Is your best game one you actually don't prefer?

[Mensabum]

Especially if the balls are close, it's a good way to stop the cue ball.

Used that a lot, and still do, in 14:1. At least that's where I learned how effective it can be. It can be a large part of position play, especially double position. Put your opponent behind a ball should you miss. Lock that bad boy tight against another ball so he's either shooting over it, or around it. Not. BIH.
Happy birthday. Lol.

 

[Bavafongoul]

I’ve played 14.1, 8 ball, 9 ball, 10 ball, 1 pocket, rotation, 3 cushion, 3 ball, bank pool longer than most readers.
The summer of 1961 when I was 15 years old I played pool for the first time and I’ve been addicted ever since.

After the movie, The Hustler, was released, the following summer I played lots of pool since I turned 16 yrs. old.
At that time, you had to be 16 yrs. old in order to be unescorted by a parent, or guardian, at a NYC pool hall.

In the intervening years until now, I’ve played a lot of pool in different cities. Without a doubt, 9 ball is a gambler’s
game. It’s like pulling a card for a straight on the 7th card in stud poker. You can still win by missing the shot….Duh?

Get real…..You can win a game without any skill whatsoever by blasting away when you are hooked without any
pocket to shoot at and either accidentally pocket the next ball and keep shooting or better yet, pocket the 9 ball.

You can’t do that shit in any of the other pool games I’ve played over more than 6 decades of pool playing. In other
words, 9 ball involves skill and slop since you can win by pocketing the 9 in a different pocket than you intended.

Any time you can win by missing the shot or just hitting the lowest number ball on the table as hard as you can
hoping any ball drops in any pocket, especially the 9 ball, is a game of chance just like roulette. No skills required.

 

[tomatoshooter]

Used that a lot, and still do, in 14:1. At least that's where I learned how effective it can be. It can be a large part of position play, especially double position. Put your opponent behind a ball should you miss. Lock that bad boy tight against another ball so he's either shooting over it, or around it. Not. BIH.
Happy birthday. Lol.

Bumping into balls is also necessary to manufacture a break ball.

hoping any ball drops in any pocket, especially the 9 ball, is a game of chance just like roulette. No skills required.

You'll still get a lot further with skills than without. And understanding the likelihood of different lucky outcomes is a skill in itself.

 

[Bavafongoul]

Say what you will about the legends of the past but consistency was their strength, especially Mr. Mosconi.
His list of championships in the 40’s and 50’s is more than remarkable. And he didn’t get there by slopping
OBs in the intended pockets or better yet, in the wrong pocket like in 9 ball that also lets you keep shooting.

His 14.1 play was far and away one of a kind and he didn’t explode the rack open unless it was a dead shot.
And even then it was a controlled, measured stroke. He wanted to contain the area where the balls in the rack
would spread. His approach was about precision, controlling position outcome & leaving an easy break shot.

But then again, 9 ball was not the measure of a pool player’s skills back then or even now, which is my opinion.
It is a fast game and anyone can win on just one single stroke banging OB balls as hard as you can & dropping
the 9 ball in any one of the 6 pockets you can’t even predict or anticipate it going into. Just hit the OBs really hard.

That was not the measure of a pool player’s skills 75-100 years ago and it sure isn’t now. You can take shortcuts
by shooting an easy combo 9 right after the break shot. You can’t short cut the other pool games like in 9 ball.
Some folks are still in denial about luck becoming a determining factor in the outcome of an important 9 Ball match.

Question: When you miss an easy shot on the winning OB but jaw the pocket & hanging it on the pocket shelf, was
that your bad luck? If you think so, then does your opponent think….Wow, I was lucky he missed that shot. Which is it?

In 9 ball, when your opponent shoots the 3 ball, goes 2 rails, hits the 5 ball rolling it into a 7/9 combo dropping the 9
to win, now was that skill or luck? If it was luck, was it his good luck or your bad luck? That doesn’t happen in 14.1.

 

[tomatoshooter]

Say what you will about the legends of the past but consistency was their strength, especially Mr. Mosconi.
His list of championships in the 40’s and 50’s is more than remarkable. And he didn’t get there by slopping
OBs in the intended pockets or better yet, in the wrong pocket like in 9 ball that also lets you keep shooting.

His 14.1 play was far and away one of a kind and he didn’t explode the rack open unless it was a dead shot.
And even then it was a controlled, measured stroke. He wanted to contain the area where the balls in the rack
would spread to. His game was about precision, controlling position outcome & leaving an easy break shot.

But then again, 9 ball was not the measure of a pool player’s skills back then or even now which is my opinion.
It is a fast game and anyone can win on just one single stroke banging OB balls as hard as you can & dropping
the 9 ball in any one of the 6 pockets you can’t even predict or anticipate it going into. Just hit the OBs really hard.

That was not the measure of a pool player’s skills 75-100 years ago and it sure isn’t now. You can take shortcuts
by shooting an easy combo 9 right after the break shot. You can’t short cut the other pool games like in 9 ball.
Some folks are still in denial about luck becoming a determining factor in the outcome of a important pool match.

Question: When you miss an easy shot on the winning OB but jaw the pocket and hanging on the pocket shelf, was
that your bad luck? If you think so, then does your opponent think….Wow, I got lucky on that last shot. Which is it?

In 9 ball, when your opponent shoots the 3 ball, goes 2 rails, hits the 5 ball rolling it into a 7/9 combo dropping the 9
to win, now was that skill or luck? If it was luck, was it his good luck or your bad luck? That doesn’t happen in 14.1.

No doubt, 9 ball has a few wild cards in the deck, and the role of luck is reduced in 14.1. There's still a measure of luck in how the cue ball opens up the rack. Guys like Mosconi could minimize the variables and also guarantee that they had a good option so they could fix any variables that came out bad.

 

[Bavafongoul]

No doubt, 9 ball has a few wild cards in the deck, and the role of luck is reduced in 14.1. There's still a measure of luck in how the cue ball opens up the rack. Guys like Mosconi could minimize the variables and also guarantee that they had a good option so they could fix any variables that came out bad.

I’m in agreement except for certain games like one pocket and 14.1, both of which are soft breaks that are intended
to leave no shot or else a very difficult long cut shot or bank by your opponent if he chooses not to play a return safety.
There is no calling a ball & pocket on the opening break shot. It’s about leaving your opponent far away from any shot.

It is predictable on the opening break shot; the only question is whether it is played well, poorly or the player fouls. To
my way of thinking, luck isn’t associated in any way with the opening break examples I described but it does in 9 ball.

 

[Mensabum]

I’ve played 14.1, 8 ball, 9 ball, 10 ball, 1 pocket, rotation, 3 cushion, 3 ball, bank pool longer than most readers.
The summer of 1961 when I was 15 years old I played pool for the first time and I’ve been addicted ever since.

After the movie, The Hustler, was released, the following summer I played lots of pool since I turned 16 yrs. old.
At that time, you had to be 16 yrs. old in order to be unescorted by a parent, or guardian, at a NYC pool hall.

In the intervening years until now, I’ve played a lot of pool in different cities. Without a doubt, 9 ball is a gambler’s
game. It’s like pulling a card for a straight on the 7th card in stud poker. You can still win by missing the shot….Duh?

Get real…..You can win a game without any skill whatsoever by blasting away when you are hooked without any
pocket to shoot at and either accidentally pocket the next ball and keep shooting or better yet, pocket the 9 ball.

You can’t do that shit in any of the other pool games I’ve played over more than 6 decades of pool playing. In other
words, 9 ball involves skill and slop since you can win by pocketing the 9 in a different pocket than you intended.

Any time you can win by missing the shot or just hitting the lowest number ball on the table as hard as you can
hoping any ball drops in any pocket, especially the 9 ball, is a game of chance just like roulette. No skills required.

No skill required??
Most 'Players' I know, never roll the cheese or rearrange the furniture. They break and run. Repeat. I'll take a run out over a combo or carom on the cheese every time. Unless it's hanging in the jaws. Lol.
That takes a special skill set. I think we were all having fun talking about rolling the money and got carried away a tad, but no reason to denigrate arguably the favorite money game of all time. All games contain imperfect pieces and involve some form of chaos. That's why I love pool. No matter how hard I try to control that chaos, per se, it always finds a way to humble me and remind me of why I enjoy the lifelong struggle towards perfection at it, knowing I'll never get there.

 

[Chili Palmer]

No skill required??
Most 'Players' I know, never roll the cheese or rearrange the furniture. They break and run. Repeat. I'll take a run out over a combo or carom on the cheese every time. Unless it's hanging in the jaws. Lol.
That takes a special skill set. I think we were all having fun talking about rolling the money and got carried away a tad, but no reason to denigrate arguably the favorite money game of all time. All games contain imperfect pieces and involve some form of chaos. That's why I love pool. No matter how hard I try to control that chaos, per se, it always finds a way to humble me and remind me of why I enjoy the lifelong struggle towards perfection at it, knowing I'll never get there.

Agreed. I mentioned earlier that riding the nine is not a winning strategy. There is a certain factor of luck in 9B, that doesn't mean that's why I enjoy playing the game.

 

[Bavafongoul]

I think some folks are missing the point. Any billiards game when masterfully played is usually accomplished by a
talented, highly skilled player. And they make it look easy too avoiding the toughest of shots because of the great
control of the cue ball. I willingly concede that. In fact, let me go so far as I enthusiastically endorse that because
seeing a player pocket balls and almost effortlessly play the table in flawless fashion is truly a beautiful thing to see.

But you can’t deny the fact if that player were to say miss say the 7 ball but hooks their opponent leaving no shot
so the opponent just bangs the CB trying to make any contact on the 7 ball and successfully does. So much so it
banks off a side rail and knocks the 9 ball in the opposite corner pocket never even considered as a pocket to play.

I believe that would be marked as a loss for the more highly skilled player and a win for the lucky son of a bitch player.

And if winner breaks, the player then goes & pockets the 9 ball, in just 2 strokes that player is up 2-0. And with a big
spot in a handicap tournament, that could be enough to advance and send the much better skilled player to the loser’s
bracket in double elimination. Now the way I see things, that’s either a lot of good luck or bad luck but it was luck that
decided the outcome of the match. And if I had to make the call, it was one player’s incredible good luck to advance.

This doesn’t mean that winning player will go far in the tournament. Heck, I would expect a better skilled player would
win. But if the game was 8 ball, 10 ball, 1 pocket, 14.1, that shit can’t happen. Sure, you can concoct some scenario
where luck decided the outcome in any pool game. But come on now, nothing compares with the random opportunity
to win a game or match by pocketing the 9 ball in any pocket by accident. If that isn’t pure luck, then nothing is, IMO.

 

[Chili Palmer]

I think some folks are missing the point. Any billiards game when masterfully played is usually accomplished by a
talented, highly skilled player. And they make it look easy too avoiding the toughest of shots because of the great
control of the cue ball. I willingly concede that. In fact, let me go so far as I enthusiastically endorse that because
seeing a player pocket balls and almost effortlessly play the table in flawless fashion is truly a beautiful thing to see.

But you can’t deny the fact if that player were to say miss say the 7 ball but hooks their opponent leaving no shot
so the opponent just bangs the CB trying to make any contact on the 7 ball and successfully does. So much so it
banks off a side rail and knocks the 9 ball in the opposite corner pocket never even considered as a pocket to play.

I believe that would be marked as a loss for the more highly skilled player and a win for the lucky son of a bitch player.

And if winner breaks, the player then goes & pockets the 9 ball, in just 2 strokes that player is up 2-0. And with a big
spot in a handicap tournament, that could be enough to advance and send the much better skilled player to the loser’s
bracket in double elimination. Now the way I see things, that’s either a lot of good luck or bad luck but it was luck that
decided the outcome of the match. And if I had to make the call, it was one player’s incredible good luck to advance.

This doesn’t mean that winning player will go far in the tournament. Heck, I would expect a better skilled player would
win. But if the game was 8 ball, 10 ball, 1 pocket, 14.1, that shit can’t happen. Sure, you can concoct some scenario
where luck decided the outcome in any pool game. But come on now, nothing compares with the random opportunity
to win a game or match by pocketing the 9 ball in any pocket by accident. If that isn’t pure luck, then nothing is, IMO.

I'm not sure what the OP's original intent, or reasoning behind this thread, was but in my posts you'll notice I indicate my statements are made based on a proficient player and banger's need not apply. If someone wants to have a serious conversation about pool, or play a respectable game of pool, then a riding the 9 philosophy , or whack a ball, won't go over well with me. Sure, I have some fun when I'm just banging balls but if it's an actual game that matters the last thing I want to do is send the CB, or any other ball, on some random path I don't have control over, that never ends well. I've spent too many decades honing my skills to even bother with that conversation. I played APA for a few years and have played countless people like this and the result is always the same. If someone is a ride the 9 kind of person but wants to improve their shot selection, execution, and CB control then I'm willing to have that conversation or play that game.

 

[Mensabum]

I think some folks are missing the point. Any billiards game when masterfully played is usually accomplished by a
talented, highly skilled player. And they make it look easy too avoiding the toughest of shots because of the great
control of the cue ball. I willingly concede that. In fact, let me go so far as I enthusiastically endorse that because
seeing a player pocket balls and almost effortlessly play the table in flawless fashion is truly a beautiful thing to see.

But you can’t deny the fact if that player were to say miss say the 7 ball but hooks their opponent leaving no shot
so the opponent just bangs the CB trying to make any contact on the 7 ball and successfully does. So much so it
banks off a side rail and knocks the 9 ball in the opposite corner pocket never even considered as a pocket to play.

I believe that would be marked as a loss for the more highly skilled player and a win for the lucky son of a bitch player.

And if winner breaks, the player then goes & pockets the 9 ball, in just 2 strokes that player is up 2-0. And with a big
spot in a handicap tournament, that could be enough to advance and send the much better skilled player to the loser’s
bracket in double elimination. Now the way I see things, that’s either a lot of good luck or bad luck but it was luck that
decided the outcome of the match. And if I had to make the call, it was one player’s incredible good luck to advance.

This doesn’t mean that winning player will go far in the tournament. Heck, I would expect a better skilled player would
win. But if the game was 8 ball, 10 ball, 1 pocket, 14.1, that shit can’t happen. Sure, you can concoct some scenario
where luck decided the outcome in any pool game. But come on now, nothing compares with the random opportunity
to win a game or match by pocketing the 9 ball in any pocket by accident. If that isn’t pure luck, then nothing is, IMO.

Some might get the impression you don't like 9 ball. Lol.
That very thing, pocketing the 9 in any pocket has kept the pens full of willing lambs led to the slaughter. Made a lot of money on that skewed viewpoint. The casinos have proven it time and again that no matter how lucky you get, the house still wins. Doesn't mean it's not exciting for those involved.
The very fact that there are 6 holes and an element of chaos involved (luck) in any pool game, has drawn more folks to the table than by any other means. Even w the luck element, it all comes out in the wash. Otherwise nobodys' would be winning all the 9 ball tournaments.

 

[tomatoshooter]

But you can’t deny the fact if that player were to say miss say the 7 ball but hooks their opponent leaving no shot
so the opponent just bangs the CB trying to make any contact on the 7 ball and successfully does. So much so it
banks off a side rail and knocks the 9 ball in the opposite corner pocket never even considered as a pocket to play.

I believe that would be marked as a loss for the more highly skilled player and a win for the lucky son of a bitch player.

And if winner breaks, the player then goes & pockets the 9 ball, in just 2 strokes that player is up 2-0. And with a big
spot in a handicap tournament, that could be enough to advance and send the much better skilled player to the loser’s

That's a lot of ifs. The guy blasting and hoping for a hit on the seven is much more likely to give up ball in hand, or if he gets lucky and contacts the seven, sell out the rack. I suppose a weaker player is slightly more likely to get lucky because if what he intends to happen happens less, then the unintentional must happen more. Luck can affect the outcome but several things have to go the right way for it to overcome much of a skill advantage.

 

[Bavafongoul]

Some might get the impression you don't like 9 ball. Lol.
That very thing, pocketing the 9 in any pocket has kept the pens full of willing lambs led to the slaughter. Made a lot of money on that skewed viewpoint. The casinos have proven it time and again that no matter how lucky you get, the house still wins. Doesn't mean it's not exciting for those involved.
The very fact that there are 6 holes and an element of chaos involved (luck) in any pool game, has drawn more folks to the table than by any other means. Even w the luck element, it all comes out in the wash. Otherwise nobodys' would be winning all the 9 ball tournaments.

Mensabum, you may be onto something…...let me give that a little more thought……OK, you’re right.

I play 9 ball and compete in 9 ball events but neither denies nor confirms my love or disdain for 9 ball.

Let me put it this way, if I only had one game to play, it wouldn’t be 9 ball. In fact, I’d rather play 14.1,
8 or 10 ball, rotation, or bank pool. I find one pocket too slow and 9 ball too lucky but I still play both.

IMO, the best test of your stroke skills is 3 cushion billiards where there’s little opportunity for luck or slop.

 

[straightline]

IMO, the best test of your stroke skills is 3 cushion billiards where there’s little opportunity for luck or slop.

Almost agree. The big ball principle is always in play. There seems not to be any call cushion (number of contacts) events either. I'd like to see at least an all threes tournament.