Is Cypress a good choice for butt components??
- Thread starter tg_vegas
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I've used a lot of it in the past for millwork.
It is a softwood, and somewhat brash. Related to redwood, though more dense, OG heartwood is oilier.
It would be about like making a cue out of kabab pine or sugar pine, though a little prettier.
In case that is not clear - i like cypress a lot.
It would be way down my list for a cue butt wood.
It is a softwood, and somewhat brash. Related to redwood, though more dense, OG heartwood is oilier.
It would be about like making a cue out of kabab pine or sugar pine, though a little prettier.
In case that is not clear - i like cypress a lot.
It would be way down my list for a cue butt wood.
Pretty much if you couldn't make a nice sounding musical instrument with it you wouldn't want it as a primary cue component.
Would
Wouldn't you have to kiln the crap out of that to remove the oils and moisture?? Otherwise it'll bleed unless damn near torrified, I think??
DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
Is that why spruce is so popular in cues? It works for million dollar violins, surely it's the best wood for all the zero cues made of it.
Probably a good reason for that. Supposed good furniture wood.
Stick with your rosewoods, ebony, PH, hard maples and numerous other good hardwoods for cues and you can't go wrong.
If you feel like experimenting with soft/lighter woods (even if cored with a better hardwood) try one and see how you like.
Most of the builders with any experience have been there and done that.
Not the type of feel in a cue produced for most players.
I guess that's why there are 22 different softness/hardness to tips tho.
As always, all of my opinion is debatable.
did I say zero musical instruments were made of spruce,,,,,,,,,,,,, "pretty much" means most,,,,,,,,,,, like most tonal woods work for pool cues,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, not ALL. PRK
DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
No, you didn't. I said that I've never heard of a spruce cue, even tho spruce is an excellent tone wood. I hear lots of people claim that tone woods make better cues
Like many things about cues, nothing is ever scientifically tested.
Tells you what I know. Had no clue they used any conifer woods in cues. I guess my cue preferences lie in a narrow range. Haven't explored what else I'd out there. Kind of a 'if it ain't broke thang'. Lol.
So I'll shut up and read what the experts have to say and maybe I'll learn something new.
Jooc... Are the zeros snooker cues or across the pond made stuff??
Do they use cypress in any of them?? Love to see the grain patterns... Esp if the were somehow able to incorporate the 'Knees' in the construction.
DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
What I was saying is that being a rival wood that can make great instruments is not a concern for cues.
I've never seen a cue made of spruce, but many instruments in the violin family have spruce tops and backs.
Zero is referring to the number of cues made from spruce.
Duh. Ok. I'm not the sharpest pencil in the box. More like that grubby lil crayon rollin' around in the bottom.
My brother attempted to turn some redwood, back b4 all the legalities were enacted and you could still obtain it.
As far as cues go, it didn't stack up to hard maple, which surprised me. Ima big redwood fan, but all mine's in furniture.
What "legalities"?
The fact that people can no longer poach it from state and federal parks & get away with it?
There's still redwood out there, but the fact is that it was not "legalities" that made it unavailable in sizes and quantities we used to get as recently as 15 - 20 years ago. It is the fact that we actually ran out of those kind of trees. We wantonly used it up, mostly with bad practice in the 19th c, and then rather opportunistically throughout the 20th c. There now won't be any more big, tight grain, old growth for another few hundred years, and even that partly depends on climate change.
Redwood does grow like a weed in the right places, though, so now what is harvested is from newer, faster growing trees and not as large pieces as the old stuff; and big wide grain, lot of stress in the lumber. Lots of knotty 2 x 4's; not many if any clear 2 x 12's. The stashes of old stuff command ever higher $ amount. There are a few isolated private timber lands with pockets of OG redwoods, but now they know how to optimize price, *if* they harvest any.
On that note & per these posts, OG vertical grain RW is the current hot tonewood for guitar tops. I still have a couple hundred bd ft of 8/4 clear all heart vertical grain redwood if you seriously want to buy some. No cut pieces. Shortest here is about 15', longest 20'.
I've always wondered why spruce, OG straight grain cypress, or doug fir was not used for shafts - sort of nature's carbon fiber with excellent strength to weight ratio (low mass shafts). My best guess is splinters. Maple smooths out with use. Most stiff/strong softwoods with prominent growth rings shell and get splintery.
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Don't misconstrue.
I'm a fan of those giants. I thot redwood was off limits everywhere. Had no clue you could still get any or buy it anywhere.
Thanks for the insight!!
Happy holidays y'all!!
Btw .. I didn't think any softwood would be used in applications requiring repeated use or wear. Had no idea fine instruments were made from them. Figured hardwood would hold up better over time and use. I wish I had a need for what you have stashed. That's for sure!! The grain is usually large and widely spaced, is it not?? Does it expand w humidity and temp changes??
I'm not an expert, and I live in the Midwest. Only way I'm gonna see large spruce or redwoods is on a postcard. Lol.
Would redwood sound good in a violin or guitar... Any string instrument like that??
Most stringed instruments have softwood tops, because softwood is light, very stiff and strong for its weight (vibrates well). Alpine spruce is traditional for violins/violas/cellos/stand-up basses mostly because it was the stiffest wood for weight in the world such instruments were invented.
US makers added Engelman spruce, and Sitka spruce. Sitka spruce is sort of the international standard for strength and stiffness to weight. It was used for wooden airplanes, and still is. It's a phenomenal spar wood, but is also getting scarce in the sizes and cuts that make it cost efficient as opposed to materials efficient. Sitka is a benchmark wood, in tonewoods, my impression is that most of it now goes to Asia for making pianos and stringed instruments so they can ship them back to us. Eastern cedar, the kind formerly used in canoes & is white, is also a big tonewood. (NOT juniper, the knotty "red cedar" stuff that is used for chests and to line closets).
In recent years, redwood and sometimes western red cedar have become the chi chi tonewoods for many high end custom guitars. Since an individual beam from a bridge, mine, or tunnel somewhere can sometimes yield hundreds of guitar sets, the really chic redwoods have names like "Lucky Strike" "Tunnel" and i forget the bridge one. etc, etc. "Sinker" redwood used to be hot, but some high end makers sort of disproved it was good for tops compared to redwood that had not been sunk underwater for a few decades. And of course all of those woods can also be had torrefied. Like cues, depends where you think the magic will come from.
New/recent growth redwood generally has widely spaced grain lines because they grow like a weed in more open spaces.
Old growth redwood, like most of us save, has very fine, closely space grain lines because the giants grew in forests where a sapling had to grow straight up to get any light, and then spent centuries competing with the trees around it to add girth through soil nutrients, light, and weather.
This is the kind used for tonewoods. Tops are all quarter sawn, and the best are fine grain, straight up and down vertical grain.
Backs are dense hardwoods, like Brazilian rosewood, Madagascar Rosewood, Ziricote, cocobola, sometimes wenge, ebony or Macassar ebony, etc, etc.
The dense backs reflect and emphasize the vibrations from the stiff tops. Maple and birch have been used. and a range of other cue woods. Some guitars are made with softer, traditional woods like mahogany, for a different tone/sound, etc. I am not a luthier, but the only hardwoods i know of ever being used for tops are sometimes mahogany, and occasionally Koa. It's like cues, in a way - Koa has a better rep for appearance, than it does for hit.
This is why i have trouble cutting up boards for cues - wide, thick, dry, blanks are worth a lot more for tonewoods so long as they are quite close to being quarter sawn. Like cues, people appear to spend a lot for looks, so the backs are not as critical as tops for being dead vertical grain - a little off vertical sometime yields more interest, and in scarcer wood like BRW, even stump wood is used because it is so stunning in appearance and apparently fine or better for tone, as well.
US makers added Engelman spruce, and Sitka spruce. Sitka spruce is sort of the international standard for strength and stiffness to weight. It was used for wooden airplanes, and still is. It's a phenomenal spar wood, but is also getting scarce in the sizes and cuts that make it cost efficient as opposed to materials efficient. Sitka is a benchmark wood, in tonewoods, my impression is that most of it now goes to Asia for making pianos and stringed instruments so they can ship them back to us. Eastern cedar, the kind formerly used in canoes & is white, is also a big tonewood. (NOT juniper, the knotty "red cedar" stuff that is used for chests and to line closets).
In recent years, redwood and sometimes western red cedar have become the chi chi tonewoods for many high end custom guitars. Since an individual beam from a bridge, mine, or tunnel somewhere can sometimes yield hundreds of guitar sets, the really chic redwoods have names like "Lucky Strike" "Tunnel" and i forget the bridge one. etc, etc. "Sinker" redwood used to be hot, but some high end makers sort of disproved it was good for tops compared to redwood that had not been sunk underwater for a few decades. And of course all of those woods can also be had torrefied. Like cues, depends where you think the magic will come from.
New/recent growth redwood generally has widely spaced grain lines because they grow like a weed in more open spaces.
Old growth redwood, like most of us save, has very fine, closely space grain lines because the giants grew in forests where a sapling had to grow straight up to get any light, and then spent centuries competing with the trees around it to add girth through soil nutrients, light, and weather.
This is the kind used for tonewoods. Tops are all quarter sawn, and the best are fine grain, straight up and down vertical grain.
Backs are dense hardwoods, like Brazilian rosewood, Madagascar Rosewood, Ziricote, cocobola, sometimes wenge, ebony or Macassar ebony, etc, etc.
The dense backs reflect and emphasize the vibrations from the stiff tops. Maple and birch have been used. and a range of other cue woods. Some guitars are made with softer, traditional woods like mahogany, for a different tone/sound, etc. I am not a luthier, but the only hardwoods i know of ever being used for tops are sometimes mahogany, and occasionally Koa. It's like cues, in a way - Koa has a better rep for appearance, than it does for hit.
This is why i have trouble cutting up boards for cues - wide, thick, dry, blanks are worth a lot more for tonewoods so long as they are quite close to being quarter sawn. Like cues, people appear to spend a lot for looks, so the backs are not as critical as tops for being dead vertical grain - a little off vertical sometime yields more interest, and in scarcer wood like BRW, even stump wood is used because it is so stunning in appearance and apparently fine or better for tone, as well.
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