Is there a way to estimate your APA skill level

trob said:
Typical apa ... Lol lose your first match. I don't give a shit what my rating is. My goal is to destroy everyone I play. Period. if that raises me and and I have to play tougher matches then so be it. I play to compete and be pushed to get better not sand bag.

Btw I've only played 6 matches in apa 9 ball. You can come In at a 4 but know players can be brought in higher. I was brought in at a 7 and expect to end up an 8.
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I totally agree with this. I just went back to playing APA last week. I play to win, no matter what. I freely tell the admitted sand-baggers how I feel about them as well...:thumbup:
 
I think it is funny all threads about the APA turn into threads about sand bagging. Play as well as you can every time you play and everything will take care of itself. To the guy who said the only way to make it to Nationals is to sandbag is just plain wrong. The best team I was ever on finished 33rd at Nationals out of 525 teams. We didn't have a single player raised during area play. We had one player on the team bumped from a 4 to a 5 at Nationals in the second round. He didnt win a single match at Nationals as a 5. If he was sandbagging, then he would still have been able to win as a 5. Granted he was a strong 4 but could not compete as a 5 against strong competition. We won more than a couple rounds after that to make it as far as we did.

There are many things which go into having a team that can do well at Nationals. One thing nobody really adresses is team chemistry. I have been on both ends of that and teams where everyone is friends and do things other than play pool together play much better as a team. Again you dont have to sandbag to have a strong team. Yes you need to have players who play well at their skill level but that doesnt make them sandbaggers.
 
justadub said:
No, everyone DOESN'T "game the system."

And we don't just play for fun, either. I may not win, but I didn't cheat to get there.
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I think if you play in the APA and your top priority is something other than to have fun then you're probably in the wrong organization. I love to play and I'd rather win than lose, but I play in the APA specifically because it's not a money league. I have found that the moment money gets put into the conversation the bastard quotient goes up about 1000 points, friendships go out the window and money changes the game completely. Some people are excellent money players, and some people see money and they lose their minds. I've been in the APA since it was the Busch league and I have never played in the National Tournament. Years ago when I was a win at all costs guy I was a premium sandbagger but trying to beat the system just takes too much work and thought. For those of you that think they know the APA formula I'd really like to know your resource. I'd like to think that I know it, I have written documentation to that effect and a very reliable source but it's huge pain in the ass to keep track of and in the end I could be wrong anyhow. If you feel like you need to lose a match to keep your S/L down play a player that's better than you are but play your best and normal game, but don't expect to change your S/L in one or two matches. The system isn't fair to everyone, I've played people from other parts of the country that were the same S/L as me that were so much better it was hard to believe, and some that were so bad that was also hard to believe. Sure the APA has it's issues, but it's what we have. I think if you're as serious as justadub seems to be then maybe you want to play in an organization other than the APA. As far as what skill level you are, play by yourself for a while, play honestly, play 8 ball. Break your rack and play against yourself like you'd play in a real match, if you're finishing your game in a typical 3 - 4 innings, you're probably about an S/L 4 -5, more than 6 innings you're likely an S/L 3ish, if you're breaking and running about 2 of every three or 4 racks it's safe to say you're a 6-7, your 9 ball S/L is typically an S/L higher than your 8, this isn't always true, but it's sort of a rule of thumb. Of course more goes into it that just that but that should give you some idea. But try to have fun, ignore the innings and the assholes, try to win, and hopefully you'll be playing with people that have something in their lives besides pool, that can grow old awful fast.
 
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americanfighter said:
I am going to get involved in the APA here in a few weeks and I was wondering if there was a way for me to estimate what my skill level is. I have read some drills online however in a game like 9 I am a rather defensive player and those drills don't take defense into account.

On other run out drills I tend to fall under a lower skill lever than I know and others say I should be. So what is the most accurate way to predict what your skill level will be in the APA?

Thanks

AF
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Find a APA player and do a race against them with you playing a a SL4.
 
the first match i ever played i lost badly. got moved to a 2. the second match i was playing great got moved to a 6. I felt so bad for the girl i played against during second match she hardly had a chance to shoot. Point being for the first few games there's going to be lots of variation.
 
zpele said:
Hence the reason I'm saying that in order to be competitive at the national level you need to be one of those rating below your actual skill.

The APA system is broken and doesn't account for many things.

Lets take for example the fact that innings are counted into your SL....

Efren Reyes and Bustamante play a match. They each play 50 safeties on eachother. The game has 100+ innings. According to the APA that would mean that they partially suck.

The APA formula is based off of quality of opponent, innings, and win percentage among a few other 'top secret' stats. But the reality is that there is such a large disparrage between a 4 in Ohio and a 4 in Rhode Island that it lends itself to an unfair advantage for sandbaggers.

Sorry to derail your thread btw...
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um...safeties are taken into account.


trob said:
Typical apa ... Lol lose your first match. I don't give a shit what my rating is. My goal is to destroy everyone I play. Period. if that raises me and and I have to play tougher matches then so be it. I play to compete and be pushed to get better not sand bag.

Btw I've only played 6 matches in apa 9 ball. You can come In at a 4 but know players can be brought in higher. I was brought in at a 7 and expect to end up an 8.
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no...not typical apa. stop saying crap like that. sandbaggers are in every league. did you read the first response in this thread by me? i told him to strive to get better. how is that sandbagging?

Celophanewrap said:
I think if you play in the APA and your top priority is something other than to have fun then you're probably in the wrong organization. I love to play and I'd rather win than lose, but I play in the APA specifically because it's not a money league. I have found that the moment money gets put into the conversation the bastard quotient goes up about 1000 points, friendships go out the window and money changes the game completely. Some people are excellent money players, and some people see money and they lose their minds. I've been in the APA since it was the Busch league and I have never played in the National Tournament. Years ago when I was a win at all costs guy I was a premium sandbagger but trying to beat the system just takes too much work and thought. For those of you that think they know the APA formula I'd really like to know your resource. I'd like to think that I know it, I have written documentation to that effect and a very reliable source but it's huge pain in the ass to keep track of and in the end I could be wrong anyhow. If you feel like you need to lose a match to keep your S/L down play a player that's better than you are but play your best and normal game, but don't expect to change your S/L in one or two matches. The system isn't fair to everyone, I've played people from other parts of the country that were the same S/L as me that were so much better it was hard to believe, and some that were so bad that was also hard to believe. Sure the APA has it's issues, but it's what we have. I think if you're as serious as justadub seems to be then maybe you want to play in an organization other than the APA. As far as what skill level you are, play by yourself for a while, play honestly, play 8 ball. Break your rack and play against yourself like you'd play in a real match, if you're finishing your game in a typical 3 - 4 innings, you're probably about an S/L 4 -5, more than 6 innings you're likely an S/L 3ish, if you're breaking and running about 2 of every three or 4 racks it's safe to say you're a 6-7, your 9 ball S/L is typically an S/L higher than your 8, this isn't always true, but it's sort of a rule of thumb. Of course more goes into it that just that but that should give you some idea. But try to have fun, ignore the innings and the assholes, try to win, and hopefully you'll be playing with people that have something in their lives besides pool, that can grow old awful fast.
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When the APA is the only structured organization in the area then everybody wants to win.
 
zpele said:
I see your in denial... The system is broken because the APA has outgrown what it can handle. There is no way to police the system because there is no national standard for handicaps. The handicaps are all set by the local League Operator. This makes for inconsistencies literally across the board.

As such I really see no reason to not sandbag in the league. Personally I want to see some of the money I throw away each week.

Call it cheating if you want but I can absolutely guarantee what I said before.

Only 2% of APA members ever make it to Vegas. Of that 2% AT LEAST 75% of them are sandbagging.
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You come on here, state openly that you tell your players to cheat, and I'm the one in denial?

I predict great things in your new league....
 
Celophanewrap said:
I think if you play in the APA and your top priority is something other than to have fun then you're probably in the wrong organization. I love to play and I'd rather win than lose, but I play in the APA specifically because it's not a money league. I have found that the moment money gets put into the conversation the bastard quotient goes up about 1000 points, friendships go out the window and money changes the game completely. Some people are excellent money players, and some people see money and they lose their minds. I've been in the APA since it was the Busch league and I have never played in the National Tournament. Years ago when I was a win at all costs guy I was a premium sandbagger but trying to beat the system just takes too much work and thought. For those of you that think they know the APA formula I'd really like to know your resource. I'd like to think that I know it, I have written documentation to that effect and a very reliable source but it's huge pain in the ass to keep track of and in the end I could be wrong anyhow. If you feel like you need to lose a match to keep your S/L down play a player that's better than you are but play your best and normal game, but don't expect to change your S/L in one or two matches. The system isn't fair to everyone, I've played people from other parts of the country that were the same S/L as me that were so much better it was hard to believe, and some that were so bad that was also hard to believe. Sure the APA has it's issues, but it's what we have. I think if you're as serious as justadub seems to be then maybe you want to play in an organization other than the APA. As far as what skill level you are, play by yourself for a while, play honestly, play 8 ball. Break your rack and play against yourself like you'd play in a real match, if you're finishing your game in a typical 3 - 4 innings, you're probably about an S/L 4 -5, more than 6 innings you're likely an S/L 3ish, if you're breaking and running about 2 of every three or 4 racks it's safe to say you're a 6-7, your 9 ball S/L is typically an S/L higher than your 8, this isn't always true, but it's sort of a rule of thumb. Of course more goes into it that just that but that should give you some idea. But try to have fun, ignore the innings and the assholes, try to win, and hopefully you'll be playing with people that have something in their lives besides pool, that can grow old awful fast.
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I'm serious in that I want to play well, and to improve. I'm also seriously bad :p

APA is all we have here. I will make the best of it. What I won't do is to compromise my character, just because someone else feels its ok to cheat.

To the OP, don't let al this bickering scare you off. Every thread that discusses APA ends up like this, its as much a gauruntee a death and taxes. And to be fair, some of the stuff you hear has merit. It's just amplified significantly here. Every area is different, and every LO is different, so your experience will vary. There are over 200k people playing APA, so it can't be all bad.

What Maniac said about gauging your speed was spot on. Find anyone who plays in your league and match up a little, and that'll give you an idea.
 
zpele said:
I see your in denial... The system is broken because the APA has outgrown what it can handle. There is no way to police the system because there is no national standard for handicaps. The handicaps are all set by the local League Operator. This makes for inconsistencies literally across the board.

As such I really see no reason to not sandbag in the league. Personally I want to see some of the money I throw away each week.

Call it cheating if you want but I can absolutely guarantee what I said before.

Only 2% of APA members ever make it to Vegas. Of that 2% AT LEAST 75% of them are sandbagging.
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I agree to your statement completely, BUT I'll rather never make it to APA Nationals than to be counted in that 75%......Heck I'll just buy a vacation package for Vegas and have fun.....
 
zpele said:
As such I really see no reason to not sandbag in the league. Personally I want to see some of the money I throw away each week.

Call it cheating if you want but I can absolutely guarantee what I said before.

Only 2% of APA members ever make it to Vegas. Of that 2% AT LEAST 75% of them are sandbagging.
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This strikes me as funny, you are ok with throwing your money away weekly by dumping games and trying to not do your best? All this for the hopes that maybe you can go to nationals and win a 1/8th split of $25K ($3125 each). And that's just for 8 ball , 9 ball i think is maybe $15K.

I've found that a majority of people who think they are sandbagging are really just fooling themselves. Most are just teaching themselves how to lose and reinforcing the fact that its ok because they don't want to go up to the next skill level.

There's not enough money in it to justify dumping for a year to hopefully have a chance of going to vegas for a week to play and win. I'm sure if you figured in the amount of money you spend weekly on league dues, drinks (beer/soda), gas to and from home, that'll quickly eat up any money won in Vegas. And also don't forget that you gotta pay taxes on those winnings as well.
 
TheNewSharkster said:
Any handicapped league is going to have a problem with sandbaggers. APA is not pro-sandbagging. Its the players who choose to do it.
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Well they don't do anything to stop it and they surely know its going on so that kind of makes the apa pro sand bagging in my opinion.
 
trob said:
Well they don't do anything to stop it and they surely know its going on so that kind of makes the apa pro sand bagging in my opinion.
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i know of people that have been kicked out for sandbagging efforts. ;)
 
1)I'll say what I want lol it's an open forum

2) I've never seen sandbagging in bca or acs ...why would you? There's no handy caps.

rrich1 said:
um...safeties are taken into account.



no...not typical apa. stop saying crap like that. sandbaggers are in every league. did you read the first response in this thread by me? i told him to strive to get better. how is that sandbagging?


When the APA is the only structured organization in the area then everybody wants to win.
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Apa isnt terrible. I've met a lot of nice people there. It's nice to see a league where people who can barely put a few balls together can still compete and have a chance. On the other side it's sad to see those people don't have much of a chance to get better because no one want there handy Capp to raise lol for me it's just something to do over the summer. I play hard no matter what and try not to get into the politics.
 
trob said:
Well they don't do anything to stop it and they surely know its going on so that kind of makes the apa pro sand bagging in my opinion.
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I'm not trying to be a smart ass or anything like that so please don't take this the wrong way but what would you suggest they do to stop it?
 
daphish1 said:
This strikes me as funny, you are ok with throwing your money away weekly by dumping games and trying to not do your best? All this for the hopes that maybe you can go to nationals and win a 1/8th split of $25K ($3125 each). And that's just for 8 ball , 9 ball i think is maybe $15K.

I've found that a majority of people who think they are sandbagging are really just fooling themselves. Most are just teaching themselves how to lose and reinforcing the fact that its ok because they don't want to go up to the next skill level.

There's not enough money in it to justify dumping for a year to hopefully have a chance of going to vegas for a week to play and win. I'm sure if you figured in the amount of money you spend weekly on league dues, drinks (beer/soda), gas to and from home, that'll quickly eat up any money won in Vegas. And also don't forget that you gotta pay taxes on those winnings as well.
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For the record. While I may be a bit of a sandbagger- I don't really do it because I want to. It all started when I would get pressured by my teams to stay down so they could continue to field a team.

What I want is a system where sandbagging isn't an issue because there is no need for it.
 
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