is an old hoppe 2 piece good for a conversion?

scottycoyote

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have to say i love the look of the titleist conversions.....i saw an old hoppe from the 50s supposedly, 2 piece stick with brass, has the label on it. If i could get it cheap would it make a good conversion cue? I wanted a full splice cue. Also, any idea if the butts on those old cues were about the same size as todays, larger or smaller? Just thinking ahead.....any tips as to what i should be looking for would be most appreciated.
 
Titleist Conversion

scottycoyote said:
I have to say i love the look of the titleist conversions.....i saw an old hoppe from the 50s supposedly, 2 piece stick with brass, has the label on it. If i could get it cheap would it make a good conversion cue? I wanted a full splice cue. Also, any idea if the butts on those old cues were about the same size as todays, larger or smaller? Just thinking ahead.....any tips as to what i should be looking for would be most appreciated.

I agree with you that they sure look good. :D Most things don't do too well after 50+ years. The glue they used in those days was not nearly as durable as today's epoxy and had a tentency to dry out and turn loose (thus the buzzing sound).

I would be interested to know why you want a a full splice cue when today's short splice cues (assuming they are done properly) play so good and offer large resistance to warpage if seasoned and stabilized wood is used.
 
scottycoyote said:
I have to say i love the look of the titleist conversions.....i saw an old hoppe from the 50s supposedly, 2 piece stick with brass, has the label on it. If i could get it cheap would it make a good conversion cue? I wanted a full splice cue. Also, any idea if the butts on those old cues were about the same size as todays, larger or smaller? Just thinking ahead.....any tips as to what i should be looking for would be most appreciated.
The butt sizes were much bigger back then. Which is great for the Key word (conversion)
Conversion means you can cut it to make the points longer and have room to offset it so you can even them up. Splice a new handle and add your own little touch to make it yours.
http://www.webbcues.com/images/cues2/Conversion-10-17-04.html
http://www.webbcues.com/images/cues2/Not-so-Sneaky-10-17-04.html
 
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Scotty-

I have been wanting to do the same for a couple of years now- Please share progress, as available!

-pige
 
Michael Webb said:
The butt sizes were much bigger back then. Which is great for the Key word (conversion)
Conversion means you can cut it to make the points longer and have room to offset it so you can even them up. Splice a new handle and add your own little touch to make it yours.
http://www.webbcues.com/images/cues2/Conversion-10-17-04.html
http://www.webbcues.com/images/cues2/Not-so-Sneaky-10-17-04.html

Even them up? Yes. Make points longer than they are originally? I don't think so. Cutting the cue down makes the points shorter.
 
Arnot Wadsworth said:
Even them up? Yes. Make points longer than they are originally? I don't think so. Cutting the cue down makes the points shorter.
Arnot, I am a very respectable person. So I won't respond to this but you are giving yourself away.
 
so does this mean the hoppe is as good or the same as a titleist for conversion puposes?....nobody really answered lol

arnot, ive just always heard that a full splice cue is the most solid hit you could have. Also Ive been wanting to have a custom cue made, and I just like the sense of history or nostalgia from shooting with a stick that old. I dont plan on ever not shooting pool, so if I like it ill keep it forever, if not im sure i can sell it if it was properly done.
 
scottycoyote said:
so does this mean the hoppe is as good or the same as a titleist for conversion puposes?....nobody really answered lol

arnot, ive just always heard that a full splice cue is the most solid hit you could have. Also Ive been wanting to have a custom cue made, and I just like the sense of history or nostalgia from shooting with a stick that old. I dont plan on ever not shooting pool, so if I like it ill keep it forever, if not im sure i can sell it if it was properly done.

Sorry about that, Yes.
 
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Hoppe/Titleist Conversion

scottycoyote said:
so does this mean the hoppe is as good or the same as a titleist for conversion puposes?....nobody really answered lol

arnot, ive just always heard that a full splice cue is the most solid hit you could have. Also Ive been wanting to have a custom cue made, and I just like the sense of history or nostalgia from shooting with a stick that old. I dont plan on ever not shooting pool, so if I like it ill keep it forever, if not im sure i can sell it if it was properly done.

When you convert either the Titleist or the Hoppe there are two considerations that concern me. The age of the cue (the glue they used at that time has a tendency to day out and fall out) and how well the cue was maintained for 50+ years. Even though I don't have time to do it any more I have converted a number of these cues successfully over the years.

I don't believe that long splice cues are the best hitting necessarily but don't take my word for it - go down to the nearest pool room and try out their house cues - they are all long splice cues. They make long splice cues because it is the least expensive way to make a cue not the best way.

Now, there are some very nice and very well made long splice cues. But the same goes for short splice cues. It has more to do with who makes the cue than whether it is long splice of short splice.

You could indeed have either of these cues converted by a good cuemaker with success.

Good luck in your quest,
 
Arnot Wadsworth said:
Even them up? Yes. Make points longer than they are originally? I don't think so. Cutting the cue down makes the points shorter.

I think Mr. Webb was refering to adding a piece of maple under the wrap to move the points up on the forearm, not physicaly make them longer. I do this but add it down by the butt peice so that it has as litte affect on the full splice as possible.

Now where is my soapbox. Ah here it is. Excuse me while I climb up on it.

I believe that conversions should only be done on Hoppe or Titleist (or any other historical) cues that are not usable or restorable. That way I am taking something old and giving it new life again and making it something that can be enjoyed once more. If you have a pristine Hoppe or Titleist it should be left that way and not cut up.

JMHO
 
Murray you are correct and as the samples I provided meant you have options. I did not mean to offend Arnot in any way possible. I like his work and totally respect him as a cuemaker. I hope this explains any confusion that may have been created.
 
scottycoyote said:
I have to say i love the look of the titleist conversions.....i saw an old hoppe from the 50s supposedly, 2 piece stick with brass, has the label on it. If i could get it cheap would it make a good conversion cue? I wanted a full splice cue. Also, any idea if the butts on those old cues were about the same size as todays, larger or smaller? Just thinking ahead.....any tips as to what i should be looking for would be most appreciated.

As a person that was in your shoes a few months back, I choose to go with a two piece I got cheap. I think the cuemaker will heavily influence the hit of the cue even if it is a full splice but section (taper of butt and shaft). I would recommend that you try a cue from the cuemaker prior to sending your titlist blank to him.

I now have a old double butterfly spliced cue from brunswick that I am going to find a cuemaker to convert at the expo.

If you would like some details regarding who I asked to complete the job for me and how things turned out send me a PM.
 
Michael Webb said:
Murray you are correct and as the samples I provided meant you have options. I did not mean to offend Arnot in any way possible. I like his work and totally respect him as a cuemaker. I hope this explains any confusion that may have been created.

I know that you meant no harm.

Nice looking examples you posted up. I have about 10 Titleists at home and I have never seen one with black veneers.
 
scottycoyote said:
I have to say i love the look of the titleist conversions.....i saw an old hoppe from the 50s supposedly, 2 piece stick with brass, has the label on it. If i could get it cheap would it make a good conversion cue? I wanted a full splice cue. Also, any idea if the butts on those old cues were about the same size as todays, larger or smaller? Just thinking ahead.....any tips as to what i should be looking for would be most appreciated.

Hi Scott,

I'm not a cuemaker, but I have some opinions with regards to the questions you've posed. Before I say anything though, my opinion is that if you find a gorgeous unrestored Hoppe/Titlist/26.5, you should keep it in it's original condition. Restore the broomsticks that sit in the closets or in old pool halls that are otherwise firewood. My 2c on the topic. Just to preface my comment, I currently own a conversion cue that was originally a Rambow!!! I wonder if any "new" cuemakers unknowingly converted a Balabushka???

1) From what I've been told, a one piece blank is almost always easier to convert. Especially if you want to retain the full splice. With a one piece stick, the cuemaker can decide where to place the joint to maintain some modern dimensions. I have a conversion cue with only a .720 joint and it just looks odd. It was made from a snooker cue. With the two piece cue, the cuemaker needs to remove the joint and pin which can be tedious. Also, if the butt is warped at all, it may then need to be cut down into a short splice (now a 3 pc assembly) and have a handle added. Once again, more work. Lastly, some grooves are cut too deep into the handle area so that the final turn to remove the groove may leave the butt a little thinner than preferable. You don't want a 1.1" butt when it's all said and done.

2) Generally speaking, the butt of these cues were much bigger than modern cues, but once again, you need to measure to be sure. If you have a caliper, check the diameter of the cue by where the "Willie Hoppe" stamp is. Make sure it is at least .850. Some cues tapered down sharply and that will affect the joint diameter. I like a "normal" sized joint. 1" looks weird, and so does .7". Doesn't sound like a lot of difference, but it is.

3) Tips!! Pick a blank with the best veneers/points that you can find. Earlier is usually better (quoting Bushka here). I've seen really great to really bad and when it's really bad, turning the blank down will reveal glue holes and poor laminations which might adversely affect the final cue. Look for the points to be nice and even (I prefer longer points) and look for sharp points down also. They tend to get slopply facing the butt of the cue. For me, I like the points up and down look which you don't get with short splices. Well.....not usually.

Pick the wood that you like. The blanks were made from everything oak, to rosewood, to walnut etc.... I just recently picked up some oak blanks which is new for me. Hope it's nice!!!

Weight!! I think the heavier the better. With one exception. A friend of mine had a 22oz baseball bat Titlist and it took the cuemaker a long time to remove the old cruddy weight bolt. It was turned out slowly over time which is a pain from what I've been told. A 13oz Titlist is probably not the "best" candidate for a conversion.

Condition. You don't want to convert a "mint" blank, but you also don't want a blank that has been stored outside, is seriously warped, or has cracks or broken veneers. But if the wood is straight and has been for the last 60yrs. then it's a good bet that it will stay straight for another 60yrs.

Hope I've helped. Please chime in cuemakers if I've left anything out!!

sherwin
 
thanks everybody.....and thanks sherwin for your post.......gives me alot to think about. If i can steal a nice one on ebay or something I may go for it, then if it doesnt pan out i wont have lost much. Sounds like id be better off buying a conversion from a cuemaker whos already bought the blank and knows what he has to work with, since I know nothing of cuemaking. Thanks again
 
Murray Tucker said:
I know that you meant no harm.

Nice looking examples you posted up. I have about 10 Titleists at home and I have never seen one with black veneers.

There was an American company in the late 70's and early 80's that made their own version of a Titleist. The veneer colors are what you see. These were two of them and just like the Brunswicks you have to even the points up.
 
Michael Webb said:
There was an American company in the late 70's and early 80's that made their own version of a Titleist. The veneer colors are what you see. These were two of them and just like the Brunswicks you have to even the points up.

I've seen Adams blanks with black veneers. According to Joel Hercek, some of the later Brunswick Hoppes were actually constructed by Adams. See here:

http://www.wuscues.com/Burnswick/brunswick002.htm

Also, Schmelke produced blanks that were very similar to the Titlists. The classic Titlists had the following veneer combinations: purple, green, mahogany, maple. Many of the Schmelkes also used that combination.

I just found this picture from two 2-pc Hoppes that were converted. Both blanks had very different points even though they were made about the same time.

sherwin
 

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I am new to most of this so please forgive a stupid question or two.

So a conversion is taking a older one piece cue and converting it to a more modern dimensioned 2 or 2+ piece cue?

Also, is the shaft section of the original just discarded and only the butt section retained, mating it with a new shaft?

Thanks
Tim
 
olgoat said:
I am new to most of this so please forgive a stupid question or two.

So a conversion is taking a older one piece cue and converting it to a more modern dimensioned 2 or 2+ piece cue?

Also, is the shaft section of the original just discarded and only the butt section retained, mating it with a new shaft?

Thanks
Tim
You are correct on both points.
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
 
FYI my friend I have a Brunswick Titleist Willie Hoppe that was just refinished, new shaft, purple heart, the butt is much thicker than today's cues, would you be interested in pics at all?
 
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