to make it for everyone even if they are doing a 5 rail kick combination onto the 9.
JMO
a rule is a rule, if you make an exception for one person even if you know his intent was to sink the 9 in that pocket then you have to make it for everyone even if they are doing a 5 rail kick combination onto the 9.
JMO
i actually uploaded the video.....notice mika doesn't look at the table after the ref called it. i have another match where mika refuses to shake yang's hand after he loses to him in taiwan...i'll probably upload that later on...
by the way what ever hapened to steve knight?
by the way what ever hapened to steve knight?
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Anyone else find Mika's choice of shots with BIH on the spotted 9 odd. Why the side pocket, and why place the cue ball where he has to bridge over the pocket. That shot is missable. Maybe he misses it 1 time in 1000, but I've seen pros miss easier 9 balls than that.
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The Steve Knight-Mika Immonen match of 2001 was a pretty good match. Mika does some things in that match that kind of portray him to be a jerk. Steve Knight wins the match simply because he outplayed Mika. At one point, they both go and take a break, so the commentators have it fade out, and then it starts again with Mika at the table shooting while Steve Knight is still on break! The accustats commentators are questioning why Mika just walzted in without waiting for Knight and continued the match, with his opponent nowhere to be found. I believe they also mentioned that Knight didn't take an extended period of time for his break, it was just normal time. Anyways, Mika lays down a safety, and Knight walks back in, and he is surprised that the layout of the table is different. He asks Mika something, and Mika says something back that looked kind of rude, and Steve seems to shrug it off, doesn't say a word, and continues on to win the match. At the end of the match, Knight approaches Mika, and Mika doesn't really shake his hand, he just touches Knight's hand and is looking in the opposite direction pretty much.
Another match I watched was Mika vs Larry Nevel, and at the end of that match, Mika refuses to shake Larry's hand. When it was 9-9, or something like that, Mika has a difficult shot on the 9-ball, that Larry left after missing IIRC. Mika is surveying the table, and then he stops and says something to Nevel. Mika gets down on the shot and overcuts it literally by a diamond. Larry goes on to win the match, and he approaches Mika, who stays seated with his arms folded across, and doesn't even look at Larry. In the commentator booth, they asked Larry why Mika wouldnt shake his hand. Larry said that after he (Larry) missed the 9, he was mumbling something to himself quietly because he was upset he missed it. Mika wasn't down on the shot, he wasn't even about to get ready to shoot yet, and he tells Larry to shut up. Larry says that he was surprised that Mika could even hear him, because Larry's seat was pretty far away from the table.
I also believe this was around the time when Mika had lost 11-0 against Corey in the finals of the US Open. Those must have been bitter times for him.
I also forgot to add, that I think that Mika had just moved to the USA, and he solely made a living playing pool. He didn't work or anything, all he did was train for pool. So I could imagine that when he lost close matches like that (when he was an up and coming top player), he would be very upset and hurt. You never know if a ball he missed or a bad roll he got cost him that month's rent. Either way, I applaud Mika for becoming one of the best pool players the game has ever seen.
Another match I watched was Mika vs Larry Nevel, and at the end of that match, Mika refuses to shake Larry's hand. When it was 9-9, or something like that, Mika has a difficult shot on the 9-ball, that Larry left after missing IIRC. Mika is surveying the table, and then he stops and says something to Nevel. Mika gets down on the shot and overcuts it literally by a diamond. Larry goes on to win the match, and he approaches Mika, who stays seated with his arms folded across, and doesn't even look at Larry. In the commentator booth, they asked Larry why Mika wouldnt shake his hand. Larry said that after he (Larry) missed the 9, he was mumbling something to himself quietly because he was upset he missed it. Mika wasn't down on the shot, he wasn't even about to get ready to shoot yet, and he tells Larry to shut up. Larry says that he was surprised that Mika could even hear him, because Larry's seat was pretty far away from the table.
I also believe this was around the time when Mika had lost 11-0 against Corey in the finals of the US Open. Those must have been bitter times for him.
I also forgot to add, that I think that Mika had just moved to the USA, and he solely made a living playing pool. He didn't work or anything, all he did was train for pool. So I could imagine that when he lost close matches like that (when he was an up and coming top player), he would be very upset and hurt. You never know if a ball he missed or a bad roll he got cost him that month's rent. Either way, I applaud Mika for becoming one of the best pool players the game has ever seen.
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actually Steve Knight does call it when he points his cue at the corner.look at it close. the video
Steve
Steve