Is this Helmstetter cue a fake?

Merlinium

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I purchased this cue a while back with another cue and I was just wondering whether or not it was a fake (I personally have been unable to find another like it but have seen similar models), I got a good deal on the cues so I am not unhappy either way it was just more of a curiousity.

Apologies for the photos not being the best, the flash on the 2nd photo was a bit too bright but it does show up the helmstetter logo.
 

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Merlinium said:
I purchased this cue a while back with another cue and I was just wondering whether or not it was a fake (I personally have been unable to find another like it but have seen similar models), I got a good deal on the cues so I am not unhappy either way it was just more of a curiousity.

Apologies for the photos not being the best, the flash on the 2nd photo was a bit too bright but it does show up the helmstetter logo.

Looks real to me. I've owned two and have had several others in my possession.

Nice cue.
 
Koop said:
Looks real to me. I've owned two and have had several others in my possession.

Nice cue.
Ditto. I owned one a few years ago, and have seen quite a few. It looks similar to most I have seen, and it definitely looks like Richard's signature.
 
Mike Templeton said:
Ditto. I owned one a few years ago, and have seen quite a few. It looks similar to most I have seen, and it definitely looks like Richard's signature.


Lookin @ it nope it's real ..Did u pay a lot ??
 
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Merlinium said:
I purchased this cue a while back with another cue and I was just wondering whether or not it was a fake (I personally have been unable to find another like it but have seen similar models), I got a good deal on the cues so I am not unhappy either way it was just more of a curiousity.

Apologies for the photos not being the best, the flash on the 2nd photo was a bit too bright but it does show up the helmstetter logo.

I'm afraid it's a bad news, good news situation.

First the bad news: It's actually a fake Helmstetter made by Adam. They built these cues and stamped Sir Richard's name on the forearm. They also faked George Balabushka's and the famed Julio Strambolini's and a guy named John Spencer and even the old famous flying "W" himself.

Now the good news: Your cue is a derivative of the Helmstetter H-7, page 126 of the Blue Book. It retailed for $460 in the 1996 time period.

I would like to also add, these Helmstetter made by Adam were and are very fine cues.

Chris
 
Damn, you beat me to it. I had that exact cue. It is made by Adams, and yeah, it's a pretty decent cue. And, incidentally, I sold it to a friend to buy my Adams version Balabushka.
 
TATE said:
I'm afraid it's a bad news, good news situation.

First the bad news: It's actually a fake Helmstetter made by Adam. They built these cues and stamped Sir Richard's name on the forearm. They also faked George Balabushka's and the famed Julio Strambolini's and a guy named John Spencer and even the old famous flying "W" himself.

Now the good news: Your cue is a derivative of the Helmstetter H-7, page 126 of the Blue Book. It retailed for $460 in the 1996 time period.

I would like to also add, these Helmstetter made by Adam were and are very fine cues.

Chris

Thank you for the information, that applies to everyone who replied. It was really a win-win situation for me anyway, I quite like the cue.

I purchased it on ebay along with another cue and case and because I am in the UK and 9ball cues are not overly popular I got the 2 cues and a case and several accessories for just over £50 (the other cue is an Adam professional cue which is why I had my suspicions). The other cue was well used and the coating was chipped but the one I posted the pictures of is in excellent condition not a chip or scratch on it, I actually use the other cue for playing.
 
It's been a couple of years since I sold my Helmstetter. And now that I look at it more closely, that's not the cue I had. I had the Helmstetter RH-12. Not the exact same cue, but very, very similar. And, like I said before, a pretty decent cue for the money IMO.
 
TATE said:
I'm afraid it's a bad news, good news situation.

First the bad news: It's actually a fake Helmstetter made by Adam. They built these cues and stamped Sir Richard's name on the forearm.

Chris


Chris...are you sure these are "fakes" or just imperfections or cues with errors in them?? I don't see where Adam would produce "fakes" of Helmstetter cues when they were all tied in together anyway.

The cue he's showing usually had some sort of additional line inside the points to be one of their normal cues. Maybe somebody just screwed up on the assembly line and didn't put them in for some reason, but they still sold it instead of throwing it in the trash can.
 
drivermaker said:
Chris...are you sure these are "fakes" or just imperfections or cues with errors in them?? I don't see where Adam would produce "fakes" of Helmstetter cues when they were all tied in together anyway.

The cue he's showing usually had some sort of additional line inside the points to be one of their normal cues. Maybe somebody just screwed up on the assembly line and didn't put them in for some reason, but they still sold it instead of throwing it in the trash can.

No, I was just kidding around. As you know, Adam made Helmstetter cues (Richard owned Adam) and all those other lines I mentioned. I was joking and helped him to identify the cue - just a bad joke. I hope he didn't really think it's a fake.

I just sent him a PM in case he didn't realize I was kidding.

Chris
 
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TATE said:
No, I was just kidding around. As you know, Adam made Helmstetter cues (Richard owned Adam) and all those other lines I mentioned. I was joking and helped him to identify the cue - just a bad joke. I hope he didn't really think it's a fake.

I just sent him a PM in case he didn't realize I was kidding.

Chris


You had me going even though it wasn't April 1. (I can't wait to pull the wool over your eyes...it'll be a good one too) :D
 
TATE said:
No, I was just kidding around. As you know, Adam made Helmstetter cues (Richard owned Adam) and all those other lines I mentioned. I was joking and helped him to identify the cue - just a bad joke. I hope he didn't really think it's a fake.

I just sent him a PM in case he didn't realize I was kidding.

Chris

Thanks for the PM, I actually emailed the Adam Cue Company and received a reply saying it is from the Helmstetter 86 series, they said they would get back to me with the specific model number.

I am kind of interested in finding out more and so I am glad they are going to send me the model number, the problem I had was that I do not see many 9ball cues and I hadn't seen one like this before so wasn't sure if it was a fake or not.

All the same it was/is a cracking buy especially when you consider I got the 2 cues case and accessories for about $90.

I know very little about 9ball cues so just assumed that Tate's post was to point out that although the cues still bear the Helmstetter signature they are not personally made by Richard Helmstetter (kind of like John Parris snooker cues, most of them are no longer made by Parris himself but they do still carry his namebadge).
 
Merlinium said:
Thanks for the PM, I actually emailed the Adam Cue Company and received a reply saying it is from the Helmstetter 86 series, they said they would get back to me with the specific model number.

I am kind of interested in finding out more and so I am glad they are going to send me the model number, the problem I had was that I do not see many 9ball cues and I hadn't seen one like this before so wasn't sure if it was a fake or not.

All the same it was/is a cracking buy especially when you consider I got the 2 cues case and accessories for about $90.

I know very little about 9ball cues so just assumed that Tate's post was to point out that although the cues still bear the Helmstetter signature they are not personally made by Richard Helmstetter (kind of like John Parris snooker cues, most of them are no longer made by Parris himself but they do still carry his namebadge).

That's exactly right. Richard Helmstetter started Adam cue company in the early 1970's. In the mid 1960's, Richard was a cue maker. A few years later he was hired by National Chalk to get them into the cue business. He hired a couple of super star cue-makers, Ricco Cervantes, Craig Peterson, and Bob Meucci to make cues. They produced some very interesting cues in those few years. Craig Peterson went on to became a big league custom maker, and of course you know what Meucci created.

Helmstetter decided to branch off on his own in around 1970 and founded Adam cues. They started making high quality cues in Japan and made some great full splice cues, which were otherwise losing popularity at the time. The made parts for a lot of manufacturers besides just their own lines.

Helmstetter was a talented cue maker but his forte was sales and marketing. He was also good friends with Burton Spain, the foremost full splice cuemaker of those days. My first Adam cue was purchasd in 1984. Adam cues were good cues and a 4 pointer ran about $100 at the time.

The Helmstetter line was Adam's upscale line of cues. Hiow good were they? Burton Spain sold them, recommended them, and tuned them. Guess they were pretty good.

Helmstetter went on to fame and riches. He invented the Big Bertha Driver, which I think was the first big headed driver. Callaway was just a little company at the time. It put Callaway Golf on the map and set the golf industry on it's ears.

Here's a picture of a pretty rare cue. This is a National Cue made by Helmstetter's team. This cue was purchased in 1969 in Los Angeles. It came with the original receipt. It looks like an early Adam cue - and that makes sense.

The Helmstetter line of productions cues were the upscale Adam cues

So there - the whole story. Those old Helmstetter and Adam cues are good ones. And of course you got a great deal.


Chris

National_Cue.JPG
 
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TATE said:
That's exactly right. Richard Helmstetter started Adam cue company in the early 1970's. In the mid 1960's, Richard was a cue maker.

Helmstetter decided to branch off on his own in around 1970 and founded Adam cues. They started making high quality cues in Japan and made some great full splice cues, which were otherwise losing popularity at the time. The made parts for a lot of manufacturers besides just their own lines.

Helmstetter was a talented cue maker but his forte was sales and marketing. He was also good friends with Burton Spain, the foremost full splice cuemaker of those days.

The Helmstetter line was Adam's upscale line of cues. Hiow good were they? Burton Spain sold them, recommended them, and tuned them. Guess they were pretty good.

So there - the whole story. Those old Helmstetter and Adam cues are good ones. And of course you got a great deal.

Chris


I'd also like to add that the older Adam or Helmstetter cues looked great, felt great and played great. I've had an early to mid 80's Adam Ritz which I bought new that feels and plays as good as ANY cue out there, production or custom.

Every time someone asks "What cue should I buy", I can't believe the Helmstetter/Balabushka/Mosconi Collection name doesn't come up because these cues are SUPER...in every respect.

The buyer and originator of this thread got one hell of a purchase and ALL of you should own at least ONE of those cues made by Adam or Helmstetter...new ones included.
 
Hey Chris...btw, I forgot to mention this in my previous post and I'm sure you'll be interested somewhere in the future.

I've heard from a very reliable source, that their cues are going to start being produced back in the USA and, they're also going to start making them as a FULL SPLICE CUE!! This is awesome!!

I don't know what this will do to the pricing, but why anyone would prefer buying a cue from some "no-name" that hasn't a clue on how to start building a full splice cue would want to do that because the word "custom" is on their business card.

Sure....I'd want some POS sneaky pete or plain jane over one of these. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
I just got the confirmation that is an Helmstetter 86-12, really surprised that it is that old and still in such good condition, the previous owner must have taken great care of it (the other cue was quite beat up) and I intend to do the same, I am beginning to feel that I should have worn a mask when I got the cues for that price, the worst part is that £25 of the cost was courier delivery (the receipt said he paid 19.88 for the postage) so he would have made less than £30 (about $50) off of the sale.
 
if you want to look at Adam/Helmstetter cues, go to adam-japan.com ,,,click on the writing on the left column, you should be able to navigate (even if you don't read Japanese).................jflan
 
drivermaker said:
I'd also like to add that the older Adam or Helmstetter cues looked great, felt great and played great. I've had an early to mid 80's Adam Ritz which I bought new that feels and plays as good as ANY cue out there, production or custom.

Every time someone asks "What cue should I buy", I can't believe the Helmstetter/Balabushka/Mosconi Collection name doesn't come up because these cues are SUPER...in every respect.

The buyer and originator of this thread got one hell of a purchase and ALL of you should own at least ONE of those cues made by Adam or Helmstetter...new ones included.
I've owned two of the new Adams Helmstetters and presently have one of the new Adams Balabushkas, which I think plays great. Do you know how the Adams Hall of Fame cues play? There are several Mosconi replica cues (Adams Balabushka and Szamboti) that are great looking cues.
 
Does anybody know?

A patron just bought a Helmstetter (Adams) with his name on the cue as usual however on the butt is printed the letter P. Does anyone know what that signfies. I have never seen that. I have an original by Helmstetter himself from 1980. After 25 years the shaft finally cracked. Always loved that cue.
 
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