Is Efren Better Than Ever?

Rick.horn

New member
Is Efren Better Than Ever

Let me put it this way. It doesn't matter if he's not quite as great as he once was, if he's playing somewhere in my State, I'm going to watch him from the time he starts to the time he quits.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
I think when Efren said essentially "You should have seen me before-I was better then" It was basically just kinda 'puffery'. Besides 'one's self' is not always the best judge of 'one's self'. Almost never in fact.

I think he was playing his best from the time he got here through 2005 or so imho. He won the DCC 9 ball in 2005 and 2010! 250/300 players probably.

As has been said it was just too bad that he played during the time that 9 Ball was king as his break was average at best.

Same can be said of Pagualyan. He owned the best "after the break" skills in his era, but his break wasn't good enough to mass-produce titles the way an SVB could. Best one pocket player of his own generation for sure,just like Efren.

Like you, I've often heard that Efren played his best pool in his youth, but I'm not buying it. While it's quite possible that his shot execution skills were at their peak in his youth, his conceptualization skills (which we so often refer to as "imagination" and even "magic") rose and rose and rose from 1990-2005, and, even if his shot execution skills slipped a hair, his game got better.
I’ve been hearing this about Efren playing his best when he was young for years.
....I think it might be an ESL problem...
...most great players HIT the ball better when they were young...their priorities were to
make the shot...the game was simpler then.
..but as they become aware of the fact that parking whitey is an important part of every shot...
...and as they’re getting better position and not using that accuracy as much....
...they start to lose their keenness on shotmaking...
...but they’re much better players.

When Efren was young, he may have hit the ball purer, but a player five years older was
dominating the Phillippines....he had won 8 out of nine Japan tournaments ...large $$$$..
...Efren was at some of them.
That player was Jose Parica...and at that time, Efren was not better.

So while Efren was bemoaning that loss of purity of hit, he was becoming the Magician...
...admired by the pool world.
 

Renegade

Consume Mass Quantities!
Silver Member
Like you, I've often heard that Efren played his best pool in his youth, but I'm not buying it. While it's quite possible that his shot execution skills were at their peak in his youth, his conceptualization skills (which we so often refer to as "imagination" and even "magic") rose and rose and rose from 1990-2005, and, even if his shot execution skills slipped a hair, his game got better.

My thoughts exactly!

And while he's currently not at his best EVER (a bit of clickbait hyperbole, I must admit), he certainly seems to be playing better now (specifically since his farewell tour last year) than he's been in recent years (even though my saying so is just based primarily on youtube videos). He's making shots now that I haven't seen him (or anyone else, for that matter) do in his older videos. Case in point:

https://youtu.be/tydl9LjdWfY

I'm just amazed that year after year of hearing that "he's lost it" or "he's past his prime", he still continues to surprise and prove everyone wrong, all at an age when he should be playing the senior tour.
 

trob

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Let me put it this way. It doesn't matter if he's not quite as great as he once was, if he's playing somewhere in my State, I'm going to watch him from the time he starts to the time he quits.

Hell yes.. you should. It would be like seeing Michael jordon at the end of his career. He might not have been what he was but you’ll get to see flashes of what he once was and always remember it.
 

trob

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My thoughts exactly!

And while he's currently not at his best EVER (a bit of clickbait hyperbole, I must admit), he certainly seems to be playing better now (specifically since his farewell tour last year) than he's been in recent years (even though my saying so is just based primarily on youtube videos). He's making shots now that I haven't seen him (or anyone else, for that matter) do in his older videos. Case in point:

https://youtu.be/tydl9LjdWfY

I'm just amazed that year after year of hearing that "he's lost it" or "he's past his prime", he still continues to surprise and prove everyone wrong, all at an age when he should be playing the senior tour.

I’m sorry when has he proved anyone wrong? When’s the last time he won a major tournament? The us open? Derby city? Anything? Lol it’s putting him down saying he’s past his prime. He’s old.. like every human that walks this earth time catches up to you. I still love watching him but he’s not the best in the world any more.. and that’s ok. Nothing last’s forever. That’s life.
 

mikepage

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My thoughts exactly!

And while he's currently not at his best EVER (a bit of clickbait hyperbole, I must admit), he certainly seems to be playing better now (specifically since his farewell tour last year) than he's been in recent years (even though my saying so is just based primarily on youtube videos). He's making shots now that I haven't seen him (or anyone else, for that matter) do in his older videos. Case in point:

https://youtu.be/tydl9LjdWfY

I'm just amazed that year after year of hearing that "he's lost it" or "he's past his prime", he still continues to surprise and prove everyone wrong, all at an age when he should be playing the senior tour.


The data show some recent decline. Each dot here represents about 500 games, and if we were to put error bars on each point they might be about 12 points in either direction. So this is more or less 790 for a few years and then some decline.

If you look back at criticism of Fargo Ratings in this forum from a few years ago, one of the themes was how ridiculous it was that we had Efren at near or at world class. But he was in fact performing that strong
 

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Renegade

Consume Mass Quantities!
Silver Member
The data show some recent decline. Each dot here represents about 500 games, and if we were to put error bars on each point they might be about 12 points in either direction. So this is more or less 790 for a few years and then some decline.

If you look back at criticism of Fargo Ratings in this forum from a few years ago, one of the themes was how ridiculous it was that we had Efren at near or at world class. But he was in fact performing that strong

Cool! Are they averages? Which games are considered? Where can I see other players' ratings?
 

chas1022

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Reyes

He has such a knowledge of the game that it does seem he is just as good as he once was but he is not because you get older , your eyes go etc. it’s called Father Time nobody beats the clock When he was younger he relied on his shot making skills because he didn’t have as much knowledge about position. play,safety play and over all knowledge. But in time time he matured as a player to be one of the best ever. Back in the 80’s Mike Sigel was the best around at 9 ball and nobody was close to him at all. With all that I would drop everything to watch Reyes play again.
 

Renegade

Consume Mass Quantities!
Silver Member
He has such a knowledge of the game that it does seem he is just as good as he once was but he is not because you get older , your eyes go etc. it’s called Father Time nobody beats the clock When he was younger he relied on his shot making skills because he didn’t have as much knowledge about position. play,safety play and over all knowledge. But in time time he matured as a player to be one of the best ever. Back in the 80’s Mike Sigel was the best around at 9 ball and nobody was close to him at all. With all that I would drop everything to watch Reyes play again.

Yes, even Efren acknowledges that Mike was his favorite player. Which must have been bitter-sweet for him to win over Mike in the IPT.
 

john noe

Registered
"Long Live the King" well said my friend.

I think your right. He just seems to come to the table and does what Efren does.., out think everybody! I hope he never really retires or at lest continues to grace all of us with his presence from time to time.

Long Live the King!

He truly is the King. Only one player was barely better than him at only one game, nine ball. That player was Earl Srickland but only because of his superior break shot. Efren was king of one pocket, eight ball, and carom games.
 
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