IPT vs WPC?
- Thread starter Renegade
- Start date
Renegade said:
Yeah, let's see ... the IPT has, what, 4 tournaments this year. And next year I believe 7 are scheduled. That leaves ... ummmm ... 45 is it...? Yes, I believe the rest of the pool world has only 45 weeks to hold their tournaments. Appalling, isn't it.
Doesn't matter really. The players will go where the money is at. If the IPT is going to provide this kind of money from now on out...no one is going to care one darn bit if the IPT overlaps the US Open or the WPC or any other tournament for that matter....
The players with tour cards and the 50 qualifiers in any particular event will go to the IPT tournament, those who aren't tour card holders or didn't qualify will then go on to dominate or at least be strong in the other non-IPT tournaments. Assuming the IPT eventually stacks up the best of the best. IPT hopefuls can make a name for themselves in the other tournaments and get some exposure. Even if the IPT someday overshadows everything else, those of us in the pool world will still pay attention to those tournaments.
Will the IPT kill the other tournaments? I doubt that. For one, it is yet to determined whether or not the IPT will survive or become as big as KT says it will be. That's step one. Secondly, it is yet to be determined due to the previous condition that other tournaments would fold due to the IPT. You'd have to look into the revenue generating mechanisms of these other tournaments to determine if the IPT poses a threat. Finally, the most the IPT could do would be to deny these other tournaments the big-name elite players participation. If that's what brings in the $$$, well then maybe that's the revenue generating force behind the other tournaments. If so, maybe the IPT will kill off some of the other tournaments, assuming the IPT actually becomes the main force behind pool like the PGA is the main force behind Golf.
There's just too many players out there and too many tournaments for the IPT to eclipse. The IPT can only field 200 players at most at any given event. That's 150 card holders, and 50 qualifers from around the world. There's a lot more talent out there than just that; however, the names will be in the IPT.
NOTE: KT is considering making IPT membership exclusive in the future. IE, if you are a tour card holder, you can only play in the IPT. He believes that if the IPT takes off and becomes very successful, that he's essentially branded the players and it would be unfair for other tournaments and promoters to profit off of his branding and promotion of these players. In a sense, part of their "celebrity" status is in due in part to the IPT. Now, it works in reverse. The stars like Efren et al are what attracts us to the IPT, but in the future, new stars in pool will be created by the format, production and the entire system of the IPT.
The players with tour cards and the 50 qualifiers in any particular event will go to the IPT tournament, those who aren't tour card holders or didn't qualify will then go on to dominate or at least be strong in the other non-IPT tournaments. Assuming the IPT eventually stacks up the best of the best. IPT hopefuls can make a name for themselves in the other tournaments and get some exposure. Even if the IPT someday overshadows everything else, those of us in the pool world will still pay attention to those tournaments.
Will the IPT kill the other tournaments? I doubt that. For one, it is yet to determined whether or not the IPT will survive or become as big as KT says it will be. That's step one. Secondly, it is yet to be determined due to the previous condition that other tournaments would fold due to the IPT. You'd have to look into the revenue generating mechanisms of these other tournaments to determine if the IPT poses a threat. Finally, the most the IPT could do would be to deny these other tournaments the big-name elite players participation. If that's what brings in the $$$, well then maybe that's the revenue generating force behind the other tournaments. If so, maybe the IPT will kill off some of the other tournaments, assuming the IPT actually becomes the main force behind pool like the PGA is the main force behind Golf.
There's just too many players out there and too many tournaments for the IPT to eclipse. The IPT can only field 200 players at most at any given event. That's 150 card holders, and 50 qualifers from around the world. There's a lot more talent out there than just that; however, the names will be in the IPT.
NOTE: KT is considering making IPT membership exclusive in the future. IE, if you are a tour card holder, you can only play in the IPT. He believes that if the IPT takes off and becomes very successful, that he's essentially branded the players and it would be unfair for other tournaments and promoters to profit off of his branding and promotion of these players. In a sense, part of their "celebrity" status is in due in part to the IPT. Now, it works in reverse. The stars like Efren et al are what attracts us to the IPT, but in the future, new stars in pool will be created by the format, production and the entire system of the IPT.
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I don't think IPT will replace WPC. World Pool Championship is more stringent, only 2 from each country can enter. I think the prestige has something to do with the name of the tournament itself and not the money.
If IPT will put something like a 3 or 5 man team from each country and have a World Cup of Pool, that will have the possibility of killing WPC.
If IPT will put something like a 3 or 5 man team from each country and have a World Cup of Pool, that will have the possibility of killing WPC.
NYC cue dude
Banned
with regards to KT ideas on exclusivity, this is not conjecture or speculation. In fact these are his own words as quoted in an article in this months billiards digest. KT states that initially he would be respectful to the world of pool and allow his tour members to enter any tournament they desire.
After reconsideration, he believes these players should be exclusive to his tour and he will announce his decision late 2006.
What does this all mean?
My perspective is this.
IF ipt players are prohibited from playing in other tournaments they wont. As said before, they will follow the money. Anyway, i have spoken to other players and they have told me that if the ipt takes off with the 11 scheduled events per year, why would they ever enter a tourney with first prize of 10 or 20k. they have to beat an entire field, playing for 5 days to win what they would win in the ipt for coming in 32. Players like archer have told me those events are over for him.
What is KT really looking for? I think, as he alluded to in the article, sanctioning fees and product licensing. His intention is to BRAND the ipt as the leader in pool. You want to have a big tournament, pay him a sanctioning fee. You want a big tournament, use ipt tables, cloth, racks chalk etc. This way, he gets paid whenever his branded athletes play, wereever that might be.
I'll share a story that i have been repeating since it happened. In fact, i'll tell anyone who will isten, that is how much it bothered me.
I was the sponsor of the world staright pool championships this past may. KT came to route on his buddy sigel. we talked for about a half hour about the ipt, when he preceeded to tell me that his goal is "TO OWN POOL" (puke).
well, it seems, whether we like it or not, he is weel on his way to accomplishing his goals.
I hope the ipt is successful. This means that the players will benifit greatley, as well as the sport. I just hope that kt doesn't ruin things
randy
After reconsideration, he believes these players should be exclusive to his tour and he will announce his decision late 2006.
What does this all mean?
My perspective is this.
IF ipt players are prohibited from playing in other tournaments they wont. As said before, they will follow the money. Anyway, i have spoken to other players and they have told me that if the ipt takes off with the 11 scheduled events per year, why would they ever enter a tourney with first prize of 10 or 20k. they have to beat an entire field, playing for 5 days to win what they would win in the ipt for coming in 32. Players like archer have told me those events are over for him.
What is KT really looking for? I think, as he alluded to in the article, sanctioning fees and product licensing. His intention is to BRAND the ipt as the leader in pool. You want to have a big tournament, pay him a sanctioning fee. You want a big tournament, use ipt tables, cloth, racks chalk etc. This way, he gets paid whenever his branded athletes play, wereever that might be.
I'll share a story that i have been repeating since it happened. In fact, i'll tell anyone who will isten, that is how much it bothered me.
I was the sponsor of the world staright pool championships this past may. KT came to route on his buddy sigel. we talked for about a half hour about the ipt, when he preceeded to tell me that his goal is "TO OWN POOL" (puke).
well, it seems, whether we like it or not, he is weel on his way to accomplishing his goals.
I hope the ipt is successful. This means that the players will benifit greatley, as well as the sport. I just hope that kt doesn't ruin things
randy
Billards Digest - like NYC Dude said. Why would I come here and post about something that is a figment of my imagination? Others are the rumor spreading trolls around here - not me.
One of the potential, and likely, outcomes is that the professional pool world will become very similiar to the boxing world. Several different and competing, sanctioned tours, different world champions and probably much more money for the very FEW top players in each "tour".
Good for pool?, I really don't know for sure, but, somehow I don't think so. Although the few champions will most likely do well, most players will be hurt by this type of arrangement. By being turned into a circus, the sport itself will not be better off and the mainstream fans will not flock to the sport. KT will make money on the already established top players and from the already dedicated fan.
KT will, undoubtably, do very well. Unfortunately, that type of personality usually leaves a lot of wreckage in their wakes.
Hopefully, the IPT players will get some very qualified legal counsel and form a "players association" before they get in too far over their head.
Good for pool?, I really don't know for sure, but, somehow I don't think so. Although the few champions will most likely do well, most players will be hurt by this type of arrangement. By being turned into a circus, the sport itself will not be better off and the mainstream fans will not flock to the sport. KT will make money on the already established top players and from the already dedicated fan.
KT will, undoubtably, do very well. Unfortunately, that type of personality usually leaves a lot of wreckage in their wakes.
Hopefully, the IPT players will get some very qualified legal counsel and form a "players association" before they get in too far over their head.
I wonder how most of the Filipino players will take it if IPT membership means foregoing non-IPT tournaments? Most of them, playing pool is their occupation. That's their main source of living.
crosseyedjoe said:
well, there's always gambling
but seriously, i'm really quite concerned about this and the suggestion of jimmyg about forming a "players' association" might be a good one. when people talk about dominating or 'owning' something... well, let's just say that it's best to hedge against something bad happening in future.
"player's association" can also cause players division, insider and outsider. the chance of eventually having "member-only" tournaments is very big. i don't think that will be good for a sports known to be every man's game.
T
Timberly
Guest
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=37401Snapshot9 said:
crosseyedjoe said:
The suggestion is that the IPT players ban together and form a "players association" or "player's union", something sililiar to what all other major professional sports have; baseball, basketball etc. It's function would be to create one "voice" for all IPT card holders (150) and possibly the qualifying IPT tournament players to speak through, and to gain some negotiating leverage with KT and the IPT. This would give the IPT members the ability to be able to negotiate and contribute some input with the IPT for better rules, income participation, fairer payouts, tournament standards, possiblly providing benefits and preventing abusive and unfair rules and restrictions from being imposed against them .
All IPT card holders and possibly qualifying tournament players would be eligible to join the "association" which would have it's own attorney and elect "players representatives" to negotiate on their behalf, with all members having final a voice by way of voting on all, or just major issues, depending on how the Charter would be set up. Without such an player's organization uniting all IPT tour members, the members are lacking unity and are at the mercy of KT.
Rather than create division amoung the members, which is what the player's currently have, it actually will create unity. It's not really a suggestion, it's a sound business recommendation, and if I was your business advisor, I would insist on it. If something like this was already in place, many of the member's not fortunate to have their own attorney, could have had someone to take this recent "agent's" contract to the "association" attorney for advice and possibly avoid a potentially bad situation in the future.
The sooner something like this gets implemented, the better for the players.
I love the WPC and look forward to watching it in it's entirety every year.I love the format, the competition,most of the announcers and the way the game is presented.I have some complete Uncut UK sets and I like them better than accu-stat matches.
Before the IPT came around, the WPC was THE tournament. It was the tournament every player wanted to win more than any other tourney.
Now that the IPT has showed up on the scene, the WPC will be anti-climatic, at least cash wise for the players.The players have now had a taste of the decent cash and the addiction so to speak has been digested.
It is my hope that the WPC never dies because it's really a decent event.For the time being it also includes alot of talented Asian players that the IPT doesn't.
If Trudeau goes on a power trip and controls where the players can and can't play and the WPC dies in the process, I think it will be a great tragedy in the world of pool.
RJ
Before the IPT came around, the WPC was THE tournament. It was the tournament every player wanted to win more than any other tourney.
Now that the IPT has showed up on the scene, the WPC will be anti-climatic, at least cash wise for the players.The players have now had a taste of the decent cash and the addiction so to speak has been digested.
It is my hope that the WPC never dies because it's really a decent event.For the time being it also includes alot of talented Asian players that the IPT doesn't.
If Trudeau goes on a power trip and controls where the players can and can't play and the WPC dies in the process, I think it will be a great tragedy in the world of pool.
RJ
when the smoke clears...
This is a key point in this discussion. While the Filipino players always do it for the money, they have plenty of other obligations in the world of pool which will trash KT's idea of an IPT player not being able to play in other tournaments. For a good example, this years World Pool Championship is in Manila. It's impossible to even think that a Filipino wouldn't compete in this tournament just because KT said so. Efren would be crucified if he skipped the eevent and it just won't happen. KT is one arrogant dude to think he will own pool.
Don't forget, KT might be giving away lots of money now, but what kind of business model is this? He hasn't even come close to turning a profit. Matchroom Sport has been in the business for 30 years and they run a very tight ship. Don't you think they would be giving away large prize money if the money was there to give? IPT looks like a lot of smoke and mirrors to me. And let's see who's standing when the smoke clears.
crosseyedjoe said:
This is a key point in this discussion. While the Filipino players always do it for the money, they have plenty of other obligations in the world of pool which will trash KT's idea of an IPT player not being able to play in other tournaments. For a good example, this years World Pool Championship is in Manila. It's impossible to even think that a Filipino wouldn't compete in this tournament just because KT said so. Efren would be crucified if he skipped the eevent and it just won't happen. KT is one arrogant dude to think he will own pool.
Don't forget, KT might be giving away lots of money now, but what kind of business model is this? He hasn't even come close to turning a profit. Matchroom Sport has been in the business for 30 years and they run a very tight ship. Don't you think they would be giving away large prize money if the money was there to give? IPT looks like a lot of smoke and mirrors to me. And let's see who's standing when the smoke clears.