Is anything sacred any more?
- Thread starter RocketQ
- Start date
Cuedog said:
Glen, I understand what you are saying, I just dont understand why it is so important to keep cue making information a secret.
The internet is all about information.
This forum is all about sharing information.
I think that is a good thing.
I seriously doubt that ANY information posted here has ever hindered the buying and selling of pool cues.
The people that are making all the noise about the material cost are not the kind of buyers that make up the bulk of my sales.
Some of them have no intention of buying anything but instead just want to start controversy.
They are not hard to spot and easy to ignore.
I do not really see ANY harm done to anyone but do see a lot of help to those that come here seeking information.
Like I said ... if a cue maker wants to keep something private he has many way to communicate the information securely.
If someone feels the need to belong to a closed, select, privileged, secret society there are plenty of those around and they are easily found.
It does not really matter to me if there is a special group started here.
I have the choice to join it or not (just like I have the choice to read a thread or not) and seriously doubt that I would.
How would you feel if a special group was started here and YOU were deemed unworthy because another member did not like you?
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What sets the price of a cue is demand.
As a cue maker I can only make so many per year.
If I were to get flooded with orders and the number exceeded what I could produce that price would rise until the the orders declined.
If the demand dropped so would the price.
In other words the price can be used as a tool to control the number of orders.
As a cue maker I can only make so many per year.
If I were to get flooded with orders and the number exceeded what I could produce that price would rise until the the orders declined.
If the demand dropped so would the price.
In other words the price can be used as a tool to control the number of orders.
Flex said:
Nevertheless, I Googled Winchester, and from what I could find out, are still in business:
http://www.winchesterguns.com/
Flex
FYI:
Press Release
Winchester Super X3 the Fastest Shotgun in the World!
April 11, 2007
MORGAN, UTAH? World record holding Xtreme Sport Shooter Patrick Flanigan fires 12 shells in just 1.442 seconds with the Winchester Super X3 Shotgun!
With just a few hours of familiarization time behind the trigger of his brand new Winchester Super X3 shotgun, Xtreme Sport Shooter Patrick Flanigan was able to fire a dozen Winchester AA 12 gauge shells in an astonishing 1.442 seconds, timed from first to last shot. The Winchester Super X3 used by Flanigan was not specially modified in any way other than having an extended magazine to allow for firing 12 shots.
?The formula for success is simple,? stated Flanigan. ?Xtreme reliability combined with minimal felt recoil equals super xtreme speed. That?s why the Winchester Super X3 is the world?s fastest shooting shotgun.?
The feat occurred on the morning of April 3, 2007, in Morgan, Utah, during the taping of a new Winchester Rifles and Shotguns TV commercial and was captured on videotape. A PACT MK IV XP electronic timing system capable of timing individual shots to 1/1,000th of a second was used to verify the incredible rapid fire string. Digital still photos and video clips of the action are available at www.winchesterguns.com and at www.patrickflanigan.com.
The interval times between Flanigan?s 12 shots were as follows:
* Shot #1 0.000 Interval 0.000 Seconds
* Shot #2 0.146 Interval 0.146 Seconds
* Shot #3 0.129 Interval 0.276 Seconds
* Shot #4 0.126 Interval 0.402 Seconds
* Shot #5 0.142 Interval 0.544 Seconds
* Shot #6 0.124 Interval 0.668 Seconds
* Shot #7 0.128 Interval 0.797 Seconds
* Shot #8 0.123 Interval 0.920 Seconds
* Shot #9 0.121 Interval 1.041 Seconds
* Shot #10 0.126 Interval 1.167 Seconds
* Shot #11 0.144 Interval 1.311 Seconds
* Shot #12 0.131 Interval 1.442 Seconds
(The rate of fire works out to 457 rounds per minute, about the same rate of fire as the 50 caliber Browning M2 belt-fed heavy machine gun.)
The Winchester Super X autoloading shotguns have long enjoyed a reputation for shooting speed, fast handling, natural pointability, exceptional reliability and soft felt recoil. The Winchester Super X3 is the latest model in the line and is available in wood-stocked field, black composite and camo composite waterfowl models.
Press Release
Winchester Super X3 the Fastest Shotgun in the World!
April 11, 2007
MORGAN, UTAH? World record holding Xtreme Sport Shooter Patrick Flanigan fires 12 shells in just 1.442 seconds with the Winchester Super X3 Shotgun!
With just a few hours of familiarization time behind the trigger of his brand new Winchester Super X3 shotgun, Xtreme Sport Shooter Patrick Flanigan was able to fire a dozen Winchester AA 12 gauge shells in an astonishing 1.442 seconds, timed from first to last shot. The Winchester Super X3 used by Flanigan was not specially modified in any way other than having an extended magazine to allow for firing 12 shots.
?The formula for success is simple,? stated Flanigan. ?Xtreme reliability combined with minimal felt recoil equals super xtreme speed. That?s why the Winchester Super X3 is the world?s fastest shooting shotgun.?
The feat occurred on the morning of April 3, 2007, in Morgan, Utah, during the taping of a new Winchester Rifles and Shotguns TV commercial and was captured on videotape. A PACT MK IV XP electronic timing system capable of timing individual shots to 1/1,000th of a second was used to verify the incredible rapid fire string. Digital still photos and video clips of the action are available at www.winchesterguns.com and at www.patrickflanigan.com.
The interval times between Flanigan?s 12 shots were as follows:
* Shot #1 0.000 Interval 0.000 Seconds
* Shot #2 0.146 Interval 0.146 Seconds
* Shot #3 0.129 Interval 0.276 Seconds
* Shot #4 0.126 Interval 0.402 Seconds
* Shot #5 0.142 Interval 0.544 Seconds
* Shot #6 0.124 Interval 0.668 Seconds
* Shot #7 0.128 Interval 0.797 Seconds
* Shot #8 0.123 Interval 0.920 Seconds
* Shot #9 0.121 Interval 1.041 Seconds
* Shot #10 0.126 Interval 1.167 Seconds
* Shot #11 0.144 Interval 1.311 Seconds
* Shot #12 0.131 Interval 1.442 Seconds
(The rate of fire works out to 457 rounds per minute, about the same rate of fire as the 50 caliber Browning M2 belt-fed heavy machine gun.)
The Winchester Super X autoloading shotguns have long enjoyed a reputation for shooting speed, fast handling, natural pointability, exceptional reliability and soft felt recoil. The Winchester Super X3 is the latest model in the line and is available in wood-stocked field, black composite and camo composite waterfowl models.
My finger doesn't work that fast anymore.
<~~~takes much longer when sitting down than it used to also..........
<~~~takes much longer when sitting down than it used to also..........
I've enlarged the points you made that I'll address briefly.WilleeCue said:
Sales of cues and cue repair and/or enhancements, are hindered plenty by the knowledge of the price of materials. It's a growing trend that can't be ignored. You don't have to be an a-hole to "make noise about the material cost" as it pertains to your impending purchase. Motivated buyers are now inquiring about this because it has become an issue because of the lack of emphasis on craftsmanship related costs.
The "Ask The Cuemaker" forum should never be done away with. It opens doors as well as provides an open window into the behind the scenes world of cuemaking/cue repair.
I am completely baffled by your last two points. If a cuemakers/cue repairman's forum was formed, why would that be such a bad thing that you would refuse to join?
Finally, your question to me was: "How would you feel if a special group was started here and YOU were deemed unworthy because another member did not like you?"
Who said that a cuemakers/cue repairman's forum should be opened because we don't like our customers?
Gene
dave sutton
Banned
WilleeCue said:
nope sarah winchester. san jose cali
Cuedog said:
I think that I prefer "choosing not to join" instead of "refusing to join" even if they mean the same thing. (I might not even get invited to join)
It is just that I see no value in joining a group like that.
I have the contact phone numbers of many cue makers if I want a private conversation about where to get something or how to do it.
Will an special group offer me more than that?
Also there is already a special group of cue makers on Yahoo Groups.
You must be approved to join that group.
It very seldom has a new post.
That is why starting a group here limited to repair and makers is a waste of time. That is just my humble opinion.
I dont know who said that ... did I?
What I was saying was that if someone did not like YOU they could block YOU from joining the elite group and that would not make YOU feel so good .. would it ... :sorry:
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I am strickly a customer here a "cue nut" so to say. No vested business intrest just a luv of nice cues and an appricaition for craftsmanship.
I for one have been grateful for this forum.
Many years ago there was a cue trade show that came to Orlando boy was I excited only 30 mins away and a chance to meet all these great cuemakers face to face and talk to them. But the show at NO TIME was going to be "open to the public" strickly a time for behind the door wheely dealies(wholsale transactions).
I was just MAD that on the last day after all these private deals went down the show wasn't open to the public (with the retail prices posted of course).
A chance for me to see, touch, and compare cues and meet cuemakers first hand not on a 14" computer screen.
Since I'm quite the "cue nut" no obsticale is to great I was able to aquire a pass. OMG a common everyday customer a "spy" so to say was going to see these "private deals".
We the cuemakers will be ruined and the world will stop turning on its axis...Guess what somehow it kept turning.
I'm not saying it wasn't a learning experience and eye opening to say the least. But I'm smart enough to know you have a right and deserve to make money on what you create and build and (business is business).
You don't come to me and complain about what I make to load hydrogen on a rocket altough I do think you should't get hazard pay in cuemaking till the day when you make a mistake it leaves a hole in the ground the size of brooklyn.
What I found out is that some of you that I thought were a-holes online after I met in person found to be quite Nice and some that online seemed really nice were in fact a-holes.... Plus as you cuemakers already know that some customers online seem very nice are really well....YOU KNOW
I for one appriciate the knowlege the information I get and hope it doesn't stop. I'm currently designing "MY" perfect cue just for me. I'm trying to combine New age techniques and materials I use on my job plus the years of knowlege you guys have obtained. If some you help great if not thats fine also.
Plus remember once I've "nailed down" all 10,000 variables you have to consider and determine whatever "crazy" concept is feazable. I still have to pay one or two of you guys to build it.
If I happen to know how much the "raw" materials cost I'll play dumb..realizing there's a whole lot more that goes into building a cue than just raw materials.
IN MY OPINION some cuemakers are overpriced, some are underpriced,some are nice some are not, some are master craftsman,some are not.
This forum helps me to destinguish and choose the right "fit" for what I need.
Don't ever jepordize your livlyhood.
I for one have been grateful for this forum.
Many years ago there was a cue trade show that came to Orlando boy was I excited only 30 mins away and a chance to meet all these great cuemakers face to face and talk to them. But the show at NO TIME was going to be "open to the public" strickly a time for behind the door wheely dealies(wholsale transactions).
I was just MAD that on the last day after all these private deals went down the show wasn't open to the public (with the retail prices posted of course).
A chance for me to see, touch, and compare cues and meet cuemakers first hand not on a 14" computer screen.
Since I'm quite the "cue nut" no obsticale is to great I was able to aquire a pass. OMG a common everyday customer a "spy" so to say was going to see these "private deals".
We the cuemakers will be ruined and the world will stop turning on its axis...Guess what somehow it kept turning.
I'm not saying it wasn't a learning experience and eye opening to say the least. But I'm smart enough to know you have a right and deserve to make money on what you create and build and (business is business).
You don't come to me and complain about what I make to load hydrogen on a rocket altough I do think you should't get hazard pay in cuemaking till the day when you make a mistake it leaves a hole in the ground the size of brooklyn.
What I found out is that some of you that I thought were a-holes online after I met in person found to be quite Nice and some that online seemed really nice were in fact a-holes.... Plus as you cuemakers already know that some customers online seem very nice are really well....YOU KNOW
I for one appriciate the knowlege the information I get and hope it doesn't stop. I'm currently designing "MY" perfect cue just for me. I'm trying to combine New age techniques and materials I use on my job plus the years of knowlege you guys have obtained. If some you help great if not thats fine also.
Plus remember once I've "nailed down" all 10,000 variables you have to consider and determine whatever "crazy" concept is feazable. I still have to pay one or two of you guys to build it.
If I happen to know how much the "raw" materials cost I'll play dumb..realizing there's a whole lot more that goes into building a cue than just raw materials.
IN MY OPINION some cuemakers are overpriced, some are underpriced,some are nice some are not, some are master craftsman,some are not.
This forum helps me to destinguish and choose the right "fit" for what I need.
Don't ever jepordize your livlyhood.
Just clarify my earlier statement, I did incorrectly state that they went out of business.
From USAToday 01-18-2006:
"Once the U.S. Repeating Arms plant closes March 31, the only new rifles carrying the famous Winchester name will be the modern, high-end models produced in Belgium, Japan and Portugal. The older models, including the famous Winchester Model 94, will be scrapped.
"The name will continue, but not with those traditional products," said Robert Sauvage, a spokesman for the Herstal Group, the Belgian company that owns U.S. Repeating Arms and the right to the Winchester name"
from Wikipedia:
" The End of an Era
On January 16, 2006 U.S. Repeating Arms announced it was closing the New Haven, Connecticut plant where Winchester rifles and shotguns were produced for 140 years.[1] Along with the closing of the plant, the Model 94 rifle (the descendant of the original Winchester rifle), Model 70 rifle and Model 1300 shotgun would be discontinued.
A New Era
On August 15, 2006, Olin Corporation, owner of the Winchester trademarks, announced that it had entered into a new license agreement with Browning to make Winchester brand rifles and shotguns, though not at the closed Winchester plant in New Haven. Browning, based in Morgan, Utah, and the former licensee, U.S. Repeating Arms Company, are both subsidiaries of FN Herstal."
They closed the New Haven plant that made them, and all equipment was auctioned off. They are now being manufactured as of August 2006, under license to Browning, so Yes, Technically, the winchester name is still is in the marketplace, but to me it's not the same, IMO.
Dave
From USAToday 01-18-2006:
"Once the U.S. Repeating Arms plant closes March 31, the only new rifles carrying the famous Winchester name will be the modern, high-end models produced in Belgium, Japan and Portugal. The older models, including the famous Winchester Model 94, will be scrapped.
"The name will continue, but not with those traditional products," said Robert Sauvage, a spokesman for the Herstal Group, the Belgian company that owns U.S. Repeating Arms and the right to the Winchester name"
from Wikipedia:
" The End of an Era
On January 16, 2006 U.S. Repeating Arms announced it was closing the New Haven, Connecticut plant where Winchester rifles and shotguns were produced for 140 years.[1] Along with the closing of the plant, the Model 94 rifle (the descendant of the original Winchester rifle), Model 70 rifle and Model 1300 shotgun would be discontinued.
A New Era
On August 15, 2006, Olin Corporation, owner of the Winchester trademarks, announced that it had entered into a new license agreement with Browning to make Winchester brand rifles and shotguns, though not at the closed Winchester plant in New Haven. Browning, based in Morgan, Utah, and the former licensee, U.S. Repeating Arms Company, are both subsidiaries of FN Herstal."
They closed the New Haven plant that made them, and all equipment was auctioned off. They are now being manufactured as of August 2006, under license to Browning, so Yes, Technically, the winchester name is still is in the marketplace, but to me it's not the same, IMO.
Dave