Is This A Foul?

[THE SILENCER]

the object ball is frozen to the cushion. the cue ball is 4 inches directly in front of the cue ball. the ref, and everyone states out loud and clearly, the object ball is offically frozen to the cushion. you hit the object ball medium soft dead on into it's face, and here's what happens, the object ball leaves the cushion, double kisses the cue ball, and the object ball goes back and hits the original cushion it was frozen to. now, is that a foul? answer= i don't know, that's why i'm asking. i know, a lot of people will respond, yes, because the cue ball was already frozen, thus it had to be driven to a DIFFERENT cushion. i say, i don't think so, as long as the object ball comes off, and HITS the cushion, why then isn't that's all thats required, for a saftey allowed? these responses ought to be very intresting!

 

[tobyjoe]

Different cusion required. Why? Themz tha rulez. At least BCA rules...

 

[whitey]

the object ball is frozen to the cushion. the cue ball is 4 inches directly in front of the cue ball. the ref, and everyone states out loud and clearly, the object ball is offically frozen to the cushion. you hit the object ball medium soft dead on into it's face, and here's what happens, the object ball leaves the cushion, double kisses the cue ball, and the object ball goes back and hits the original cushion it was frozen to. now, is that a foul? answer= i don't know, that's why i'm asking. i know, a lot of people will respond, yes, because the cue ball was already frozen, thus it had to be driven to a DIFFERENT cushion. i say, i don't think so, as long as the object ball comes off, and HITS the cushion, why then isn't that's all thats required, for a saftey allowed? these responses ought to be very intresting!

Yup, I think its a foul according to the rule (BCA).
But I also think it shouldn't be a foul if the object ball CLEARLY left the rail and then returned to make contact to the rail.

So until the rule is changed I guess I go with the foul.

Whitey

 

[THE SILENCER]

that rule should be changed. after all, were doing what the original rule required of us. we are having a ball hit a cushion after contact. i could see how just touching a frozen object ball ever so lightly as to feather it, and the o.b. doesn't move at all, then yes, that's a foul, the cue ball didn't hit a cushion neither did the frozen o.b. but to have the o.b. COME OFF and then have it double kissed BACK INTO the cushion, what is this world comming to? next, it will be a foul to sneeze! maybe not.

 

[jjinfla]

Since there was a ref what did he rule? I take it you do not agree with his ruling.

I suppose the game took place under BCA rules. And the players agreed to abide by those rules. If so then I suggest you read rule 3.38. You will then see that since the OB did not hit a cushion attached to another rail this is a foul. (and the CB didn't hit a cushion either)

If the game was played under some other rules then you have to check that rule book.

And what would the ruling be if no one stated that the OB was frozen?
ANS: The OB would then be assumed to be not frozen and hence there would be no foul.

Jake

 

[pooltchr]

the object ball is frozen to the cushion. the cue ball is 4 inches directly in front of the cue ball. the ref, and everyone states out loud and clearly, the object ball is offically frozen to the cushion. you hit the object ball medium soft dead on into it's face, and here's what happens, the object ball leaves the cushion, double kisses the cue ball, and the object ball goes back and hits the original cushion it was frozen to. now, is that a foul? answer= i don't know, that's why i'm asking. i know, a lot of people will respond, yes, because the cue ball was already frozen, thus it had to be driven to a DIFFERENT cushion. i say, i don't think so, as long as the object ball comes off, and HITS the cushion, why then isn't that's all thats required, for a saftey allowed? these responses ought to be very intresting!

BCA rules 3.38 says it is a foul unless after the cb contacts the object ball one of the following happens...the cb contacts a cushion, a ball is pocketed, the ob contacts a cushion not attached to the same rail, or another object ball is driven to a cushion.

The case you described is a foul.

 

[nfty9er]

It should not even be a question

the object ball is frozen to the cushion. the cue ball is 4 inches directly in front of the cue ball. the ref, and everyone states out loud and clearly, the object ball is offically frozen to the cushion. you hit the object ball medium soft dead on into it's face, and here's what happens, the object ball leaves the cushion, double kisses the cue ball, and the object ball goes back and hits the original cushion it was frozen to. now, is that a foul? answer= i don't know, that's why i'm asking. i know, a lot of people will respond, yes, because the cue ball was already frozen, thus it had to be driven to a DIFFERENT cushion. i say, i don't think so, as long as the object ball comes off, and HITS the cushion, why then isn't that's all thats required, for a saftey allowed? these responses ought to be very intresting!

I assume you misstated you scenario(the cue basll is 4 inches in front of cue ball, how about object ball??)
So are you telling me under bca rules if i was playing one pocket and the cue ball was frozen to rail and i jacked up and drewthe cue ball back to the same rail it would be a foul. I dont think so. And dont calll it on me, this sounds like a rule someone would call in a bar room game. I have played that shot for a safety before, however only when cue ball is much further away.
a rail is a rail is a rail

 

[twiztid_cue]

I assume you misstated you scenario(the cue basll is 4 inches in front of cue ball, how about object ball??)
So are you telling me under bca rules if i was playing one pocket and the cue ball was frozen to rail and i jacked up and drewthe cue ball back to the same rail it would be a foul. I dont think so. And dont calll it on me, this sounds like a rule someone would call in a bar room game. I have played that shot for a safety before, however only when cue ball is much further away.
a rail is a rail is a rail

In that case there is no foul since it is the object ball that needs to be called frozen. from what i understand it doen't matter if the cue ball is frozen or not if you hit the object ball then the cue hits the rail it was frozen to its a legal shot. I know i would never call that on anyone and no one has called that on me.

 

[God]

Would it be considered another rail and therefore no foul if the object ball was frozen to a long rail, came off it and touched the same long rail but on the other side of the side pocket?

 

[Cue of Fury]

Would it be considered another rail and therefore no foul if the object ball was frozen to a long rail, came off it and touched the same long rail but on the other side of the side pocket?

I do not believe that would be a foul.

 

[whitey]

I do not believe that would be a foul.

I think it is a foul


BCA rules 3.38 says it is a foul unless after the cb contacts the object ball one of the following happens...the cb contacts a cushion, a ball is pocketed, the ob contacts a cushion not attached to the same rail, or another object ball is driven to a cushion.


Since the coshion is attached to the same rail.

 

[Cue of Fury]

Would the cushion on the other side of the pocket be considered attached to the same rail? Does a pool table have 4 rails or 6?

 

[nfty9er]

bca rules

In that case there is no foul since it is the object ball that needs to be called frozen. from what i understand it doen't matter if the cue ball is frozen or not if you hit the object ball then the cue hits the rail it was frozen to its a legal shot. I know i would never call that on anyone and no one has called that on me.

calling the ball frozen has nothing to do with the theory, either a ball, (cue or object,) can hit the same rail. a following thread states the rule that the object ball must hit another cushion not attached to that rail, but its o.k. for the cue ball? The way the rule reads its o.k. for the cue ball. glad i dont playin the bca.
to whoever asked there are six rails

 

[Cue of Fury]

I know, which is why it should not be a foul to have the OB hit the cushion on the other side of the side pocket.

 

[DoomCue]

That rule is in place specifically for Silencer's scenario. The rule makes sense to me; it forces a player to be a little more imaginative and take away a potential stalemate position. I would call this as a foul in a heartbeat.

-djb

 

[THE SILENCER]

intresting, i see, it is an official foul. it never happened to me, i was just curious, because i think it would have been a cool saftey play, to have the double kiss, when frozen, but i guess it's not legal, ok, thanks. p.s. as far as the question what if the cue ball goes to the other side of the side pocket, that would be legal, because it's a different cushion, but it shows your thinking! and isn't that what pool is all about?

 

[striker_3]

intresting, i see, it is an official foul. it never happened to me, i was just curious, because i think it would have been a cool saftey play, to have the double kiss, when frozen, but i guess it's not legal, ok, thanks. p.s. as far as the question what if the cue ball goes to the other side of the side pocket, that would be legal, because it's a different cushion, but it shows your thinking! and isn't that what pool is all about?

It doesn't matter if the CB contacts the same rail twice, that's why the ref only has to declare "frozen" for the OB.

 

[Ken in CT]

There are 4 rails and hitting the other cushion on the same long rail would be a foul.

Pool is not about thinking it is about pocketing balls. Too much thinking can lead to the wrong conclusion as has happened here.

Ken

 

[nfty9er]

checkmate

That rule is in place specifically for Silencer's scenario. The rule makes sense to me; it forces a player to be a little more imaginative and take away a potential stalemate position. I would call this as a foul in a heartbeat.

-djb

You would be imaginative if you did not bother to try that safety. What potential stalemate position? Leave me that shot and I will checkmate you with a safety 9 out of 10 times, you know that, if you play at all. Our game would be a stalemate if you called that a foul.

 

[nfty9er]

Think about this

There are 4 rails and hitting the other cushion on the same long rail would be a foul.

Pool is not about thinking it is about pocketing balls. Too much thinking can lead to the wrong conclusion as has happened here.

Ken

Gee if there are only 4 rails, how many cushions?
Last time I covered a table there were 6, how do six fit on 4 rails.