Is It Always This Extreme?

D

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
ok, fellow pool enthusiasts and posters. i know everyone has heard me cry and complain about what horrible luck and rolls i have 95% of the time, or more. about how on most nights when i just want to rack and break i never get a shot, dont make balls, have extremely difficult spreads, get frustrated, throw balls, break cues (cheap ones), etc, etc.

this past saturday afternoon i racked and broke for over and hour and a half. finally managed to run one rack. again, 95% of the time i never had a chance to do anything due to all the bad rolls. it was very, very frustrating.

saturday night late, after the game, i came home and it was a different story. balls cooperated, got some decent rolls, ran a handful of racks, and went to bed a somewhat happier man.

then sunday was once again a horrible day. just kept getting bad rolls, balls would roll into the cue ball path alot, didnt make any balls, extremely difficult spreads, etc, etc. managed to only run out a couple of times the whole day after about 3 hours at the table.

do you other posters encounter these extremes like i do? how can things be soooo different? same table, same balls, same basic break shot, etc, etc. it gets really frustrating when the bad rolls/luck start, and then it just steamrolls on me. then i get mad, the mental game goes, i mess up a rack, and then i am done.

DCP

p.s. serious replies only, please.
 
Just quit the game, pool is not for you.

Try the debate club, at least when you cry there you get points.


p.s. you don't play well to begin with so that is where your problem is. Do you think that Archer would have the problems you have on your table
 
"the balls roll funny for everybody" -Fast Eddie.

Keep in mind, running out once in a hour and a half is more then what a lot of people who love pool can do. You should be thankful for the skill you have instead of complaining about bad rolls, turn your bad rolls into good rolls.

Also, listen to supportive people here and not to those that are negative to you.

Maybe you should try screwing around with your break and find a spot you can get consistant at. Also check the racks you are given in matches.
 
That's why I'm so much in favor of the push out/roll out. As far as I'm concerned, there is no other shot in pool that is so heavily dependant on luck than the 9 ball break! It happens even to Archer. And although I don't have any stats on it, I'm pretty sure that in the majority of the matches he's lost, his breaks weren't working well simply because he (like any other world class pro) can run out almost anything, but he's also human, and like any other top player, he can't run out the impossible racks. And the statement "his breaks weren't working well" that's exactly what I meant. Others might say "he wasn't breaking well" and I'd have to dissagree with that point of view. All players of that caliber break well, and some days the breaks work, and some days they don't. Sure, I change my break up by teaking the speed, english, CB placement, and sometimes I can find a sweetspot, but I still think that the 9 ball break is more vulnerable to luck than most people want to admit.
dave
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
ok, fellow pool enthusiasts and posters. i know everyone has heard me cry and complain about what horrible luck and rolls i have 95% of the time, or more. about how on most nights when i just want to rack and break i never get a shot, dont make balls, have extremely difficult spreads, get frustrated, throw balls, break cues (cheap ones), etc, etc.

this past saturday afternoon i racked and broke for over and hour and a half. finally managed to run one rack. again, 95% of the time i never had a chance to do anything due to all the bad rolls. it was very, very frustrating.

saturday night late, after the game, i came home and it was a different story. balls cooperated, got some decent rolls, ran a handful of racks, and went to bed a somewhat happier man.

then sunday was once again a horrible day. just kept getting bad rolls, balls would roll into the cue ball path alot, didnt make any balls, extremely difficult spreads, etc, etc. managed to only run out a couple of times the whole day after about 3 hours at the table.

do you other posters encounter these extremes like i do? how can things be soooo different? same table, same balls, same basic break shot, etc, etc. it gets really frustrating when the bad rolls/luck start, and then it just steamrolls on me. then i get mad, the mental game goes, i mess up a rack, and then i am done.

DCP

p.s. serious replies only, please.
Click to expand...


Until you figure out how to stop expecting to fail, you'll keep failing. I've read your posts for a long time, and frankly I don't have any advice for on how to change your extremely negative and pessimistic mindset, since it seems so deeply ingrained, but I think the only thing that will change your luck is to quit expecting everything to go wrong.

-Andrew
 
I'm with you Andrew, it's ***** moan ***** moan. Does Dr. Cue know that you come on here and act like this everytime you don't run out or scratch on the break?
 
OK, I have been critical in the past. I will be constructive. I am not kidding at all.

Your attitude sucks and it needs to change. The question is how to do it. I think the place to start is simply getting rational about it. You are not rational when you play or when you discuss it. Seriously. It is apparent to outside observers, and people try to point it out, and then the thread becomes an argument and you get the bad posts.

First, you need to understand luck. I don't think you do. Luck is not mystical or anything. I would suggest getting a book called Gambling Theory And Other Topics by Mason Malmuth. It has nothing to do with pool. What it will give you is a relatively easy to read look at how to quantify luck. You will see how rational people look at probability and quantify it. There is no mystical force behind it. There is no pool god. There is no karma etc.... The balls don't have a mind, they just react to being hit. The book also gives insight as to how different personalities react to the external conditions and luck.

Forget any psychological stuff that talks about inner peace, meditation, sprituality or whatever when it comes to pool. Think about your game rationally. You first need to get a realistic picture of how often the best players get a good layout after the break. Less than you think probably. Read some books, get the percentages. Then when you get on a roll, don't say you had a bad hour and a half. Say you had 47 bad breaks in a row. Now see if you can find out how much that is off from the percentage of the player you want to be. Write down your results for a while and know exactly. Then see if there is a common denominator. Then work at it. Find a way to improve.

Because it isn't the balls. It isn't the table. It isn't your cue. It is you. Until you address this fully and openly, i.e. accept it and face it coldly, you will always be in a rut. Once you do this, you will be able to address the mental game. You need to shift your outlook IMO before you can even begin to try to improve the mental game, because right now any positive thinking or mental tricks, NLP, self hypnosis, whatever, will just be a band aid not a cure.

Also posting about it is a negative symptom. When you have addressed the problem you won't feel the need.

Maybe read Moneyball as well if you have not. That is a book about applying human rationality to an endeavor people think has mystical qualities that aren't there in actuality. No sport has better numbers than baseball, learn how it took people a long time to see past the foggy mystical BS regarding the game.

Anything you can do to stay logical and rational will help. Because I think you are falling in the trap that most everyone does sometimes, but you are doing it more. Our brains have evolved to see and make patterns, and then sometimes we go wrong and see things that aren't there or fail to see the real cause. I think you are falling into this. Good Luck. Really.
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
ok, fellow pool enthusiasts and posters. i know everyone has heard me cry and complain about what horrible luck and rolls i have 95% of the time, or more. about how on most nights when i just want to rack and break i never get a shot, dont make balls, have extremely difficult spreads, get frustrated, throw balls, break cues (cheap ones), etc, etc.

this past saturday afternoon i racked and broke for over and hour and a half. finally managed to run one rack. again, 95% of the time i never had a chance to do anything due to all the bad rolls. it was very, very frustrating.

saturday night late, after the game, i came home and it was a different story. balls cooperated, got some decent rolls, ran a handful of racks, and went to bed a somewhat happier man.

then sunday was once again a horrible day. just kept getting bad rolls, balls would roll into the cue ball path alot, didnt make any balls, extremely difficult spreads, etc, etc. managed to only run out a couple of times the whole day after about 3 hours at the table.

do you other posters encounter these extremes like i do? how can things be soooo different? same table, same balls, same basic break shot, etc, etc. it gets really frustrating when the bad rolls/luck start, and then it just steamrolls on me. then i get mad, the mental game goes, i mess up a rack, and then i am done.

DCP

p.s. serious replies only, please.
Click to expand...

I will try and give you a serious reply.

1. Don't break cues. That is you, and your response. You can't always control the rolls, but you can control how you deal with them. If you insist on breaking cues, mail them to me parcel post, I will pay your shipping plus a quarter to alleviate your frustration.

2. Don't throw balls. That is you, and your response. You can't always control the rolls, but you can control how you deal with them.

3. Get frustrated. That is you, and your response. You can't always control the rolls, but you can control how you deal with them.

4. Have extremely difficult spreads. That is part of the game. Sometimes you can crack them and get out, sometimes you can't. Focus on making correct decisions when faced with difficult spreads.

5. Don't make balls (on the break I presume). Try and learn to read the rack a little. Change the way you break, vary it up until you find success and try and repeat that success.

6. Get bad rolls. Get better skills, get better cue ball control. Sometimes rolls happen because we don't ideally control the cue ball. It gets away from us, it runs into another ball, and you get hooked etc. I was playing an old fellow once many many years ago (better and wiser). I was running out, whitey hit another ball after the object ball. I got bad because of it and couldn't get out. I made comment about hitting the ball.. he simply said next time don't hit the ball. Do as much as you can to reduce chances of bad or good rolls.

7. Change your goals. I saw a piece done on a mountain climber once. I don't know his name, and it doesn't matter. His goal when climbing was not to get to the top. His goal was to climb the mountain perfectly, the placement of each hand, each foot, each move as clean and correct and perfect as he could based on each individual task at hand. Adopt that goal. Strive on making correct decisions and focus on the process and not the outcome.

8. Do less whining.

Kelly
 
DCP,

This is meant in all seriousness. Play the game, play the table, play your opponent. BUT STOP PLAYING WITH YOUR MIND! I honestly think a lot of the problems you post about are the result of you getting wound up mentally. Relax and just play the game.

Terry
 
Some people will tell you that your expectations of yourself are too low and that you need to improve your mental game by not being so "down" on yourself. Having read Pleasures of Small Motions, I tend to think the opposite: your expectations are too high for yourself. Clearly you don't have the skills to be a consistent run-out player... yet you beat yourself up when you don't run out! Think about that for a second and realize how unfair it is to yourself.

Unless you've practiced a shot hundreds of times, to the point where you can make it in your sleep, you have no reason to expect to make it consistently. Same thing goes for the break, position play, or any aspect of the game. It's all about setting your expectations to match your actual skill level... not your ideal skill level.

Also, keep in mind that just because you can run out once, doesn't mean that you should be able to run out every time. When I run out, I realize that's my peak game coming through -- and nobody, not even the pros, can expect to show their peak form every time at the table. That's why it's called a "peak". Most of the time you'll be somewhere below the peak. Sometimes very far below. Running out will also depend tremendously on the layout of the table and your ability to strategize around problem areas. Again, you need to have realistic expectations of your ability to handle these situations consistently.

So, get realistic with yourself, and if you don't want to get so many "bad rolls", start putting in the drill time to develop all aspects of your game. I recommend Black Belt Billiards. It will keep you busy for a very long time and bring out flaws in your game that you never noticed before. Good luck!
 
u12armresl said:
I'm with you Andrew, it's ***** moan ***** moan. Does Dr. Cue know that you come on here and act like this everytime you don't run out or scratch on the break?
Click to expand...

Well, I appreciate your agreement, but I think you're being overly harsh. You can say what you want, but if you want to put my name on it, keep your negative comments polite. Although my post was very critical of DCP's mindset, I was trying to say something constructive.

-Andrew
 
JPB said:
Your attitude sucks and it needs to change.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Tiger Woods hit the hole and the flagstick last year at The Masters and his ball found a terrible lie in the bunker (leading to a bogey) when he'd have likedly had an eagle or, at the least, a tap-in birdie. That's bad luck.

The Man did not complain. He looked at the flagstick in shock, accepted it, and moved on. And, of course, he won.

Was it also luck that his ball found the cup on the 16th in the final round after an incredible chip? Y'know, I think that it was 90% skill and 10% luck that, after pausing, it went in. But even still, those are two shots, and The Man hit them both.

You can't "control" luck, whatever your perception of it is. You can control you, and you seem to have none (no control) at this point.

There's a saying in golf (and I'm sure in other sports), and the basic version of it is that "better players make their own luck." In other words, a lesser player wouldn't have given the ball a chance to go in on 16. A lesser player would have folded up his tent after the ball leapt into the bunker in the first round and finished well back (or missed the cut).

Right now, you're a lesser player in that regard, which means that even a banger is a "better player" in regards to their outlook on the game if they accept that they make their own luck.

Pool is a simple game of physics. Even more so than golf given that a 150-yard shot, influenced by wind, green softness, etc. would have resulted in a two-shot swing if it had been one inch shorter, longer, left, or right. If you're not in command of the phsyics, you're not in command of the game.

Blaming it on luck is a cheap way out. It's the martyr approach. And most martyrs end up dead.
 
seems like i remember reading somewhere that top pool players make a ball on the break something like 20 to 30% of the time. Ok so that means out of 10 racks, the very top players only have even a chance to run out 2 or 3. And out of those 2 or 3 racks where they make a ball, how many times are they gonna have a runable table? I think your expectations are way too high for the game of 9 ball. I mean sure, everyones seen someone run a 3 or a 5 pack, but its not like they happen every day. I mean for 8 months out of the year I play 4 or 5 nights a week for 3 or 4 hours, and in the past 3 years ive run 2 3packs and 1 5pack that i recall. I think you need to stop focusing on what you make when you break and how many racks you run at home and start focusing on how often you beat someone. How often do i shut my oppenent out? How often do i lose to a guy I shouldnt? 9ball isnt all offense, its strategy, its safety play, its controlling the table. I think you need to switch to 6 ball if you are all about the break and run (and even then its hard to make something on the break).
 
Well I don't believe in luck. Everything happens for a reason!

Some people fear a cool draft will make them ill. The attract cool drafts and get sick.

If you fear and resent getting bad breaks, then they will be delivered to you until you conquer your fear.

What does it matter that the balls don't fall out as you wish? You know you cannot control it, and it will cost you nothing but the ongoing fight with your demons. Those demons are loving the fight with you.

Maybe you should break with the hope that you don't get a shot so you can practice your push outs.

I suspect you have a nagging doubt in your mind every time you break..thinking, what's gonna happen this time?

It will change when you don't care about that any longer, and just accept the bad breaks happily.

Luck favors the brave...the brave do not advance with trepidation or fear or doubt.
 
Here is a serious reply. Play the ghost. Break, take ball in hand and try to run out. It's not helping you to break all night and then try to run a couple racks. If you can beat the ghost consistently, you can try to break and run all night. Until then, you shouldn't even be practicing this way, as it's a waste of time.

You mention that you use the same break shot, etc. Have you tried changing the pace and breaking from different spots? If you are just going to try to break and run all night then you should at least know how to do read racks.


DrCue'sProtege said:
do you other posters encounter these extremes like i do? how can things be soooo different? same table, same balls, same basic break shot, etc, etc. it gets really frustrating when the bad rolls/luck start, and then it just steamrolls on me. then i get mad, the mental game goes, i mess up a rack, and then i am done.

DCP

p.s. serious replies only, please.
Click to expand...
 
Very, very good responses.

I can also recommend to watch some video of top players, who are currently on top of their game. Get some tapes of Archer, Bustaomonte, Reyes, Rempe, ect. You will see that even the cream of the crop cannot break and run out every rack, and get bad rolls, etc.

Keep in mind these are the best of the best.

Everybody misses shots.
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
ok, fellow pool enthusiasts and posters. i know everyone has heard me cry and complain about what horrible luck and rolls i have 95% of the time, or more. about how on most nights when i just want to rack and break i never get a shot, dont make balls, have extremely difficult spreads, get frustrated, throw balls, break cues (cheap ones), etc, etc.

this past saturday afternoon i racked and broke for over and hour and a half. finally managed to run one rack. again, 95% of the time i never had a chance to do anything due to all the bad rolls. it was very, very frustrating.

saturday night late, after the game, i came home and it was a different story. balls cooperated, got some decent rolls, ran a handful of racks, and went to bed a somewhat happier man.

then sunday was once again a horrible day. just kept getting bad rolls, balls would roll into the cue ball path alot, didnt make any balls, extremely difficult spreads, etc, etc. managed to only run out a couple of times the whole day after about 3 hours at the table.

do you other posters encounter these extremes like i do? how can things be soooo different? same table, same balls, same basic break shot, etc, etc. it gets really frustrating when the bad rolls/luck start, and then it just steamrolls on me. then i get mad, the mental game goes, i mess up a rack, and then i am done.

DCP

p.s. serious replies only, please.
Click to expand...

Your posts do become slightly annoying when you whine and cry. We have all been there though.

The balls are inanimate objects that only react to the cue ball - which you put into movement. The spread after the break is a reaction to table conditions, and YOUR break. If it isn't working then you need to change something. PERIOD. End of story.

Here is the attitude you need to take. Tell yourself, "I'm not going to allow emotion into it. I'm going to do my very best with what the table gives me." The only emotion I enjoy is getting pumped up - telling myself I CAN'T miss a ball which boosts my own confidence. I really don't know what else to tell you.
 
Unlucky? Unlikely.

iacas said:
There's a saying in golf (and I'm sure in other sports), and the basic version of it is that "better players make their own luck."
Click to expand...

"Luck is the residue of design." - Branch Rickey

"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it! The hard... is what makes it great!"
- Jimmy Dugan (Jimmie Foxx) League of Their Own

Amen.
 
DrCue:

How long have you been playing?

Do you play others or just practice alone?

What kind of equipment do you use?

I don't know that Dr. Cue would want you calling yourself his protege until you can play a little bit better.

These questions can help us decipher HOW you should play, versus how YOU think you should be playing.

Matt
 
Here is my take on this.

Your tendency to focus on the negative has been adequately covered in this and other threads so I won’t beat that horse.

One other factor I see is that you primarily play alone, occasionally playing “Dave” the ex 8 ball champion. Usually however you play alone, therefore your expectations for how you should be playing mainly comes from reading or watching videos and to some extent how “Dave” plays, none of which are realistic expectations. Play in a weekly league, play in as many tournaments as you can, play other people and then you will begin to get a handle on how real people really play this game.

And by all means STOP playing the 9 ball ghost all the time, find some other exercises that build confidence and don’t take it away.
 
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